TELECOM Digest Sun, 7 Aug 94 11:24:00 CDT Volume 14 : Issue 345 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Northern Telecom Second Quarter Results (Dave Leibold) Software Product Review: NPA (Greg Monti) Mobile Phones in Malaysia and Australia (Richard Dale) Re: Use of Call Forwarding to Avoid Toll Charges (Gordon Burditt) Re: Use of Call Forwarding to Avoid Toll Charges (Paul Robinson) Re: Measured and Unlimited Service at Same Residence (Paul Robinson) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and GEnie. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available at no charge to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 708-329-0571 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. ************************************************************************* * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-* * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************* Additionally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Aug 94 23:09:00 -0500 From: dave.leibold@superctl.tor250.org (Dave Leibold) Subject: Northern Telecom 2nd quarter results Reply-To: dave.leibold@superctl.tor250.org [from Northern Telecom via CNW] NORTHERN TELECOM REPORTS SECOND QUARTER RESULTS TORONTO, July 26 /CNW/ - Northern Telecom today reported results for the second quarter 1994. Revenues were $US 2.12 billion in the second quarter of 1994, up 14 percent compared with $US 1.87 billion reported for the same period in 1993. Net earnings applicable to common shares were $US 37 million, or $US .15 per share, compared with a loss of $US 1.03 billion or $US 4.13 per share. In 1993, excluding one time restructuring and other charges of $US 940 million after tax or $US 3.77 per share, net loss from operations was $US 88 million or $US .36 per share. Order input was $US 1.93 billion for the quarter compared with $US 2.18 billion last year reflecting lower orders in Canada and the impact of the business disposals somewhat offset by year over year gains in the United States and international markets. Orders on hand at June 30, 1994 remain strong at $US 3.76 billion. For the first half of 1994 Northern Telecom recorded revenues of $US 4.12 billion, an increase of eight percent over the $US 3.81 billion for the first half of 1993. Order input for the first half was $US 3.67 billion compared with $US 4.01 billion in 1993. Net earnings applicable to common shares for the first six months were $US 124 million, or $US .50 per share, compared with a net loss of $US 954 million or $US 3.83 per share in 1993. Excluding the one time restructuring and other charges of $US 940 million after tax, or $US 3.77 per share the net loss was $US 14 million after tax or $US .06 per share. Commenting on the results, Jean C. Monty, President and Chief Executive Officer of Northern Telecom said: "We are pleased with the second quarter and first half performance as we progress through this year of transition. The gain in revenue is indicative of our strengthening product portfolio and expanding global position. In addition, our cost reduction initiatives remain on track and with proceeds from the sale of non core assets, the business has an improved financial position." Geographic revenue for the quarter showed strong gains in the United States and international markets. United States revenues improved sharply principally on the strength of central office switching and transmission. Asia Pacific and the Caribbean and Latin America markets recorded significant revenue growth across most product lines. Revenues from Canada continued significantly below last year reflecting the ongoing impact of lower capital spending by the telephone operating companies. Product line revenues for the quarter showed advances over the prior year in all core business segments, except cable and outside plant which was much lower due to the impact of the sale of STC Submarine Systems in the first quarter. Substantial gains in central office switching, were led by the United States, Asia Pacific and the Caribbean and Latin American markets. Transmission revenues continue to post significant gains over last year reflecting strength in the synchronous product portfolio and wireless radio products. Multimedia Communications Systems also enjoyed double digit revenue growth. Selling, general and administrative expenses were $US 376 million, or 17.7 percent of revenue in the quarter as compared with $US 373 million, or 20.0 percent of revenue in 1993. For the first half of 1994, such expenses increased to $US 765 million from $US 737 million and decreased as a percentage of revenue to 18.6 percent from 19.3 percent. As a result of the restructuring plan Northern Telecom has invested in international sales and marketing activities while containing expense levels year over year. Research and development expenses totaled $US 274 million, or 12.9 percent of revenues, for