ARC'd Messages from CooperWorks free BBS ======================================== Madison, Wi 300/1200/2400 BAUD 24hr (608)251-7734 ======================================================= Laser Printer/DeskTop Publishing Conference #4 ============================================== Includes Messages #1 through #289 (Feb 1, 1987 - March 17, 1987) __________________________________________________________________ Date: 02-01-87 (20:41) Number: 1 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: (N/A) Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I'm interested in knowing how many people using this board use or have access to HP Laserjet or Laserjet+ printers. Please respond if you do. If there are enough of us, perhaps we could start a special conference or something like that. How about people who use other brands of laser printers on PC's? Date: 02-02-87 (05:05) Number: 2 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: BOB FLORES Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I use an HP LASERJET all the time. Mostly form other packages like Microsoft WORD, though. You having problems? Date: 02-02-87 (17:05) Number: 4 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: JOHN SOPSICK Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: RECEIVER ONLY I am the computer specialist for the Department of Surgery at the UW Hospital. We have 4 LaserJets and one Plus. I would be interested in such a conference. One piece of news that may interest you ... HP has just finished work on the HP LaserJet II. It will be announced officially next month. It is supposed to be smaller, more powerful, and cheaper! See Feb. 3 issue of PC Week for details. Date: 02-02-87 (23:05) Number: 5 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I'm using the QuadLaser which emulates the HP Laserjet+ among others... -Kenn- Date: 02-03-87 (02:53) Number: 7 To: JOHN SOPSICK Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We have 3 Laserjet+'s (Laserjets+ ?). I read the article in PC Week today about the Laserjet II - sounds exciting. I had been thinking of ordering one of the new upgrade kits to upgrade one of our +'s to 2 meg with the DDL Page Desc language but sounds like it may be almost as cheap to get one of the new Laserjets. Also, even tho the upgrade kit has supposedly been available for a couple of months now, I haven't read or heard of any of them being installed. Do you do any font downloading or high res graphics on your Laserjets? Date: 02-03-87 (03:03) Number: 8 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE How do you like your QuadLaser (or do I remember that you sell them)? What does Laserjet+ emulation mean? Does that mean you can download the HP fonts w/o change or that it uses the same ESC codes or that you can plug in the HP font cartridges. We have several brands of PC's that run software the same but it seems like mixing brands of laser printers in the same shop would cause confusion. Did I hear that the Quadlaser prints blacker blacks than the Laserjet? Date: 02-04-87 (02:02) Number: 10 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Greg & everyone else interested in HP Laserjets, other PC laser printers, desktop publishing, graphics on laser printers & other related topics...there seems to be enough interest in the subject to start a conference (and besides Chuck talked me into it) so hopefully we can get that going soon and there will be a FLASH when it's ready. Meanwhile please send me a message if you have any suggestions on any of the above subjects. Date: 02-04-87 (02:22) Number: 11 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE On specific questions you asked, I'm pretty expert on HP Laserjets and Laserjet+. Have followed literature on others but have not used them so any answers will be to the best of my knowledge but others may have better knowledge about non-HP laser printers. The QMS KISS is at the low end of laser printers so I'm pretty sure it doesn't have Post Script or any other printer description language (as the HP Laserjets don't either so far...yea I know DDS has been announced as an upgrade but I haven't read that anyone actually has installed the upgrade and it hasn't been reviewed yet). Post Script isn't essential for most applications until you get to really fancy formatting (desk top publishing sorts of applications) and if you're interested in that level of sophisticated use, you might be better off with something more powerful than KISS to begin with. Post Script is the best known printer description language because the APPLE Laser uses it and Apple Laser users think it's the greatest. Hewlet Packard announced that they would use DDL (I hope I have that right) on their future laser printers but I don't think any existing laser printer uses DDL. Xerox has their own printer description language whose name escapes me at the moment. And to further complicate the issue, IBM will probably come out with a laser printer this year that may use one of these 3 but more likely will have their own that may or may not be better than any of these. I'm partial to HP's because I've used them and because virtually all PC software supports them. You might want to wait a month or two to purchase one tho because HP is rumored