From: DEBORAH PULLIAM Lichen dyes <> Pokeberry and poke salad are one in the same: in the early spring, the green shoots are tender, and used in the south especially in salads. (back in the early 70s I think it was, there was a folk/rock song about ÒPoke Salad AnnieÓ if you remember that) Later on, theyÕre poisonous, as are the berries. The dye is a wonderful, but fugitive, pink that fades to pinkish brown. The dyebath is an intense pink/purple that looks like blueberry pie juice. <> I havenÕt done as much with orchils as some of the other lichens, but IÕve never noticed any difference between Òold growthÓ and this yearÕs lichens for intensity of color. IÕve used a lot more old growth than new, actually (I tend to get a lot off firewood thatÕs headed for the furnace), and IÕve gotten pretty intense colors from some pretty dead looking lichens. I think the colors remain in the lichens, even after they dye, but once you begin the fermentation process, the color has a Òshelf life.Ó <> Excellent policy! From: CLAIRE SCHAEFFER Nancy, thanks for your reply; I appreciate it. First of all, I identify my lichens by means of the texts I've worked out of. I have S. Elizabeth McClure's book on Dye Lichens of the Rockies, and I've used Mason E Hale's old but good book as well. Her book uses newer names and has good descriptions (in English, such as "has the texture of a tough potato chip") as well as some photoes and where you'll find that particular lichen (on wood, on rock, in the shade, etc...) I spent a summer identifying before collecting, testing with bleach wherever I went. I would never buy lichens because I don't know how the person collected them. Since the Ammonia I used is not industrial, it is fairly diluted (no, I did not use the sudsing kind); I cover my lichen shreds with ammonia; wait a bit, and doublt the volume with water. I'm getting an orchil quite quickly, actually. For the record, since I put the message on the bulletin boards, Deborah Pulliam recommended that I use the orchil "young"; my tests all indicated that the longer you waited, the better the color got (Judy McGrath, especially). Well, I had some Umbilicaria hyperborea that had fermented since June 12, so I "did up" a batch. This time I also did something else different; I put the orchli, yarn, and additional water in a large pickle jar, and heated it double-boiler style; it prevented it boiling on a stove whose heat is hard to control. I simmered for a couple hours, let it cool overnight without distubring it (0nly turning off the heat) simmered again the next day, cooled overnight, and I'm thrilled to annouince that I have rosy purple!!!! Am (this very evening) trying the same thing with Umbilicaria vellea; the orchli is not so purple as dark red; this orchil was started June 18, so this brew is indeed young. Also, thank you for your words of wisdom about the loom; since I asked that question, your answer is an elegant summation of what I've been advised; get 'em; you don't have to use them right away, but you're gonna want 'em. I understand that Spin-Off will publish some stuff of Mr. Gerber in the next issue. And I'll give mordanting a shot, too. From: ALISSON MOORE CS> But when I simmered a small quantity of wool in the orchil CS> with some water added to cover the wool, CS> the color stayed in the water. What's the deal? CS> To repeat, I'm using only small quantities of clean white wool with no CS> mordant. My experience with any wool being unmordanted guarantees almost total failure when using vegetable matter for dying. (There are exceptions.) Using lichens, in my experience, has required a mordant, and I have used alum successfully (but don't ask me the name of the lichen as I don't know!). With lichens, ammonia is used to extract the colors, and as a rinse to bring out the more purply/blue qualities after the mordanted wool has been dyed. A vinegar rinse enhanced the rosy colors.