the second quarter compared with $US 283 million, or 15.1 percent, for the second quarter last year. For the first half of 1994, research and development expenses decreased to $US 521 million from $US 539 million for 1993 or 12.6 percent of revenue compared with 14.1 percent. Additional spending relating to the modularization of central office switching architecture was incurred as planned and charged against the software provision taken in 1993. Mr. Monty added: "The second quarter improvements are indicative of the value of our investments in the development of international markets and new products. The introduction of our comprehensive portfolio of world class wireless systems is just one example. Entering the second half, we continue to anticipate improvement as compared with the same period last year due to the on-going benefits of our cost reduction activities and the expected cyclical spending patterns of our major customers. To complete our transition to traditional levels of profitability in the 1995 timeframe, we will continue to maintain our focus on cost improvement, product evolution and market development." Northern Telecom's common shares are listed on the New York, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, London, and Tokyo stock exchanges. NORTHERN TELECOM LIMITED Second Quarter Consolidated Results (unaudited) [detailed results omitted for brevity; available on original news release] For further information: Doug Patterson/Gary Brandt, Northern Telecom Limited (905) 566-3178/(905) 566-3098. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 15:59:44 EDT From: Greg Monti Subject: Software Product Review: NPA Software Product Review: NPA from The PC Consultant, PO Box 42086, Houston, TX 77242-2086 +1 713 826-2629 single license fee: $25.00 by Greg Monti "NPA" is a shareware database with lookup tools. It's a character-based, DOS application that allows you to find: -- city and state or province given the area code (NPA) and prefix (NXX); -- the area code(s) and prefix(es) which serve a given city and state or province; -- all cities and state(s) or province(s) which use an NPA; -- the US ZIP (but not Canadian postal) codes which predominate the land area served by a prefix; -- the county in which the city is located, with its population; -- the latitude and logitude (in terrestrial coordinates, not V&H coordinates) of the central office serving that prefix; -- a great circle mileage feature that lets you input a second area and prefix (or a second city and state) which calculates and displays the air mileage between there and the first city. This program is best run from a hard disk drive. 2.5 MegaBytes of free disk space are required for file decompression and setup. About 1.8 Megs are used for executables and databases thereafter. INPUT SCREEN: NPA - <04Feb94> (Numbering Plan Area) (C) 1991-94 PC Consultant Licensed to: Greg Monti 1st 2nd (great circle mileage) State/Province/NPA: 619 City/County/NXX/Zip: Min/Max # NXX: 1 / ^Scan City/ +---Show---+ +-------Show-------+ Screen ^Output County Name ^County ^Pop ^NXX ^Zip ^Lat/Long ^Display to Yes Yes Yes Yes No No Scroll Screen F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 Esc Help PrvSpec NxtSpec ClrSpec ClrFld SavOpts Cancel OUTPUT SCREEN: NPA - <04Feb94> (Numbering Plan Area) (C) 1991-94 PC Consultant Licensed to: Greg Monti (Hits: 105) TopLine: 1 of 129 NPA City/County/Pop x1k NXX (Esc) Quits ,PgDn --- ------------------- -------------------------------------------------- CA:California 619 Adelanto/San Bernardino/1418 246 388 Alpine/San Diego/2498 445 659 Apple Valley/San Bernardino/1418 240 242 247 946 Baker/San Bernardino/1418 733 852 Barstow/San Bernardino/1418 252 253 255 256 577 Benton/Mono/9 933 Big Pine/Inyo/18 938 Bishop/Inyo/18 387 872 873 937 Blythe/Riverside/1170 921 922 Bonita/San Diego/2498 472 479 Boron/Kern/543 762 769 Borrego Springs/San Diego/2498 394 767 Brawley/Imperial/109 344 351 Bridgeport/Mono/9 932 Calexico/Imperial/109 357 768 California City/Kern/543 373 Calipatria/Imperial/109 348 354 Camp Pendleton/San Diego/2498 430 Campo/San Diego/2498 478 For this report, I had the county name and population switches on, but the Zip code switch off. I also instructed "NPA" to display the small, one-prefix towns. Advantages: A1. States and provinces may be looked up by 2-letter code or by a fraction of (or the whole) the name. A2. If you input only a state or province, all cities, NPAs and prefixes will be displayed consistent with default filter criteria. When you call up a whole NPA, the default report will show only those cities with at least 5 prefixes. If you call up a whole state, the output displayed will be limited to cities with 10 or more NXXs. However, you can set the output to display cities with as few as one prefix. The reason for this is obvious: If you input California and nothing else, the default (ten-prefix) display will be 343 lines long, showing 114 cities. If you set the minimum number of prefixes per city to 1, the CA display will be 1009 lines long, showing 825 cities. A3. Cities are listed by area code, then alphabetically, then prefixes are listed numerically. A4. The prefix you enter, if any, shows in a contrasting color in the output screen. A5. You can search with just a state and a prefix. "NPA" will find all the area codes and city names. For example, if you enter Illinois and prefix 939, it reports all 939 prefixes in that state. There are four: 312-939 in Chicago, 618-939 in Waterloo, 708-939 in Northbrook, and 815-939 in Kankakee. A6. You can set the application for "left" or "any substring" matches of city and county names. A7. Screen may be set to scroll forward and back, or pause after each page, or nonstop. A8. Output may be sent to screen, printer or file. You can set the width of the report (from 79 to 255 columns for printer; from 79 to 999 columns for file). A9. You can move forward and backward through a history of the 20 most recent search criteria. A10. The escape key works any time, even quitting out of a long search. A11. "NPA" can be executed from a DOS prompt by specifying the search criteria in the command syntax or from an input screen. Disadvantages: D1. As with any work of this magnitude (and this fluid source material) information is sometimes incomplete. Sometimes, a new prefix not yet in use will show. Sometimes, a prefix known to be in use will be absent, or in the wrong city. There were few such errors with local numbers I know. D2. Multiple prefixes, serving different rate areas, are treated inconsistently. In Virginia, prefixes from the Dale City and Occoquan central offices, which serve four rate areas (Dale City, Occoquan, Lorton and Lorton Metro) are listed as being in a single city: Woodbridge, which is the postal name for the unincorporated area. In New York state, Bayville and Oyster Bay, different rate areas, are served out of a single CO in Oyster Bay, but are listed separately. D3. CO names themselves are not displayed and prefixes are not grouped by CO. However, by turning on the Latitude and Longitude coordinates and looking for prefixes with same Lat & Long, you can tell which are in the same office. D4. Zip codes shown are "best guesses", as the documentation puts it, probably the zip of the CO or of a nearby business district. A CO can cover many zips. D5. You cannot search for partial NXXs. You can't enter 39x or 39* and expect to find 391, 396 and 399. The same input field is used for Zip codes (where partials are allowed) and NXXs. 39* will give you all the known Zips from 39000 through 39999 inclusive. Curiosities: C1. In California's 213 and 310 NPAs, there is a city called "Belle Cellu" in each code, with a few NXXs between them. What are these? Cellular NXXs that are not assigned to a city name? Ironically, there is no company called "Bell Cellular" or "Pac Bell Cellular" any more. It was spun off and is called "AirTouch". C2. The much celebrated Hyder, AK, is not listed in either 604 or 907 areas. C3. The February, 1994, data show the 416/905 split in Ontario still in progress. Brampton, for example, is listed twice, with the same prefixes, once in each area code. Presumably, in a later version, the 416 listing will disappear. C4. "NPA" even lists the tiny towns in Northwest Territories and Yukon, such as (with the Latitude & Longitude switch on): Snowdrift 370/62.40x110.73 Spence Bay 561/69.53x093.54 Tuktoyaktuk 977/69.43x133.02 Tungsten 777/61.97x128.22 Wrigley 581/63.27x123.62 Yellowknife 669/62.45x114.37 873/62.45x114.37 920/62.45x114.37 604 Cassiar 778/59.28x129.79 Dease Lake 771/58.43x130.02 Fort Nelson 774/58.80x122.69 Iskut 234/57.83x129.97 Lower Post 779/60.06x128.69 Muncho Lake 776/58.91x125.74 Telegraph Creek 235/57.89x131.15 Toad River 232/58.84x125.21 Wonowon 772/56.73x121.79 819 Arctic Bay 439/73.03x085.19 Arviat 857/61.11x094.07 Baker Lake 793/64.31x096.03 Broughton Island 927/67.12x065.17 Capdorst 897/64.23x076.55 C5. Area 809 is listed, but only for Puerto Rico and the USVI. For some reason, asking for everything in 809 just gives you Puerto Rico. If you ask for VI specifically, it will list it. Asking for everything in 403 does show both Alberta and Yukon. Asking for 604 does show both BC and NW in one pass. C6. Fishers Island, NY (516-788) is listed in Connecticut as 203-788 and is missing from 516 and from NY State. Summary: On the whole, the algorithm and database sources in "NPA" appear useful and accurate. Those Telecom Digesters who have always wanted to associate Zip codes with NXXs will have a field day. For marketing types, county populations and Zips can give you an idea where to look when loading prefixes into war dialers. I have no association with The PC Consultant, other than as a satisfied customer. Greg Monti, Tech