SF-LOVERS Digest Monday, 15 Feb 1993 Volume 18 : Issue 102 Today's Topics: Books - Anvil & Benford & Brin & Burroughs (2 msgs) & Card & Eddings & Effinger & Herbert (4 msgs) & Hogan & King --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Feb 93 18:25:05 GMT From: ca572@cleveland.freenet.edu (Mark L. Stackpole) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Christopher Anvil I'm a sucker for Anvil's stories too. One of his best however was first published in Galaxy, not Analog. It's called "Mind Partner" and forshadows a lot of PK Dick's themes, particularly "We Can Remember it for you Wholesale". I think it dates from 1961. Of his recent stories, there's a good one in Analog some 3-5 years back which speculated what if the development of the automobile industry was just like how PCs were developed. (Road which needed tire adapters for different car models, etc.) ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 21:13:59 GMT From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Benford Ross Smith (alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz) writes: >(BTW, does anyone know if Benford has written/is planning to write any >more books in the GSR/TOL series?) Yes, there are two more books. They cover the first contact between humans and the mechanized lifeforms. They are: In The Ocean Of Night 1977 Across The Sea Of Suns 1984 These two form a set, much as the other two do. A lot of time passes between these two and the GSR/TOL pair. I liked these books, but the "hero" has to be one of the most angst-ridden characters in SF. Dave lampson@pulse.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 03:24:20 GMT From: zink@panix.com (David Zink) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Brin: The Uplift Wait (was Re: How do you lose a planet?) solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes: >You know how Brin could drive us all into a blind, screaming fury? After >years of wait, he finally releases the fourth Uplift book... Was there ever a book or story about the needle event so prominent in Sundiver? ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 93 17:22:45 GMT From: john@sparc1.dsra.com (John Kohler) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Burroughs - John Carter of Mars David.Chappell of Trinity College posted a question asking about the 11th book in Burrough's John Carter Mars series. Yes, the 11th book is called "John Carter of Mars" (first printed in US 1965), it is the combined work of the following two stories: "John Carter and the Giant of Mars", January 1941 Amazing Stories Magazine "Skeleton Men of Jupiter", February 1943 Amazing Stories Magazine. It was a 2-part series, albeit drawn out over 2 years. It was indeed written by Burroughs, who died in 1950. You can find a copy published by Del Rey/Ballantine in your used book store. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 22:42:40 GMT From: Mark_Dakins@novell.com (Mark Dakins) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: ERB Mars Series number 11 (long) David.Chappell@mail.trincoll.edu (David Chappell) writes: >Does anybody know anything about a book entitled "John Carter of Mars"? >It is published by Del Rey as volume 11 of Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars >series. > >One advertisement I saw indicated that there are only ten books in the >Mars series. > >The 11th book is actually two very short novels entitled "John Carter and >the Giant of Mars" and "The Skeleton Men of Mars". I think you mean "Skeleton Men of Jupiter." >They have copyright dates of 1940 and 1942 respectibly. The copyright >holder is Ziff Davis. > >Though the name Edgar Rice Burroughs appears as the author, the stories >are so very different from the other Mars books and are of such poor >quality that I suspect a ghost writer. Who wrote these stories? I will quote part of the introduction to my copy of _John Carter of Mars_. Ballantine Books, copyright 1964, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. The introduction is by Richard A. Lupoff. "_John Carter and the Giants of Mars_ (or Giant for short) first appeared in AMAZING STORIES Magazine for January, 1941, and created an immediate furore. Dozens of readers wrote to the magazine challenging the authenticity of the story, which was strongly defended by Raymond A. Palmer, the editor. The complaints were based mainly on two points. ... In planning the current book, JOHN CARTER OF MARS, it was my hope to verify or refute the charges against _Giant of Mars_ once and for all. In order to do this, I wrote directly to Ray Palmer and asked him outright whether (a) the story had actually been written by Edgar Rice Burroughs, and (b) if it had, whether or not Palmer or anyone else had tampered with the manuscript before publication: or (c) if it had _not_ been written by Burroughs, who _did_ write the story. Simultaneously, I wrote to Hulbert Burroughs, the author's son, and asked him to check through his father's files and records, and determine if possible (a) whether his father did write _Giant_ and (b) if he did, whether a copy of the manuscript still existed for purposes of comparison with the magazine version. Palmer's reply was the first to arrive, and in it he stated that (a) the story had indeed been written by Burroughs and (b) no one had changed it _in any way_ prior to publication. Unfortunately, according to Palmer, the manuscript had been kept in the files of the Ziff-Davis Publishing Company, publisher of AMAZING STORIES, and had been destroyed some years later in a records clearance move. An initial reply from Hulbert Burroughs was equally mystifying - a search of the records of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., had produced an entry for the sale of _John Carter and the Giant of Mars_ to Ziff-Davis. But