How to Load CD files into WILDCAT 3.0 by Gary Stark, November 1991 This latest version of Wildcat, 3.0, holds tremendous promise for the suport of Cd-Roms for BBS's. However it is not quite up to par yet. The interface of loading the information into Wildcat still needs alot of work. I'll discuss two methods for importing files into Wildcat databases. One is a shortcut that will work, and the second will be the full blown correct way of installing the files. Too install the files the full blown correct way you will need the following programs: Wildcat 3.0+ (of course) WCPRO SUPERKEY (macro program or equivalant, I used NEWKEY a shareware macro program) WCCD0 (a program from Michael Conley that makes the 0k files for Wildcat) WCFILE (used to import the descriptions into WC) The following methods should work with any Cd-Rom. I've used Carrs4 & Carrs5, and Alde shareware Caresouel using these methods. STEP #1. First print the main directory listing that came with your cd-rom on paper, so you can use it to mark and keep track of your progress. Here is the one that comes with Carrs#5. Notice, this tells me I will have 58 file areas to make in Wildcat. However, I will actually need more because some file areas are actually in more than one sub -dir. When that occurs they are numbered 001A, 001B, 001C, etc. So, each area corresonds to the number on this list. ( Now don't get confused, just becasue sub-dir 1 on the disc is communication, doesnt mean it has to be file area one in Wildcat). Here are the areas for the Carrs 5 disc ÉÍ[ PDSI005 Files Directories ]ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º 1 Communications 21 Home Computing 41 Text Editors & Utilsº º 2 Games & Fun Things 22 BBS Programs 42 CakeWalk 3 &4 Utils º º 3 DeskTop Publishing 23 File Archiving Utils 43 Midifile sound filesº º 4 Word Processing 24 .GIF Pictures 44 Sound Blaster Files º º 5 OS/2 Programs & Utils 25 BBS Doors & Utils 45 Music - .CMF Albums º º 6 Pascal & Turbo Pascal 26 A.S.P. Shareware 46 Midi-.SNG Albums º º 7 BASIC & QuickBasic 27 Math & Science 47 Music - .WRK Albums º º 8 Education Programs 28 dBase Files & Utils 48 Music - .CMS Albums º º 9 Business Applications 29 LAN Files & Utils 49 Music - .STM Albums º º 10 Window Demo's 30 Food Recipes 50 Adlib and Rol Files º º 11 Personal System Utils 31 Printer Utils 51 PC Speaker & Sound º º 12 Windows Applications 32 Screen Utils 52 Misc. Music & Sound º º 13 Windows Games 33 Keyboard Utils 53 Midi-Yamaha DX Utilsº º 14 CAD Programs & Utils 34 Modem Utils & Help 54 .CMF Player & Utils º º 15 Religious Files 35 Virus Protection 55 TrakBlaster Files º º 16 Hard Disk Utils 36 EGA & VGA Games 56 Midi-Roland MT Utilsº º 17 Floppy Disk Utils 37 File Processing 57 Clipper Programs º º 18 Data Base Programs 38 Ham Radio 58 All unsorted Files º º 19 Graphics Programs 39 Dos Utils & helps º º 20 Operating System Utils 40 Spread Sheets & Utils º ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ STEP #2 Start MAKEWILD and first make sure you tell wildcat on page one how many file areas you want. (This number should total how many sub-dirs you have on your CD + your local HD file areas + an additional 20 file areas). I'll tell you why for the additional areas later. Now in MAKEWILD goto file area definition. Now define one file area for every sub-dir on the CD-Rom disc. DO NOT USE THE ALTERNATE FILE PATHS. THIS OPTION IS NOT SUPPORTED YET WHEN USING A CD-ROM ! example: Area Description Area Description ÄÄÄÄ ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ÄÄÄÄ ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ 97 - File Processing 98 - Ham Radio Files 99 - Dos Utils & Helps 100 - Spread Sheets & Utils 101 - Text Editors & Utils 102 - Cakewalk 3 & 4 Utils 103 - Midifile Sound Files 104 - SoundBlaster Files 105 - Music - .CMF Files 106 - Midi - .SNG Albums 107 - Music - .WRK Albums 108 - Music - .CMS Albums 109 - Music - .STM Albums 110 - Music - Adlib & Rol Files 111 - Music - Pc Speaker Sounds 112 - Misc Music & Sounds 113 - Midi-Yamaha DX Utils 114 - CMF Players & Utils 115 - Trakblaster Files 116 - Midi- Roland MT Utils 117 - Clipper Programs 118 - Unsorted Files !!!!! 