Mgr, FISPO, Distribution Division National Public Radio Phone: +1 202 414-3343 635 Massachusetts Av NW Fax: +1 202 414-3036 Washington, DC 20001-3753 Internet: gmonti@npr.org ------------------------------ From: rad@170.38.8.1 (Richard Dale) Subject: Mobile Phones in Malaysia and Australia Date: 7 Aug 1994 10:42:23 +0800 Organization: Petroliam Nasional Berhad (PETRONAS) Hello all, I'm an Australian resident looking to take a mobile phone to Malaysia to use in both locations. I would like to know if the mobile phones are compatible between both countries. Here's some background data: Australia Has both GSM & Analogue services (analogue is the most popular by about 10:1) Does NOT allow the importation of mobile phones - ie you must buy them in Australia. Malaysia Has several mobile phone services: 450Mhz - long distance coverage 800Mhz - Klang valley coverage (i.e. Kuala Lumpur area) 900Mhz - More coverage than 800 but not as much as 450Mhz. Handsets I have seen the Motorola Microtac II available in both Australia and Malaysia (and am interested in this model). Can I take one from Australia and, after registering with the appropriate carrier, use it in Malaysia? Thanks in advance, Richard A. Dale, Integrated Systems Australia (for Petronet Phase II) Petronas, Telecommunications & Networking, IRM Division, 27th Floor, Menara Dayabumi, Jalan Sultan Hishamuddin, 50500 KUALA LUMPUR Voice@Malaysia: +60-3-275-4277 | Voice@Australia: +61-9-333-4444 Fax@Malaysia: +60-3-293-3828 | Fax@Australia: +61-9-333-4499 EMail@MY: rad@tcn.petronas.my | EMail@AU: rad@osi.curtin.edu.au ------------------------------ From: gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt) Subject: Re: Use of Call Forwarding to Avoid Toll Charges Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 03:59:36 GMT TELECOM Digest Editor noted: > Bear in mind also that the costs involved in establishing a permanently > forwarded number at some location in an effort to divert the call from > toll will to a large extent negate any 'savings' you might expect otherwise. > Forget for a moment the grey area of 'call-forwarding versus toll' and > its questionable legality as an elective 'billing option' for subscribers. > Let's assume it is legal. Unless all the interim connections are untimed, > unmeasured local calls, there will be no savings, transparent or otherwise. Are you sure about this? Some intrastate rates, last time I checked, which was a few years back, seem bad enough that you'd be better off chaining three interstate calls going through, say, California and New York. Since you'd only need to chain two calls, you could make headway against the fixed overhead, but you'd still have to do a LOT of calling to get any savings overall. And an 800 number would probably beat both alternatives unless the 800 intrastate rate is much higher than the 800 interstate rate. Gordon L. Burditt sneaky.lonestar.org!gordon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 23:13:29 EDT From: Paul Robinson Reply-To: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: Use of Call Forwarding to Avoid Toll Charges Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Javad Boroumand , writes the following: > Is the use of Call Forwarding to avoid long distance charges illegal? > Let's say from point X to point Y is long distance. This could either > be long distance within a Bell company "Regional Calling Area" or it > goes across LATA boundaries and involves a long distance carrier > charges. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: It is technically illegal since > any device or scheme which is used to avoid tolls is illegal. Pat, I think you need to look again at the situation here. > If it so happens, by the merest coincidence, that it is convenient > for you to receive calls intended for yourself at some alternative > location and that location happens to be, when evaluated to the > original caller a toll charge had the original caller dialed it > direct, then my belief is you are within your rights to receive calls > routed in that way. I believe however that to deliberatly structure > your calling patterns in such a way as to *always* avoid tolls using > call forwarding via local hops is in violation of the intent of the > tariff, and thus the tariff itself. The writer was not referring to avoiding local call charges; he was referring to how to avoid paying an inter-lata carrier for the call. I cannot see how this can be a violation of tariff when local telephone companies, due to Judge Greene aren't even allowed to tariff inter-lata calls (except very limited circumstances). > The apparent contradition here lies in the *intent* behind call forwarding > as it was developed by telco. The *intent* is to make it convenient for a > person to receive their calls wherever they may happen to be. The *intent* > is not to provide alternatives to the existing toll rates. I think intent