an examination of ERB's notebook, ... did _not_ uncover the expected entry for _Giant_. ... I was surprised and gratified to receive a further communication from Hulbert Burroughs, unravelling the mystery ... The story which was pieced together is this: In 1940 the Whitman Publishing Company ... asked ERB for a "Big Little Book" featuring John Carter. ... Edgar Rice Burroughs ... asked his son John Coleman Burroughs ... to collaborate with him in producing the story... At the same time, Ray Palmer of AMAZING STORIES was seeking a new Barsoomian adventure from ERB, to feature in his magazine. Taking the as-yet unpublished collaboration as his basis, Edgar Rice Burroughs lengthened it by some 5000 words and adapted it "upward" for adult readership, producing finally _John Carter and the Giant of Mars_." He goes on to say that there is no such mystery about _The Skeleton Men of Jupiter_ which was certainly written by ERB. Hope you found this interesting. Mark Dakins ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 05:58:21 GMT From: Robert.N.Stonehill@dartmouth.edu (Robert N. Stonehill) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Card's _The Call of Earth_ is out I just finished The Memory of Earth today. It was a pretty good book, but disappointing from Card. His work is usually much better. The characterization was of course excellent, but the plot and scenarios were a bit cliched. Read it anyway, though, it's better than most science fiction. I can't wait to read the second book. robert.stonehill@dartmouth.edu ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 93 17:16:42 GMT From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Eddings: Domes of Fire -- Speculation (minor spoilers) I read Eddings's "Domes of Fire" - the first novel in his 'Tamuli' trilogy. (Don't look at me like that. I knew what I was doing. I found myself in desperate need of some good fluff to read, and Lord knows, this qualifies!) Reading a new Eddings novel is a lot like rereading an old one - something I've done often enough. Domes of Fire opens a few years after the end of the Ellenium. There is considerable unrest in the land. Social unrest is being stirred up, and there seems to be some unsavory magic at work. Then an envoy arrives from the next continent over (think of it as 'boundless Malloria' and you'll get the general idea) to ask for help: The same troubles are at work there. The rest, as they say (or, if they don't, they ought to), is travelogue, as our party of heroes sight-sees and banters its way across that continent, to the court of the Tamuli emperor. Sure enough, some force - the evidence suggests that both mortals and divinities are at work, is stirring up trouble. The first book ends with a decision to recover Bhelliom - the sapphire rose they went to all that trouble to ditch at the end of the Ellenium. Speculation time. Pulling together the following observations: - It was the Styric wizard Zalasta who suggesting asking Sparhawk for help - Zalasta virtually threw a fit when he found out that Sparhawk no longer had Bhelliom - I'm reasonably sure that the 'h' in 'Bhelliom' is silent - The decision to retrieve Bhelliom is made against Aphrael's better judgment - Ehlana takes an instant dislike to Zalasta - I'm inclined to consider the 'h' in Ehlana silent as well - Aphrael decides, on intuition, not to trust Zalasta with her secret - Zalasta's magic is theurgic - he calls upon a God or Goddess - It is a Styric peculiarity that different Styrics worship different Gods or Goddesses from among the thousand Younger Gods, and it seems to be poor manners to ask which - At the end of Domes of Fire, Sparhawk's latest nemesis makes an apparently unmotivated appearance to tell him what God he is facing, and to tell him that all he has encountered so far has been meant only to test him - There is evidence that there is a traitor in their midst As you've doubtlessly gathered, my conclusion is that Zalasta is their traitor, that he worked to bring Sparhawk over because he wanted to get his hands on Bhelliom, and that there is a good chance that it's not one of the Styric Gods that he's calling upon to work his spells. Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 93 20:48:20 GMT From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: George Alec Effinger >Effinger has a pre-existing condition leaving him uninsurable...There is a >fan/writer fund which has benefitted Effinger and other writers who cannot >get insurance to cover prexisting/and or excluded conditions. I don't have >the address or contact. The George Alec Effinger Medical Fund c/o Niagara Falls Science Fiction Association PO Box 500, Bridge Station Niagara Falls, NY 14305 Different conventions and clubs have had various fundraisers. I think NFSFA is still running their "Worldcon for a Buck" Raffle - you might want to send a self-addressed stamped envelope to that address and ask if a raffle is currently being run or not. The next fundraiser I know about is a "Punday Benefit" at Boskone on Sunday, February 21. lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 03:11:01 GMT From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Frank Herbert lucas@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM writes: >Well, I've found that many of the people who saw Paul Atreidies as a hero >in DUNE didn't like the other five for the following reasons... The problem isn't that Paul is an absolute schnook as a hero (though he is), the problem is that after the Old Duke dies and Thufir Hawat changes jobs, there isn't a _single_ likeable person in any of the Dune books. The first Dune novel got by on intertia after the Sardaukar landing; the rest never got moving at all. They never get moving because there is no one in any of these books to _care_ about. So somebody tell me: what do you find so laudable about all those Dune books? Peter Cash cash@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 03:07:23 GMT From: zink@panix.com (David Zink) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Frank Herbert Wilson.M.Clements@dartmouth.edu (Wilson M. Clements) writes: >Actually the books are The Lazerus Effect, The Ascension Factor, and The >Jesus Incident. Whipping Star is also very good. So is Hellstroms' Hive. Whipping Star and The Dosadi Experiment also form a set, along with a number of short stories involving the Bureau of Sabotage, especially (check spelling) special agent Jorj McKie, the human admitted to the Gowachin Bar. Does anyone have a list of the stories, and where to find them? I have lost all my Herbert books (grumble) so I need to find them again. David Zink zink@panix.