to be about to announce the LASERJET II - half the size, more memory, holds 2 font cartridges at once, more memory, at $2500 ! Date: 02-04-87 (02:24) Number: 12 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I don't know what an LED printer is or what that has to do with cutting the price of laser printers. Can you elaborate? Date: 02-04-87 (08:49) Number: 13 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: CARTER LUSHER Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes to 'use it yourself'. We started using it for graphics, but then we installed a Macintosh & LaserWriter combo for desktop publishing and the HP then languished in the 'high speed/high quality' category for a while. NOW, it is impossible to get on the Mac so that we are now looking into revving up the HP again. Tried Fancy Fonts on the HP. Does excellent work, however ... It is slower than syrup on a cold day. Plus the fact that it is typesetting codes rather than WYSIWYG desktop publishing makes it less attractive to use. ::cjl:: Date: 02-04-87 (09:38) Number: 15 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sorry to intrude in your HPLJ thread, but I saw a mention of Fancy Font. If you like the results, and if you use MSWORD, then the same folks (Softcraft) have a fantastic package called Laserfonts which does it all: download specific character sets to the HPLJ+ AND create customized .PRD files that reflect exactly what's inside the printer so that you can use Word's built-in formatting capabilities with the downloaded fonts.....Excellent package in my opinion........Dan Date: 02-04-87 (09:43) Number: 16 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sure, sounds good. We have a few of the old unimproved HPLJ and are getting a LJ+ soon. I've had some minimal experience with the LJ+ on a consulting job I did a while back and these little beasts are exciting. Count me in....we do both graphics and text, with no firm plans for publishing yet, but who knows.....dan Date: 02-04-87 (10:59) Number: 17 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: JOHN SOPSICK Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: RECEIVER ONLY We have not done any font downloading. Is this easy to do? Are there any public domain fonts to be downloaded? I have been experimenting with high-res graphics. I am currently using Microsoft chart to produce slides of bar charts, ect. This is very straight-forward and the results have been good. One question worth discussing about LaserJets is ... which if any public domain utilities for LJ are people using? Are they any good? Date: 02-05-87 (00:19) Number: 18 To: JOHN SOPSICK Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE John, regarding downloading of fonts to HP, I presume you know that you must have a Laserjet+ to download. Downloading can be done with a DOS command COPY /B however it's a little tricky figuring out what else to send with the font to activate it and give it a number. Also you need a font to download. The only public domain downloadable font that I'm aware of is a very handy one that allows the Laserjet+ to print IBM screen graphics with a SHIFT-PRTSCREEN. That's on this board with a name like LASERJET.ARC or HP*.ARC Date: 02-05-87 (05:17) Number: 19 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: BOB FLORES Read: NO Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Well, I don't do much fancy with it. Have never tried FANCY FONT with it but keep meaning to. We are looking forward to using it with ALDUS PageMaker for the PC. But we have to buy additional RAM for it first. I hadn't heard about a new one coming out. Any details? Date: 02-05-87 (05:22) Number: 20 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: NONE From: BOB FLORES Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE More expensive, yes. But the 3812 will draw circles around anything else on the market today. It's too bad, tho, that IBM uses their own protocol for the thing. Not much can talk to it. Date: 02-05-87 (22:37) Number: 22 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Thanks for your interest in a Laser printer conference Dan. We are proceeding with setting it up. We've been using the Laserjet+ for over a year now and are very pleased with it. Are you printing mostly text on your Laserjets or do you do graphics as well? Date: 02-05-87 (22:41) Number: 23 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I've heard that FancyWord is a nice product for those using MSWORD. We use Volkswriter 3 and OfficeWriter and a little Word Perfect so we haven't tried FancyWord. We do use FancyFont & Laserfonts from SoftCraft and they produce nice results at a reasonable price. Disadvantages are ease of use, font modification and print speed. Date: 02-05-87 (22:47) Number: 24 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I certainly agree with your comments on Fancy Font. Printing speeds up considerably with LaserFonts from SoftCraft but you need a LJ+ and ease of use is not its strong suit. Also still no WYSIWYG! I keep thinking that one of these years the larger installed base of PC's will result in computer graphics developments that outdo the MAC but I'm still waiting. Date: 02-06-87 (09:55) Number: 27 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I