119 - 120 - 121 - 122 - 123 - temp 043b 124 - temp 044b This is how I entered the Cd file areas for the new CARRS/Nightowl #5 disc into makewild. Notice areas 123 and 124, I called them temp and named them for the actual file area (sub-dir) on the Cd-Rom to prevent confustion on my part. Now do this for every sub-dir !! To make file keeping easier on the print out I made I wrote down the file area in Wildcat next to the name of each Cd-Rom sub-dir, so file area 110 is dub- dir 50A, file area 111 is sub-dir 051A, ETC. (ALSO notice, I placed the temp dirs at the end of the list. This way all the main 58 areas are in order, then we will move the files later). STEP #3 Ok, now makewild knows about every sub-dir on our Cdrom. We can now import the files with their description into Wildcats file database. Start WCFILE, choose add files with desription file ±±±±±±±±±±±±ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸± ±±±±±±±±±±±±³ WCFILE v1.0 - File database utility for WILDCAT v3 ³± ±±±±±±±±±±±±ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ;± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ WCFILE MENU ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±º Add files - With description file º±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±º Add files - No description file º±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±º Add files - CD RBBS-In-A-Box º±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±º ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ º±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±º Exit º±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ±±±±±±±±±±±± It will now ask for the name of the text file to use. You can use the dir listings that came with your Cd-Rom. WCFILE will read the listing only for the file name and only for the description. Once it reads the file name it will check for duplicates already in the database, if not a duplicate it will check the Cd- rom file area specified for the area, then read the file date and size from the disc and put this info into the database. When using the dirs from the disc, I recommend copying them to your HD for faster access. Also you do not have to modify them you can use them exactly as they come. (the 3 exceptions on Carrs 5 are areas 19,51, & 58. In these file areas the descriptions have high ascii characters in them and when Wildcat tries to add them as a KEY, it bombs out and you must run WCREPAIR on the file database. So edit those three dir's before using. Just remove the high ascii characters.) After telling WCFILE where the dir list is it displays the dir so you can look at it. Also it asks where the description starts. In Carrs #5 it is in location number 34. So enter 34 in the appropriate line, then press F10 to continue. ±±±±±±±±±±±±ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±³ WCFILE v1.0 - File database utility for WILDCAT v3 ³±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ;±±±±±±±±±±±± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± Õùùùùùùùù1ùùùùùùùù2ùùùùùùùù3ùùùùùùùù4ùùùùùùùù5ùùùùùùùù6ùùùùùùùù7ùùùùùùù¸ ³ Unsorted Files Of All Sorts ³ ³ Location Of Files 058A ³ ³ ³ ³0829ANSI.ZIP 257247 08-31-91 Some sample ANSI files. ³ ³0938.ZIP 175875 10-07-91 Complete Chemical modeling ³ ³system. ³ ³11CHAOS.ZIP 38819 02-05-89 Chaos program ³ ³123PW.ZIP 12459 03-22-91 File & Directory management for ³ ³Lotus 1-2-3. ³ ³12LLCO.ZIP 93229 10-07-91 kill netware connections from ³ ³the command lin ³ ³1540DRIV.ZIP 1156 10-07-91 Adaptec 1540 Drive Compatibility ³ ÔÍDIR58 ÍLines: 1 - 12 ÍÍCol: 1 ÍÍTotal: 2004 ÍÍBytes: 87365ÍÍÍÍ; ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ Settings ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸±ÕÍÍÍÍÍ Help ÍÍÍÍ͸± ³ File name begins on column : 1 ³±³ F1 - More Help³± ³ Description begins on column: 34 - Max characters: 60 ³±³ F6 - Switch ³± ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ;±³ F10 - Continue ³± ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ;± Now it asks for the file area to add the files to in the Wildcat database. You will choose the appropriate area you defined earlier. Although the dir list may contain more files then the file area, thats ok, it won't add the files if they are not located in the file area. DO NOT CHOOSE MORE THAN ONE FILE AREA TO WORK WITH AT A TIME. If you do, WCFILE will search every file area specified to find the file listed in the dir, and this slows down the process considerably !. So remember one file area (sub-dir) at a time ! Now just repeat this for every sub-dir on your Cd-rom, and you'll have all your files with decscriptions loaded into Wildcat in one evening ! STEP #4 The follwing is only required if you want to get the optimum performance from your Cd-Rom and Wildcat. We now have all the files loaded into the database and they can be downloaded. However, if someone does a search on filename, WC will search the Cd- Rom for the file and this is slow........ So to speed the process up, we have to make 0k files of every file on the cd, then tell wildcat the file is located on the CD by changing the ON CD-Rom flag on the file. On your HD, create 58 sub dirs that match the Cd sub dirs. On my system, I've named them c:\PDSI5\001, c:\PDSI5\002, c:\PDSI5\003, etc..... STEP #5 Run WCCD0, to create the required 0k files. It will ask for the Cd rom Sub- dir then the area for the 0k files to be placed. ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º WCCD0 version 0.50 Beta, for Wildcat 3.x BBS data files º º a public domain utility from the Charlatan's Cabin BBS º º by Michael Conley º ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹ º º º º º º º º º Enter the complete drive/path of the CD ROM directory: º º º º ---> H:\ º º º º º º Enter the complete drive/path for Zero-Byte files: º º º º ---> ùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùù º º º When your Cd-rom is divided into multi sub-dirs, for one file area, no problem, just run wccd0 again, and enter the same drive/path for the 0k files. That way we can have all the files in one dir that users will see. Run this for every sub-dir on the CD-Rom. STEP #6 Start your macro program (i.e. superkey, Newkey, etc) That can enter keystrokes into another program). STEP #7 Now for the laborious task. The following task takes the longest because of screen updates, (just wait you'll see). Start WCPRO goto the files section, then goto match. Choose the one Cd-Rom area you want to work with. Wildcat! WCPRO Copyright (c) 1991 by Mustang Software, Inc. Version 3.01 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ File Areas Included ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸ ³ ³ ( ) 54 - temp 044c ³ ³ Areas: (p³ ( ) 55 - temp 044d ° ³ ³ File name: ³ ( ) 56 - temp 044e ° ³ ³ Size from: 0 ³ ( ) 57 - temp 045b ° ³ ³ Date from: 01/³ ( ) 58 - temp 045c ° ³ ³ Accessed from: 01/³ ( ) 59 - temp 045d ° ³ ³ Days old: 0 ³ ( ) 61 - Communication Files ° ³ ³ Days since DL: 0 ³ ( ) 62 - Games !!! ° ³ ³ Password: ³ ( ) 63 - Desktop Publishing Files ² ³ ³ Uploader: ³ ( ) 64 - Word Processing ° ³ ³ Description: ³ ( ) 65 - OS/2 Programs ° ³ ³ Downloads from: 0 ³ ( ) 66 - Pascal & Turbo Pascal ° ³ ³ Cost from: 0 ³ ( ) 67 - Basic & Quickbasic ° ³ ³ Never overwrite: Bot³ ( ) 68 - Education Programs ° ³ ³ Never delete: Bot³ ( ) 69 - Business Applications ° ³ ³ Free download: Bot³ ( ) 70 - Windows 3.0 Demo Programs ³ ³ Password required: BotÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ; ³ ³ Keyword: ³ ³ Long description: ³ ³ ³ ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ; °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° F1-Help F10-Ok Alt-C-ClearAll Alt-S-SetAll ESC-Abort After choosing the one file area, press f10, then press f10 again. Now goto browse files. WCPRO will now find all files in the one area you specified. This will take along time, it takes 30 minutes before I can do anything else, since I have over 15,000 files listed in the database. Once WCPRO has found the match criterea files, we will now start our macro program to learn a macro. The steps in the macro are as follows: Enter (this brings up the file detail) Down arrow 10 times ( positioning) TAB (positions cursor to on Cd-Rom Tag) "Y" (change flag to yes) Down arrow 2 times (positioning) "now enter the actual Cd path on this line (stored path)" F10 (saves changes in database, and goes back to file listing) Down Arrow once (postions to next file) (tell macro you want recursion, i.e. to play itself over and over again) (now end macro) Play macro and it will enter the file area and change the flag on each file in this area. When the macro runs out of files it will just stall