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 20:32:14 GMT From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Frank Herbert Peter Cash (cash@convex.com) writes: >So somebody tell me: what do you find so laudable about all those Dune >books? Well, even if the characters aren't all that sympathetic, they are sometimes well-drawn. Also, the world-building continues to be interesting, eventhough most of the best work was in Dune. Dave lampson@pulse.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 93 00:19:01 GMT From: atlantis!aaron@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Frank Herbert lucas@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM wrote: >Well, I've found that many of the people who saw Paul Atreidies as a hero >in DUNE didn't like the other five for the following reasons, see if they >are yours as well, (not saying that they are, but still, this may make for >an interesting experiment, providing I'm not flamed off the net!) Well, maybe that had something to do with it. I didn't see Paul Atriedes[sp?] as a hero, but then I was exposed to the Dune boardgame before the book, and always had better luck as Harkonnen. ;-} >2. I didn't think CHILDREN OF DUNE was as bad as Dune M, > But I still didn't like it 'cause Alia's a lamer, and > all of the good guys in the first book are bad. Heavens! People switched sides? Or is it perhaps that Herbert was being a bit more sophisticated than "good guy/bad guy" characters? Alia's arguable, but I can probably agree with your dislike of her... >3. I didn't like GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE, because Leto turned > bad, and because the end was lame. Am I the only one in existence whose favourite Dune book is God Emperor? Maybe this is just proof of Eric's thesis (which I just read), that it's not the despots that take over the system, but the system which tends to create despots. (Apologies, Eric, for mangling and oversimplifying your thesis...) But, in a nutshell, Leto became the person he was as a result of living so long, and being no longer quite human... If you dislike it because he became a "bad guy", then perhaps you should go back to your Eddings... >4. I didn't like HERETICS OF DUNE because...... > a. Too much sex! (I HAVE heard this one, funny as it may seem!) > b. Dune got destroyed! :( Oh, no! Yes, I see the trend in these "dislikes". It's the general lack of happy endings in post-Dune books! That's it! Well, I take a fiendish and perverse joy in downbeat endings, irony, frustrated expectations, and the like. I don't like Heretics of Dune, but that's only because I have the severest problem remembering what it was about for more than a few days after I read it. IMHO it's by far the weakest. >5. Didn't like CHAPTERHOUSE: DUNE because the END SUCKED! > (I'm sure everyone agrees with 5! :) ) Well, to be fair, Herbert never got to write the seventh novel that was being cried out for at the end of Chapterhouse. We'll have to go to Morpheus' Library and check it out sometime. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 93 21:13:59 GMT From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Hogan sivo@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Louis Sivo) writes: >Another author I like that is James P. Hogan. He has lately been writing >near future techno-thrillers. But two of his earlier books that I liked >were: (Two Faces Of Tomorrow & Inherit the Stars...) The Giants cycle is indeed good as a previous poster pointed out. If you like Hogan, you should try Code Of The Lifemaker, particularly if you have any interest in artificial intelligence. The story is based on a rather plausible description of self-replicating machines becoming sentient and creating a culture (over a 500,000 year timeframe) and then man's first encounters with their culture. As with much of Hogan's works (Voyage From Yesteryear, for example), he does a good job of inventing an alternative culture and then exposing the prejudices of earth society by juxtaposing the two and generating conflict. Code Of The Lifemaker is one of his best. Dave lampson@pulse.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 93 03:26:16 GMT From: ses11@po.cwru.edu (Sarah E. Smith) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: _The Waste Lands_ (possible minor spoiler) *POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILER* This has been driving me crazy ever since I read Stephen King's _The Waste Lands_ for the first time. I can trace most of his allusions to Robert Browning, T.S. Eliot, himself, or whomsoever as he happens to choose but, I have not been able to think of where he might have gotten the names Blaine and Patricia from (the trains whose Cradle is in Lud). Does anyone know what they might be in reference to? Or did he just pull them out of thin air? (This seems unlikely, considering what he's doing with _The Dark Tower_ series.) Or what? ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************