like my Quad very much. Laserjet emulation means you can download fonts without change and use the same ESC codes. No go on plugging in font cartridges -- but with 2 meg, there is room for 60 on-line fonts. Because the Quad uses the Richo engine, the blacks are much blacker (in fact, black, period) as opposed Canon kinda dark grey. More importantly, the engine is rated for more copies and there is no service charge upscaling for "excess" copies in one month. I admit, reluctantly, that I am a dealer for quad... but that only slightly colors my opinion. I really do like the darn thing. -Kenn- Date: 02-06-87 (13:28) Number: 29 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE What do you think this will do to the price of the existing HP LJ line and other competitive products? Date: 02-06-87 (13:30) Number: 30 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Text so far, with a couple minor grafix applications. We're getting a HPLJ+ soon and we'll look at doing more exciting things with it. I have limited experience with the LJ+....I set one up on a consulting job a few months back and installed Softcraft's Laserfonts and Microsoft Word, a dynamite combination.......Dan Date: 02-06-87 (13:31) Number: 31 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Laserfont was really made with MS Word in mind; it is hard to beat that combinaon since you have access to all fonts/sizes directly from Word as normal formatting options.....Dan Date: 02-06-87 (19:42) Number: 33 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Would you like some suggestions about some exciting commercial graphics software for the Laserjet+? Date: 02-06-87 (19:46) Number: 34 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE IF it happens as noted in PC Week, sound like the bottom prices might not change much but that you could get a lot more capability for under $3000 than at present. I think the LASERJET II would replace the + but the basic Laserjet for primary text applications might continue to be carried at a reduced price ($1500 mail order or so maybe) Date: 02-06-87 (19:48) Number: 35 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes if it had come out before the HP, it might have taken over the market but now HP has it sewed up for the present because of its installed base. Date: 02-07-87 (01:47) Number: 36 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Apparently Quad is going after the "high-end" desk top publishing market. They have announced a PostScript controller board and also are now including full "typesetters" fonts in Helvetica and TimesRoman in 72 point down to 6 point with the 2 meg model. Also announced is a desktop publishing package bundled with SCLaserPlus. As long as the cheaper 1.5 meg versions are available, the Quad is still a pretty good buy at a "street price" of around $3,000. The 2 meg is listed at $4500, street price lower. -Kenn- Date: 02-07-87 (02:14) Number: 37 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The QUAD Laser upgrades you mentioned sound very nice! I've never used POSTSCRIPT..have you? Date: 02-07-87 (02:33) Number: 38 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: (N/A) Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Did you read the extensive articles on desktop publishing in the Feb 10 issue of PC Mag?They reviewed 6 packages and concluded that Ventura Publisher is the best and that PageMaker is second. I haven't used any desktop publisher but the idea sounds attractive. However they sound difficult to learn (as well as expensive). On the PC, has anyone used any of these packages & what do you think of them?> Date: 02-07-87 (15:56) Number: 39 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: SYSOP Read: (N/A) Subj: LASERS/DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes! Yes! Yes! CONFERENCE 4 ON LASER PRINTERS & DESKTOP PUBLISHING IS NOW OPEN TO ALL!!! Join Conference 4 to continue the thread on HP Lasers. Sometime tomorrow (Sunday 2/8/87) I will move ALL related messages from the Main Menu Area to that Conference (at present the first 26 have been moved). Marty Shannon is going to Host this Conference, and judging from the response from all he deserves a round of applause for his initiative and ideas. ...CC Date: 02-07-87 (22:10) Number: 40 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: CHUCK COOPER Read: YES Subj: MOVING MESSAGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE For you, sure I'd be happy to move all of your laser messages here. [Well, o.k., I actually added the Conf listing before everyone was registered in this conference, so i had to move a lot of messages here!] P.S. Did you check out DOOR #2 in Conference 3? It was put there after your mention of it, so you had better add to the stories! Date: 02-08-87 (11:44) Number: 45 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 33 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sure, so would probably everybody else. Incidentally, I have recently been involved in the beta testing of a 'universal' graphics program that reads almost all file formats (READMAC, BSAVED, MSPAINT (PC Paintbrush), DGI etc...), can combine them etc... and has a Laserjet output option. Looks quite interesting and some of those