ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-01-94 15:08 From: Don Kimberlin To: Stan Phillips Subj: Tesla, Col.sprng ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DK> ...Hmmm...wonder how the UV lights would provide a "downlink" DK> as well as an "uplink?" SP> The same way that normal phone conversations go both ways on SP> the same telephone line? ...Doesn't fit, Stan. The concept, as I get it, was to essentially "modulate" an uplink beam with power energy...but HOW would one pick it off the ionosphere at some "downlink" point? Was there supposed to be enough energy up there that any UV beam reaching it would be somehow magically "modulated" back down its length -- some sort of "Luxembourg Effect" of power transmission? DK> Believe it or not, the Last of the Dinosaurs of Radio seems DK> to bave been built as late as 1927 -- running a megawatt on DK> SIXTEEN KILOhertz! SP> Not so much a Dinosaur as a means of very long range SP> communications, and about the only means of communcating with SP> submarines (below water). From Gibraltar, one could key to SP> sub's in the med, using the transmitter in Rugby (England). SP> The keying relays at Rugby were massive and very noisy SP> circuit breakers that could not operate very fast. ...Sounds like you heard about Rugby Radio's GBR in its later days. Back in 1927, it wasn't first built for comms to subs, but for an "Empire Communications Plan," essentially, as they so often put it in those plans, to "reach the antipodes," meaning in British parlance, Australia and New Zealand. The submarine comms came along much later, and apparently the Official Secrets Act still keeps that quiet, as that later mission isn't talked about even today. And, only passing remarks are made about the Admiralty using it in WWII. Nobody will even talk about how it must have been a Nazi bombing target and if the Nazis ever did try a raid on it or not. The final "mission" of GBR was as a "standard time and frequency transmission," for a few minutes per hour, until 1986. Since then, it has been sitting there cold, like a dinosaur embedded in electronic amber, because the rest of Rugby Radio's plant around it is still operational, albeit dwindling rapidly now... SP> Another thing was that people living local to Rugby had many SP> built-in recievers such as knives and forks in the kitchen SP> draw. These would sing at 16Khz. Some claimed that the SP> fillings in their teeth detected the signal. All drainpipes SP> and plumbing had to be bonded or they would sing too. While SP> one could light a bulb off a simple loop, it was not too good SP> as the bulb went on and off, and in anycase, one could always SP> light a bulb with the 200Khz transmitter at Droitwich (if you SP> lived near enough). ...Surprised the Electricity Board didn't complain...heheee! SP> As an aside from this, it was not uncommon in the early days SP> of Transistors to wind a loop tuned to the local AM station SP> to power a small transistor radio!!!!! ...Yep. I did my first career as a radio station transmitter engineer. One place had a rented house near a tower, and the tenants even suffered the famous "musical toilet." It even played the Star Spangled Banner at 6 AM daily as we signed on... ...Anyhow, thanks for the vignettes about GBR's megawatt monster. I do not have much of a handle on how populated "Hillmorton, near Rugby" is or was. I guess it was pretty isolated in 1927, but probably isn't any more...have you any color to add about that? ...or, GBR's WWII life? (704)792-9241 (1:379/37.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-02-94 20:52 From: Don Kimberlin To: Bruce Kingsbury Subj: Tesla, Col.Sprng ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DK> ...That's my concern: The current-carrying capability of DK> the ionosphere can't be much; thus the voltage would have to DK> be something absolutely incredible in order to transmit any DK> meaningful amount of power. BK> No, because at high frequency and voltage, ionised gasses BK> conduct very well. ...Oh, boy. Save me a trip to the old physics books. What sort of range might the current densities fall in? If we're talking megavolts, it would still have to be kiloamps in order to carry gigawatts, right? And that's before considering any conversion losses...(Of course, considering that in Tesla's time, since lighting a bulb or two per room was perhaps the total demand, one gigawatt might have lit a whole nation...) (704)792-9241 (1:379/37.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-03-94 10:09 From: Ken Stewart To: Richard Quick Subj: Tesla Coils, Etc. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I was doing some scrounging around this weekend and found a couple of fairly new neon sign transformers, 120v to 4.5kv. Are they usable for a desktop Tesla coil? Your files referenced 10 kv and up. BTY, I will send you the cash and blank tape this week. I am looking forward to seeing your video. 