is irrelevant. If it is a violation of the phone company's rules to use local service to avoid going through a carrier -- and it only is if a tariff from the local phone company specifically has one stating such a condition -- then it matters little whether one does this on a regular, continuous basis or occasionally. Either using multiple forwarding to bypass a lata restriction is a tariff violation or it isn't, if it isn't, then it doesn't matter; if it is, then the reasons don't matter. Again, it must be a local wire company tariff explicitly stating that using call forwarding expressly to avoid using a LATA is prohibited. A tariff from AT&T or MCI carrying this is irrelevant. If it's legal in some cases and not in others, where do you draw the line? Once in a while? Once a week? Once a day? How do you set such a standard? It's technically illegal to drive over 65 miles per hour on any U.S. public road or faster than 55 in metropolitan areas, whether you do it once or ten times a day; (getting caught is the 'technical' part). > Let's assume it is legal. Unless all the interim connections are > untimed, unmeasured local calls, there will be no savings, transparent > or otherwise. Unlike Illinois and the huge phone bill increases after Ameritech got your call paks cancelled on the claim you would see lower bills, but never did, some places -- perhaps many -- still have untimed local calls. > It is very, very rare when any two or more local calls (or for that matter > any two or more long distance calls) when their costs are added together > are cheaper than a single call from one destination to another. I am in Silver Spring, Maryland. From this area to Baltimore is an inter-lata call which costs between 15 and 19c per minute, for example, depending on which carrier and what time called. 15c per minute is $9.00 per hour. It is a local call from here to Columbia, MD. It is a local call from Columbia to Baltimore. Local calls from both residential and business customers are untimed and cost about 10c each. Based on these rates, the break-even point on a call is 3 minutes. If we assumed that you had to pay someone $20 a month to let them keep an unused passthru line in their place, plus, say, $30 a month for that passthru line, plus 10c per call, the break-even point is at 6 hours of usage a month, or about 1/2 hour each weekday. If the line took two 15 minute call transfers each weekday, this would cost $5.00 in call charges. That means the line costs $55 a month. The toll cost of 15 minutes 50 times a month is $120. This represents a 50% savings over the cost of making the calls direct. Want to bet a direct tie line stretching 40 miles from Baltimore to Silver Spring is considerably more than either $55 or $120 a month. Beyond that, we have remote call forwarding capability, which means the destination number can be changed without visiting the site. There are places where this sort of thing is cheaper. > See my point? Nothing comes 'free', not even unmeasured local service > as a way to avoid tolls. At bare minimum, skin and bones cost for the > permanently forwarded interim line, you need to make a certain amount of > calls each month before it rolls in your favor. Add any interim expenses > and the rollover point gets even higher. Unless you can get the cost per > minute down to under 10-12 cents then forget it, because you can get an > 800 number with prices in that range, and the legality of 800 as a way > of receiving calls is unquestioned. At 10c a minute, we are still talking $6 an hour. That is quite a bit of money in some cases. The only reason using 800 is legal is because of the 2c per minute each side is getting in feature group access charges. And that's what it all comes down to is money. If people wanted to pay 2c per minute on forwarded calls, the local phone company wouldn't care how you forwarded them. Paul Robinson - Paul@TDR.COM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:10:04 EDT From: Paul Robinson Reply-To: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: Measured and Unlimited Service at Same Residence Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA John Higdon wrote: > mmathews@hadron.wellfleet.com (Mat Mathews) writes: > NYNEX tells me, however, that it IS NOT POSSIBLE to have measured and > unlimited service at the same residence. Why is this? > Probably because Nynex feels that this is a necessary way to extract > the last farthing from you. While I snort aplenty about Pac*Bell, at > least that company has absolutely no restrictions concerning mix and > match on classes of service. >> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: >> To get back to your original question, no they won't install metered >> service at your premises then turn around and give you a way to bypass >> the meter. Makes sense to me. PAT] > But not to me. If the telco is selling unmeasured service, is