graphics look excellent on the unimproved HPLJ...But then, I'm sworn to secrecy since I don't know whether the author will go shareware, commercial, or give it away....Dan Date: 02-08-87 (11:48) Number: 46 To: CHUCK COOPER Refer#: 40 From: DAN MOORE Read: NO Subj: MOVING MESSAGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That's a gotcha if I ever saw one.....here I am recommending something assuming nobody would listen and 24 hours later it's up and ready for me to do something with iy.....OK, I'll play adventure......Dan Date: 02-08-87 (11:50) Number: 47 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: (N/A) Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Is the speed of the current machines limited by the interface speed (ie, serial vs. parallel), the speed of the PC, the speed of the printer, or all three? Which has the most influence, especially in graphics mode? Date: 02-08-87 (11:51) Number: 48 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: (N/A) Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Has anyone used brand X re-filled toner cartridges? Are there any good and is it worth risking voiding the warranty? Also, are there colored toners available for the Laserjet line? Date: 02-08-87 (18:10) Number: 50 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 12 From: GREG JACKSON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have heard that LED printers are in the works which will cut the price of electrostatic computer printing by a factor of 2 or more. The laser printers are a lot like the Xerox machines where the light on a drum allows it to pick up ink (toner) and transfer it onto paper. In a laser printer the laser zips over the drum and makes the pattern that would be done by the big flash in a Xerox machine. In an LED printer the laser is replaced by a big array of LED lights. I think the pattern is carried to the drum on a bunch of fiber optics. If what I heard is correct these printers will be able to match the 300 dots per inch at a much lower price. I doubt they will be able to do this a 12 pages a minute but if they work at all and show up for $500-$800 it will be a keen new toy to play with. Date: 02-08-87 (18:16) Number: 52 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GREG JACKSON Read: (N/A) Subj: POSTSCRIPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Does the world begin and end with HP? I need a printer that has Postscript. QMS makes a KISS printer with postscript but they bumped the price from $1998 to $4560 when they added postscript. Am I forced to get an Apple? What else is out there? Date: 02-09-87 (01:33) Number: 58 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 47 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We originally got a HP Laerjet about 2 years ago (I think) - right after they first came out. The graphics print speed was awful! About 10 minutes or more per page. The original Laserjet had only a serial port option. When we converted that Laserjet to a + about a year later, the difference in print speed was dramatic (like 1-2 minutes compared to 10) The conversion to the + included conversion to a parallel port also. The speedof the PC (and for some software a math coprocessor) has the second biggest impact after the parallel port. The speed of the Laserjet (when printing graphics) is only a very minor factor in speed of printing an original page. However, if you specify 10 copies, all subsequent pages after the first, print at the rate of 8 pages a minute! Date: 02-09-87 (01:41) Number: 59 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 48 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I've never heard of any non-HP brand cartridges - I've wondered why other firms weren't jumping on the bad wagon - must be a big markup there! HP now sells brown cartridges in addition to black - that's the only ther color I've heard of - Ayone know why other colors aren't offered?It seems like red, green, blue would produce neat looking pages and, with multiple passes thru the printer, you could get a multiple color page. Date: 02-09-87 (01:48) Number: 61 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 50 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You refreshed my memory - I did read about the LED alternative to lasers for hi res printing. I don't know when/if will make it to the marketplace in a printer. Let us know if you hear anything more about it. Date: 02-09-87 (01:59) Number: 64 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 57 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE How about DTP as short hand for Desk Top Publishing? Date: 02-09-87 (22:23) Number: 69 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: BOB CRAIG Read: (N/A) Subj: CORDATA LP-300 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Does anyone out there have, or know someone else who has a Cordata LP-300 laser printer. I have had some difficulty in using it from within a dBASE III+ command file and would gladly exchange any information I have with anyone else. Thanks, BAC Date: 02-09-87 (22:48) Number: 70 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 65 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I guess that makes sense when you think about it. The