919-662-9313 9353 (1:151/147) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 06 Oct 94 20:35:52 From: Richard Quick To: Ken Stewart Subj: Tesla Coils, Etc. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ KS> I was doing some scrounging around this weekend and found a KS> couple of fairly new neon sign transformers, 120v to 4.5kv. KS> Are they usable for a desktop Tesla coil? Your files KS> referenced 10 kv and up. You can work with Tesla tank circuits that run on less than 9kv, but your best bet is to stick with neons that are rated 9kv-15kv. KS> BTW, I will send you the cash and blank tape this week. I KS> am looking forward to seeing your video. Everyone, with only one exception, has liked the video. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-10-94 15:58 From: Kirk Lyons To: Richard Quick Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. One source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 tsp. at a time). The other source would only sell it to me in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors). Can you please provide me with a source for this. Thank you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any info you can give me on a source for this oil. (314) 837-5422 (1:100/395) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-10-94 18:02 From: Richard Quick To: Kirk Lyons Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. One KL> source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 KL> tsp. at a time). The other source would only sell it to me KL> in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors). KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this. Thank KL> you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any KL> info you can give me on a source for this oil. U.S.P. Mineral oil is available in pint and quart containers in most supermarkets and drug stores. Walgreens Drugstores carries this oil in quart containers for around $5.00, so figure about $20.00 to get a gallon. If they don't have a gallon (four quarts) in stock, ask the floor manager, they can order it quickly. Scented mineral oil (not U.S.P. grade, but still high quality) is sold under the label "Baby Oil" by Johnson & Johnson. This grade is also suitable for capacitor construction. Try an off-brand (which by law is equivilent) for cost savings. Sometimes this grade can be found on sale (WAL-MART $1.50 per pint). I hope you downloaded the most current TESLA?.ZIP file and made it available on your favorite BBSs! Thanks for the complements! ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 14 Oct 94 18:07:36 From: Richard Quick To: Terry Smith Subj: Tesla power xmission ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DK> ...Again, when it's conduction, the emphasis is on current, DK> not voltage...at least for ordinary mentalities...can you DK> help get my perspective right for this understanding? RQ> Long distance 60 cycle transmission uses voltage, not RQ> current, to transmit the power. TS> This is highly inaccurate... TS>... Power is quite simply the product of both voltage and TS> current, assuming no phase difference. In long distance TS> power transmission, I^2R losses are minimized by using high TS> E, low I. My understanding is that you understood perfectly. So, is the emphasis on greater voltage, or greater current, for economical long distance power transmission? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 14 Oct 94 18:06:02 From: Richard Quick To: Don Kimberlin Subj: Tesla power xmission ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DK> ...Hmmm...wonder how the UV lights would provide a DK> "downlink" as well as an "uplink?" SP> The same way that normal phone conversations go both ways on SP> the same telephone line? DK> ...Doesn't fit, Stan. The concept, as I get it, was to DK> essentially "modulate" an uplink beam with power energy... DK> but HOW would one pick it off the ionosphere at some DK> "downlink" point? Was there supposed to be enough energy up DK> there that any UV beam reaching it would be somehow DK> magically "modulated" back down its length -- some sort of DK> "Luxembourg Effect" of power transmission? Modulate? Send the power up just as if the beam were a wire. Bring it back down? Put another wire up (or beam) and conduct it to the ground. We are talking about a high voltage electrical current passed through direct, point of contact, conduction. Or do you view 60 cycle power transmsission as a "modulation" of the copper or aluminum wire? Tesla's more modern system of wireless power transmission system works the same way as his earlier version, just at a slightly higher frequency, and using different conductors. I would not think that the idea of conduction through a low pressure gas, or conduction through a high pressure gas which is sufficiently ionized, would be so foreign. In a glowing neon tube do you consider the gas to be "modulated" with the 60 cycle signal; or does it simply conduct? Electricity passed through a glowing neon tube: does it require "magic" in your opinion to get the energy to conduct to a low voltage point, or is it the nature of high voltage currents to seek low voltage grounds? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-08-94 00:45 From: Bruce Lane To: Michael Cary Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Michael Cary whapped All with a rubber chicken, and demanded Jacobs Ladder... MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard it MC> would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project. Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the voltages involved are very dangerous. All you need is a neon sign transformer and a couple of bare-wire coat hangers. Cut the hangers up to provide the two leads for the spark gap, and remove any insulating varnish with a bench grinder or wire brush. Bend the chopped-up hangers into a V-shape, attach them to the appropriate terminals on the transformer, stand back and plug it in. You may need to adjust the gap a bit. Do NOT do this with the transformer plugged in!!! Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing with the kind of power a neon sign transformer is capable of generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and keep it well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is easily capable of setting something on fire. ==Bruce (1:138/198) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-12-94 23:42 From: James Grimsley To: Michael Cary Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -=> Quoting Michael Cary to All <=- MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard it MC> would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project. An easy way is to use heavy guage copper wire for the poles and a neon sign transformer for the power supply. Careful, tho. The shock be lethal. 210-658-0994 (1:387/520.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-13-94 05:57 From: Michael Cary To: Bruce Lane Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -> Michael Cary whapped All with a rubber chicken, and demanded -> Jacobs Ladder MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard MC> it would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project. -> Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the -> voltage involved are very dangerous. -> All you need is a neon sign transformer and a couple of -> bare-wire hangers. Cut the hangers up to provide the two leads -> for the spark gap. Remove any insulating varnish with a bench -> grinder or wire brush. -> Bend the chopped-up hangers into a V-shape, attach them to the -> appropriate terminals on the transformer, stand back and plug -> it in. You may need to adjust the gap a bit. Do NOT do this -> with the transformer plugged in!!! -> Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing -> with the of power a neon sign transformer is capable of -> generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing -> at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and -> keep it well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is - > easily capable of setting something on fire.==Bruce(1:138/198) Thanks for the info. I think I'll give it a try. 619-474-9385 (1:202/1705.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 17 Oct 94 16:48:57 From: Richard Quick To: Bruce Lane Subj: Jacobs Ladder ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -> MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard -> MC> it would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project. -> Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the -> voltage involved are very dangerous... Edited out accurate and informative instructions on building a Jacob's Ladder out of wire coat hangers and a neon sign xfmr... -> Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing -> with the of power a neon sign transformer is capable of -> generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing -> at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and -> keep it well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is -> easily capable of setting something on fire. == Bruce -> 619-474-9385 (1:202/1705.0) A bit over cautious perhaps. Just as an added note: the 15,000 volt neons give the best arc, and for additional power you can wire two or three neons in parallel for a nice fat growler. I have never seen any reason to allow "at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it", but your advice on flammables is well given. Having messed with these xfmrs for years as power supplies for various high-voltage projects (Jacob's Ladders, Tesla Coils, etc.) without any shocking accidents, I can only repeat the lore from my local neon shop friends who supply me with used cores: though they do bite, these professionals have not heard of a serious injury or lethal accident resulting when someone has contacted the high voltage bushings: but this is not to say that the potential for serious harm does not exist, only that it is rare. Though I would not recommend repeating the demonstration by anyone without experience, I have lit cigars from the arc of some of my smaller Jacob's Ladders. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-06-94 20:39 From: Richard Quick To: Mark Conway Subj: Tesla coils ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -=> Sez Mark Conway to Richard Quick <=- MC> Hi Richard, Got a couple more questions to ask you. Please, go right ahead. MC> I have been running my tesla coil without a safety gap or MC> bypass capacitor in the circuit as I just wanted to see if MC> it worked. I have stopped running it now as I dont want to MC> blow the neon. Yes, you can run without a safety gap, bypass filters, and RF choking. But you are correct, if you keep it up your neon will fail prematurely. MC> Looking thru your postings I cannot find much info on how to MC> build the safety gap. I notice in your circuit diagram that MC> the middle of the safety gap is grounded. How do you do MC> this when you make the safety gap? Do you have a sheet of MC> metal or something between the two elctrodes of the gap and MC> the sparks jump to this? The safety gap need not be complex, precision, or expensive. A couple of ajustable screws or bolts mounted on some insulators with a grounded brass or copper plate between them works just fine. I like to use threaded (adjustable) brass or copper electrodes for added conductivity, but it is not really necessary. The xfmr core, safety gap center post, and the base of the Tesla secondary coil all connect with heavy strap to a heavy, dedicated, RF grounding system. Your coil won't need anything massive for a ground... yet! MC> Also I am unable to find any of those doorknob caps that you MC> use for your bypass capacitor. Since the capacitance of MC> these caps is so small do you think it would be ok if I made MC> a small capacitor out of aluminium foil and glass? Glass has a very high RF dissipation factor. Since we are attempting to dissipate kickback energy at this end of the circuit, glass and aluminum capacitors will work beautifully here! ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 09-25-94 19:06 From: Jim Oliver To: Richard Quick Subj: Tesla Coils ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On: 19-09-94 RICHARD QUICK wrote To: MARK CONWAY heavily edited MC> One thing I'm not sure of is what mineral oil is - is it MC> used for lubricating machines or what? RQ> Well in this country, mineral oil is a pharmaceutical RQ> (medical) grade of pure petroleum oil. It is sold in RQ> drugstores as an intestinal lubricant (laxative), and for RQ> skin care (women use it to remove makeup). It is heavy, RQ> clear, and has little or no smell (odorless). Another use for RQ> this product is to oil down baby bottoms to prevent diaper RQ> rash. It's also called Paraffin Oil. MC> Would clean motor oil have the same insulating properties as MC> mineral oil or would the additives in it mean that it would MC> not be suitable for high voltage insulation? RQ> I have used cheap, clean, motor to cover the salt water in RQ> salt water capacitors; but for the plastic capacitors I spend RQ> the extra money and go with the higher quality, pure, mineral RQ> oil. Here, here. Engine oil of _any_ type is too heavily contaminated with additives for HV work. RQ> A good alternative would be high grade, PCB free, transformer RQ> oil, which is sometimes available from oil companies in large RQ> pails. Another petroleum product that I have looked at, but RQ> never used, is hydraulic fluid. Hydraulic fluid is useless. It contains highly polar chemicals (glycols) which are almost conductors wrt HV. Straight paraffin oil is best. This oil is widely used to prevent "bloat" in cattle in this country, and is relatively cheap and is food grade, very pure, and free from any additives. As you say, most oil companies will sell transformer oil which is specified for certain voltage break down characteristics. It is usually very dry (very low water content) and free from additives. Jim Oliver 04-385-6550 (3:771/370.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-12-94 16:14 From: Richard Quick To: Jim Oliver Subj: Tesla Coils ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Quoting Jim Oliver, who quoted RICHARD QUICK, who quoted MARK CONWAY: This post concerns types and availability of insulating oils for high-voltage work, Tesla capacitor construction, etc... ... JO> heavily edited MC> One thing I'm not sure of is what mineral oil is - is it MC> used for lubricating machines or what? RQ> Well in this country, mineral oil is a pharmaceutical RQ> (medical) grade of pure petroleum oil. It is sold in RQ> drugstores as an intestinal lubricant (laxative), and for RQ> skin care (women use it to remove makeup). It is heavy, RQ> clear, and has little or no smell (odorless). Another use RQ> for this product is to oil down baby bottoms to prevent RQ> diaper rash. Mark Conway asked me if it was swallowed in it's use as an intestinal lubricant: the answer is yes it is. JO> It's also called Paraffin Oil. MC> Would clean motor oil have the same