it not > done so expecting that the customer will make calls?... If a customer > has [both]...he is getting exactly what he is paying for: a more > expensive ... unlimited ... and a less expensive ...local calls are > charged for ... never been able to comprehend the reasoning (other > than greed or the desire to discourage having to provide extra > service in a neighborhood) behind the rules against mixing classes of > service... I hadn't thought about it that way, and it makes sense. A person who buys a limited and unlimited lines is doing essentially the same thing as adding call waiting on their line, and the extra line is usually more expensive than call waiting anyway. I am in the unique situation of having had both unlimited and limited lines at the same location. We have three classes of residential service in this part of Maryland. There is "economy" service which charges 9c for every call; there is "measured" service which gives 65 free calls on the line; and there is unlimited service. After having two unlimited service lines, then adding a third line, I figured if I could convert them to 65 call lines, that I would save money. I make calls to BBSs and would use more than 65 calls per month, but if I understood it correctly I would get 65*3 free calls per month, or 195 free call units, which is more than enough. Well, I find out from the clerk that I can do this, so I change over. I talk to another clerk about something, and she informs me that each line is separate and the call counts don't carry across from line to line even though they are all billed on the same bill. So I ask if I can have economy service on the two other lines and unmeasured service on the line my computer is on, since I can't get what I want, and the clerk says this is okay, except that I have to have someone else in the place get the second economy line since a person can't have two economy lines. My mother is living here so I give them her name and identification. This is back in November. I leave a message on TELECOM Digest about my situation, and a local reader I've had messages with before informs me that I *can* get all of the call counts combined. I check with a clerk, she says no and even mails me the tariff pages that seem to confirm that the call counts can not combined. By February I mention something to a clerk and she says that's wrong, the counts *can* be combined. So now I'm thoroughly confused. I ask for a supervisor, explain the whole thing and she says this is what is correct, and in fact having economy service with *any* other service at the same address is a tariff violation. You can have either one (1) phone line with economy. Or you can have all lines as measured service or all lines as unlimited, but not both types. In fact, because of this the telephone company's computers are bouncing my account's orders because they know what is on my account is a tariff violation and won't accept them. So the supervisor determines what I am trying to get -- three lines billed as one account with combined call allocation of 195 calls per month irregardless of which of the three lines places the calls -- and she says that's exactly what the measured service is supposed to provide. So the supervisor orders me back-billed to correct the problem since they have been billing me for the old account as well as the new one, which I paid. By the time they cleared the account, plus the erroneous account changes that were reversed because I wouldn't have been charged them if the account was correctly set up in the first place, it ended up that I had a credit of $85.00. So I think that the statement as made is correct; the reason for not allowing limited and unlimited is because the phone company wants to squeeze the last nickel. The difference between a 65-call per month line and an unlimited call line is about $12. Paul Robinson - Paul@TDR.COM [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: A comedy of errors here: John Higdon has further replied to Paul Robinson and sent a copy of that reply to the Digest (without realizing it.) Getting my autoreply, he writes and says 'did not mean to send that since it was personal to Paul; unless you use his don't use mine ...'. Not having Paul's message (above) on hand at the moment I wrote John saying okay I would kill his message. Then bingo, that being done, all of a sudden Paul's shows up here! Now I don't have John Higdon's further reply which was a good one. So John, if you will write again restating your comments responding to Paul, I will get yours out to the list ASAP probably Monday. There! Is all that clear as mud? As the Digest nears its 13th anniversary later this week I am hoping I can hold the thing together and get a few issues out later this week. I think regular readers know what I mean. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V14 #345 ******************************