Laserjet and the Apple Laser both have the same Canon engine. I understand the Wang Laser IS a Laserjet with a different cover and $2000 added onto the price. Date: 02-10-87 (16:09) Number: 74 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 50 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Isn't the IBM 3812 Pageprinter an LED array machine? It is supposed to go about 12 ppm, but then it costs twice as much as whatever's in second place....Dan Date: 02-10-87 (16:14) Number: 76 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 58 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE In view of the fairly high cost of upgrading a laserjet to a laserjet+, would you recommend it rather than buying a brand new printer altogether which has the capabilities to begin with (AST, Quadlaser, Kiss etc...)....Dan Date: 02-10-87 (16:16) Number: 77 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 59 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes, the reason I wondered about the color was the fact that Canon sells color toner cartridges for their desktop copiers which use the same basic image engine as the laserjet.....Dan Date: 02-11-87 (02:13) Number: 79 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 76 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have to admit that I'm prejudiced in favor of HP, since we have several of those, and I'm not anxious to bring something else that may not be compatable. Also, just about ALL software now support Laserjet and that's important. I had COMMODORE 64 before there was any software for it, EGA before anyone supported it, 3270-PC and which still has no support, and Laserjet before there was much software support. I'm now enjoying the luxury of EVERYONE supporting Laserjet and EGA ! So if you decide to go with AST or Quad Laser, make sure to ask sales reps which software supports them! Re cost, agree that upgrades are expensive. HP rips off customers for upgrades worse than LOTUS. If you are not in a big hurry you might want to wait a couple of months for possible announcement from HP (but no guarantee that there will be one) Date: 02-11-87 (02:15) Number: 80 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 77 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I spoke to HP about color cartridges. They say it's under development but have no date of availability yet. I'm not sure why colored ink powder should be more difficult to put in a cartridge than black. Does anyone know anything about colored ink powder in laser printers? Date: 02-11-87 (04:54) Number: 81 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 74 From: BOB FLORES Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sorry to but in.... The 3812 is indeed an LED array machine. I use one on occasion, and like it a lot. But there's not a whole lot out there that supports it. Sigh. Date: 02-11-87 (06:32) Number: 82 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 79 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE So YOU're one of the six people with a 3270 PC.....I got a sneaky suspicion that this box will be an antique before its time...We also use the HP lasers pretty much for the same reasons you do. It has the widest distribution and service, if ever needed, is no problem. Because it was first, it has the largest installed user base and, as you said, it is as much a standard in the laser crowd as EPSON is for dot matrix devices......Dan Date: 02-11-87 (06:34) Number: 83 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 80 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE As I said in an earlier message, the image generation technology used in the Canon engine is practically identical to the one they use in their copiers, which have multiple color toners available. I don't think there is any technical problem doing it. Maybe there just wasn't any demand for it..... Date: 02-11-87 (06:46) Number: 85 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: (N/A) Subj: DOWNLOADABLE FONTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I am familiar with Softcraft's Laserfonts package. Are there any other downloadable font packages for the HPLJ+ out there? Laserfonts works well and has a facility to customize Microsoft Word printer description files to give easy access to the downloaded fonts.....any other products available with similar features? Date: 02-11-87 (11:33) Number: 86 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 37 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes... I've spent a lot of time producing flyers, catalogs and such on a Mac + LaserWriter. Like the printer, hate the mac! -Kenn- Date: 02-11-87 (12:39) Number: 88 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 74 From: CARTER LUSHER Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE RE PagePrinter. Yes, it is a LED array machine (I've got one in my office temporarily for a project). It has an absurb price on it, something like $8 grand or more. The speed claims can not be duplicated. It is barely faster than the HP to matter what you do: WP, dBASE or COPY TO PRN. The quality of the print is very nice, tho. Needless to say there are not many software applications that specifically support this machine, the 3812 being relatively