insulating properties as MC> mineral oil or would the additives in it mean that it would MC> not be suitable for high voltage insulation? RQ> I have used cheap, clean, motor to cover the salt water in RQ> salt water capacitors: but for the plastic capacitors I RQ> spend the extra money and go with the higher quality, pure, RQ> mineral oil. JO> Here, here. Engine oil of _any_ type is too heavily JO> contaminated with additives for HV work. Not when used as I have suggested... for corona supression only on salt water plate capacitors. It is poured over the salt water, and acts to reduce corona losses. Single grade motor oil works just fine in this application, and as Mark Conway is using a capacitor of this type, I thought I would mention it: it is cheap, available, and effective in this use. For any other high- voltage use I recommend the pure mineral (paraffin) oil or transformer oil. RQ>A good alternative would be high grade, PCB free, transformer RQ>oil, which is sometimes available from oil companies in large RQ>pails. Another petroleum product that I have looked at, but RQ>never used, is hydraulic fluid. JO> Hydraulic fluid is useless. It contains highly polar JO> chemicals (glycols) which are almost conductors wrt HV. My grievous mistake: the particular type of hydraulic fluid I have been looking at is the new type, silicone base, fluid. It contains no glycols, is non-hygroscopic (water attracting) and non-polar. It appears to be an excellent high-voltage insulator: good heat capacity, non-conductive, non-flamable, high boiling point. It is expensive, but my local auto parts stores sells it by the pint for car brake systems: it does not mix with the older glycol fluid or petroleum based products. I neglected to list the exact type of hydraulic fluid I was looking at: I apologize for any confusion. JO> Straight paraffin oil is best. This oil is widely used to JO> prevent "bloat" in cattle in this country, and is relatively JO> cheap and is food grade, very pure, and free from any JO> additives. As you say, most oil companies will sell JO> transformer oil which is specified for certain voltage break JO> down characteristics. It is usually very dry (very low water JO> content) and free from additives. There you go. With this list of suggestions, Mark Conway and others should have no problem finding a suitable oil for use in Tesla capacitor construction. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-10-94 15:58 From: Kirk Lyons To: Richard Quick Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. One source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 tsp. at a time). The other source would only sell it to me in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors). Can you please provide me with a source for this. Thank you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any info you can give me on a source for this oil. (314) 837-5422 (1:100/395) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-10-94 18:02 From: Richard Quick To: Kirk Lyons Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. One KL> source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 KL> tsp. at a time). The other source would only sell it to me KL> in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors). KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this. Thank KL> you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any KL> info you can give me on a source for this oil. U.S.P. Mineral oil is available in pint and quart containers in most supermarkets and drug stores. Walgreens Drugstores carries this oil in quart containers for around $5.00, so figure about $20.00 to get a gallon. If they don't have a gallon (four quarts) in stock, ask the floor manager, they can order it quickly. Scented mineral oil (not U.S.P. grade, but still high quality) is sold under the label "Baby Oil" by Johnson & Johnson. This grade is also suitable for capacitor construction. Try an off-brand (which by law is equivilent) for cost savings. Sometimes this grade can be found on sale (WAL-MART $1.50 per pint). I hope you downloaded the most current TESLA?.ZIP file and made it available on your favorite BBSs! Thanks for the complements! ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-11-94 22:04 From: James Meyer To: Kirk Lyons Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 10-10-94, KIRK LYONS wrote to RICHARD QUICK and said: KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. One The high voltage transformer oil that we use in the laser lab is certified and very expensive. However, it looks, smells, burns, and gives every other impression of being kerosene that has been well refined. I suspect that the grade of kerosene sold for heaters and lamps would be a perfectly suitable substitute. Jim (1:3641/1) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-12-94 22:25 From: Eugene Welcome To: Kirk Lyons Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this. Hi Kirk. There are two sources possibly near you. Xray Sales and