itself, so you can stop the macro when it stalls. Now go back to the match filter and select the next file area. Repeat this for every Cd-Rom file area. You can still have Wildcat up and running on other lines while you are performing these operations. It will have no effect on operation. However you will get a few lock retry errors. STEP #7 Wow, didn't step 6 take a long...... time.... Ok, now we've specified all of the actual paths to the files on the cd-rom, in the file database. Our next goal is to now move the files into one file area. i.e. instead of having games #1, games #2, we will just have games. (this all corresponds to how you told WCCD0 to place your 0k files. Start WCPRO again..... Choose match files Choose the file area to move. Based upon the previous screen draw, I might match file areas 55,56, & 57 Now press F10. Now goto change, and I can now move this files to file area 61 if they were all communication files. Your Screen should look something like this: ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ³ Wildcat! WCPRO Copyright (c) 1991 by Mustang Software, Inc. Version 3.01 ³ ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°³ WCPRO Main Menu ³°°°°°°°°°°ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ Database Statistics ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸°° °°°°°°°°ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ Change Files ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͸ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ UseÕÍÍÍͳ ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Bro³ Update file date: No update ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ Fil³ ³ Update file size: N ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Mat³ Update file cost: N New cost: 0 ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ Mes³ ³ Move file: Y To area: 61 On disk: N ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Lis³ Add keyword: ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ Que³ ³ Never overwrite: Don't change ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Cha³ Never delete: Don't change ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ Sta³ ³ Free download: Don't change ³s) ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Del³ Offline: Don't change ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ Com³ ³ Add files from disk: N ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ³ Rep³ Log file: MOVE61.TXT ³ ³°° °°°°°°°°³ ExiÔÍÍÍͳ ³ÍÍÍÍÍ;°° °°°°°°°°ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ;°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° F1-Help F2-Pick F10-Go ESC-Abort This will now move the matched files into one file area to be listed when I user is listing files in Wildcat. ALL NODES SHOULD BE DOWN when performing this operation, otherwise if a user tries to list a file, they will wonder why the sysem is so slow, since you are taking almost all power of the complete file database. This doesnt take to long, and depends on how many files you have. Perform this for the file areas to be moved, until done. STEP #8 Ok, now goto make wild and delete those temp dir's you made, and then go to each file area you defined for the CD-ROM, and in the place asking for the file sub-dir loction replace the Cd-rom location, with the location of the 0k files on your hard drive. Now you are finished. This is a time consuming process that could be speeded up with changes to makewild. Let's all ask Jim Harrer for the following changes to WCFILE Enhancements to WCFILE wish list: 1. Option to tag files as on Cd-Rom 2. For each file area, the ability to enter the actual cd-rom file path 3. alternate paths to work 4. Automatic creation of the 0k files in a choosed sub dir, when option number one is selected. Well have I left anything out ? Good luck entering your files. Currently I have 2 Cd-Rom drives on-line, and I'm looking at adding a 3rd. With Cd-roms costing so little it is the best way of file storage in my opinion for BBS's ! If you have any question you can leave them on the cathouse, but I only call once a week or two. Or you can leave me a message on RIME in the sysop or the cd- rom conference. Or you can call my BBS. Good Luck ! Gary Stark Camera Ready BBS (714)789-0905 (714)789-1064 HST rime ->CAMRDY