new. It has two paper bins (500 & 200 sheets each, approx). ::cjl:: Date: 02-11-87 (18:49) Number: 91 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 83 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The more I think about using various colors of single color laserjet cartridges in the Laserjet, if that ever becomes available, the more use I can think of for it. We often compose a graphics page or document cover by feeding a laser printed sheet back thru the LJ to print another image from another software product. With the print positioning always being very precise, why not print several colors on the same page! Date: 02-11-87 (22:09) Number: 94 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: 86 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You're the first MAC user I've heard say that he didn't love his MAC! s Date: 02-11-87 (22:34) Number: 96 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 64 From: GREG JACKSON Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE DTP is great for Desk Top Publishing but that's not the problem. I wish someone would tell me how to pronounce WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). There has to be a better way to communicate this simple idea. Date: 02-11-87 (22:50) Number: 97 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GREG JACKSON Read: (N/A) Subj: IBM PATTERNS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE IBM is truly a strange beast. Someone noted that they didn't follow any standard with their laser printer because they try to lead rather than follow. I'm not sure that this is really true. They are just generally screwed up all around. In trying to design compatable products they can't even follow their own lead. If you want an EGA that will run all CGA stuff then you have to buy a Chips & Technology board, not an IBM. If you want a laptop that runs LOTUS then you have to buy anything BUT the clamshell. For a number of reasons it appears that IBM is not in control of their own technology. I sometimes read these columns that try to predict what IBM will do next. The columns that depend on leaks and rumors work pretty well. The ones that try to predict what they will do next by market analysis are never dependable. It seems that if you try to predict what they will do next by analizing the situation and deciding what is the intelligent thing to do is, that is rarely what IBM does. I shouldn't get too down on IBM. If they offer me a job I'd take it right away, I can't say that about DEC. It's like the guy down the street says....."If I'd only bought a million dollars of IBM in 65' I'd be a rich man today." Date: 02-12-87 (01:53) Number: 98 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: (N/A) Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE If you are interested in keeping up with the latest developments with Hewlett Packard Laserjets, check out the page 1 story in the latest PC WEEK (Feb 10, 1987). HP will announce a new line of Laserjets on March 2 and will slash the prices of the the original Laserjets by up to 25% and will eventually drop them. The high-end new Laserjet 2000 will print at 20 pages per minute and retail for $19,995. More in the price range of most of us will be the new Laserjet+ (called the Laserjet Series II that will sell for $2,495. Sounds great BUT-- in order to use the DDL printer description language (HP version of PostScript) you have to purchase the HP Publisher Kit for an additional $2,495. And to get full page 300X300 graphics, you have to buy an additional 2 meg of memory for $1000, bringing the final price to a mere $5,910!! The basic $2,495 Laserjet II will have 512K of memory, expandable to 4.5 meg, 3 expansion slots for memory boards & the DDL, will weigh only 32 lbs and have a smaller footprint. The $19,995 Laserjet 2000 will print on both sides of page, will hold 3 cartridge fonts simultaneously, and will come standard with 34 fonts. Anyone have any more info or comments on this? Date: 02-12-87 (02:00) Number: 100 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 96 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE WYSIWYG is pronounceable by the DTP (hope you caught our new acronym) gurus as I learned last fall at a DTP conference in Chicago. Try pronouncing it as Wisiwig (and you have to say it very fast so you don't sound like hick). Date: 02-12-87 (02:06) Number: 101 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 95 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Re: Ventura vs. PageMaker, the latest PC WEEK article on HP Laserjets also mentioned that HP has aligned themselves with Aldus PageMaker and with MS Windows so that seems like it will help PageMaker corner a sizeable share of the DTP market. HP will also introduce a flat bed 300-dpi image scanner for $1,995. Date: 02-12-87 (02:14) Number: 102 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 85 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: DOWNLOADABLE FONTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Dan - I'm not sure if you are asking about other fonts to download or the download software. There are lots of both. For download software, the HP PCLPAK software comes with their downloadable fonts (it's not real friendly but it