service such as Siemans, Picker, GE, CGR, Toshiba, Bennett and several others. Secondly try your local Power Utility at their service dept. All of the above are the larger known companies that use transformer oil and maintain backup stock for re- placement needs. I still have a gallon here for my dummy load. The best is made by Shell Oil called Diala AX. Most transformers used today use this product. It is superior to mineral oil when it comes to high voltages of hundreds of thousands of volts. Diagnostic Xray up to 150,000 volts. Radiation Therapy Xray up to 500,000 volts. I've worked on them for many years. I'm now retired. :-) (1:138/119.0) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-12-94 22:40 From: Steve Ostrom To: Kirk Lyons Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ In a message of <10 Oct 94 15:58:00>, Kirk Lyons (1:100/395) writes: KL=> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral KL=> Oil for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. KL=> One source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities KL=> (1 tsp. at a time). The other source would only sell it to KL=> me in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors). You should ask the unit dose people who supplies them. I bet they don't buy the 55 gallon drums. (1:163/307.6) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-15-94 08:35 From: Rick Morlock To: James Meyer Subj: Mineral oil for capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ JM> burns, and gives every other impression of being kerosene JM> that has been well refined. I suspect that the grade of JM> kerosene sold for heaters and lamps would be a perfectly JM> suitable substitute. Jim, I would not recommend Kerosene at all it is highly flammable where as mineral oil isn't highly flammable. That sounds dangerous to me. Rick Morlock, strider3@aol.com / rick.morlock@f165.n260.z1.fidonet.org 716-646-5438 (1:260/165) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-16-94 12:54 From: James Meyer To: Rick Morlock Subj: Mineral oil for capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 10-15-94, RICK MORLOCK wrote to JAMES MEYER and said: JM> I suspect that the grade of kerosene sold for heaters and JM> lamps would be a perfectly suitable substitute. RM> Jim, I would not recommend Kerosene at all it is highly RM> flammable where as mineral oil i sn't highly flammable. RM> That sounds dangerous to me.. My point was that if you're considering real, honest-to-goodness, high voltage transformer oil, then you might as well use a good grade of kerosene. They are practically the same. If kerosene is dangerous, then so is transformer oil. Have you made any side-by-side personal experiments regarding how flammable kerosene and mineral oil are? I thought not. Jim 919-286-4542 (1:3641/1) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-16-94 18:13 From: Grant Fair To: James Meyer Subj: Mineral Oil For Capacitor ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Well, according to Don Lancaster in Hardware Hacker, kerosene was used in electrical discharge milling - which means that even at relatively low potential - less than 100V, for example - with a gap of a mil between the work piece and the cutting tool, there would be a spark. This suggests it would not be a good dialectric, no? Since I have no practical experience or other knowledge in this area I stand open to correction. (1:229/15) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 10-18-94 20:36 From: Jason Advani To: Michael Cary Subj: JACOBS LADDER ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing > with the power a neon sign transformer is capable of > generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Uhmm.. Where can I find a Neon Sign Transformer? This project seems real cool. If I were to enclose the whole thing in an air tight Glass box would it still work? Jason 513-231-7013 (1:108/205) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Date: 19 Oct 94 16:27:34 From: Richard Quick To: Jason Advani Subj: JACOBS LADDER ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ JA> Uhmm.. Where can I find a Neon Sign Transformer? This JA> project seems real cool. If I were to enclose the whole JA> thing in an air tight glass box would it still work? JA> Jason Neon Sign xfmrs are available used from most neon sign shops. Look in your local Yellow Pages under " SIGNS " for shops that specialize in neon work. Often times you can locate a decent working unit for free by calling around. As to the project: the arc moves up the "ladder" when air is heated and begins to rise, this rising hot air current carries the arc upwards. The Jacob's Ladder works best when the rails are mounted in an enclosure with an open bottom and an open top. The enclosure prevents side drafts from breaking the arc prematurely, and gives the longest arc. The open bottom and top construction of the enclosure allows for the airflow, fresh cool air coming in at the bottom, and hot dirty air leaving at the top.