works). With some of their non-advertised font packages, ATL1M3 ATE0 S7=60 S11=55 V1 X1 S0=0 Date: 02-12-87 (02:23) Number: 103 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: CONTINUING MSG 102 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE With some of their downloadable font packages, HP supplies a download routine in a BAT file using COPY /B for the actual downloading. Once we learned how to use COPY /B for downloading fonts, we can download much faster than LASERFONTS. Regarding availability of fonts to download, they're all over the place. Lots of options from HP although sometime hard to find any one person at HP who knows all the options. Besides Softcraft, another is VPS - the as well. Date: 02-12-87 (09:35) Number: 108 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MIKE FARNHAM Read: (N/A) Subj: QUADLASR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE To whom it may concern. We have A QUADRAM LASER printer where I now work. This Laser Printer is a whole new ballgame compared to the HP LaserJet at my old job. Here is some of the featurese. 512K RAM {Currently I have this much on the AT I use!} EPSON, QUME, HP LaserJet EMULATION {Currently does not support HP LaserJet +} Toner Cartridges are rated at 6,000 pages OPC Belt is rated at 10,000 pages. We are currently using it with PC-WRITE v. 2.07 and LOTUS 1-2-3 v 2.01 We have been able to use the PrintGraph Program, but have not yet successfully printed a SPREADSHEET {strange?} Any questions or comments are welcomed. Thanks, Mike Farnham Date: 02-12-87 (09:37) Number: 110 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 91 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Absolutely. And if the colors you use are cyan, magenta, yellow, and black, you can make just about ANY color you want. Do it all in a single pass and you've got yourself a true color laser printer, probably available in the next 2 or 3 years..... Date: 02-12-87 (09:41) Number: 112 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 96 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE weezeeweeg Date: 02-12-87 (09:51) Number: 113 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 97 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: IBM PATTERNS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE If you bought $10,000 worth of IBM in 65 you'd be rich today. I've worked in large IBM mainframe shops for 18 years and I have some experience with their corporate culture. Until 1981, the only people they dealt with were corporations. And they did set a lot of standards, and they were extremely successful--80% of the free world's mainframes is nothing to sneeze at--. Copying a mainframe takes an enormous investment, and keeping up with IBM takes a company almost as big as them to begin with. Little competition in that field. But when they tried to take away the microcomputer lead from Apple, they found themselves dealing with millions of individuals--a huge monolith whose collective opinion IBM could not alter or shape as they did their corporate customers--. And, of course, their system was wide opened and it did not take much of an investment to duplicate the hardware. Eventually compatible BIOS were developed and the market gained its own momentum independently of IBM. I really have no idea what lurks within IBM's darker recesses, but I am not sure they can sell anyone a machine that is totally new, incompatible with the established PC standard(s), and contains proprietary technology. I think they're more likely to attack it via software (ie, a new IBM operating system for 286/386 PCs).... Date: 02-12-87 (09:54) Number: 114 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 103 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: CONTINUING MSG 102 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes, thanks for the info. We use MS Word with HPLJ and it looks like they only support HP's downloadable fonts. Softcraft addresses this shortcoming quite nicely and others should follow their example.... Date: 02-12-87 (20:10) Number: 116 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 110 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE If it's that easy, why hasn't HP or some independent come out with a color toner cartridge for the Laserjet? It should certainly sell well if applications were pointed out to people. Date: 02-14-87 (07:41) Number: 121 To: MIKE FARNHAM Refer#: 108 From: DAN MOORE Read: NO Subj: QUADLASR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE With the available emulation, what's preventing you from printing a spreadsheet? Also, is emulation all that's available, or does it also offer its own, proprietary mode? <> Date: 02-14-87 (07:45) Number: 122 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 116 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Good question. I'll call my local HP contacts and ask them why.... <> Date: 02-16-87 (13:07) Number: 130 To: CHUCK COOPER Refer#: 127 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Chuck, what about c2 (c-squared)? Dan Date: 02-16-87 (21:18) Number: 131 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 130 From: CHUCK COOPER Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Maybe I'll just go by -=*The Big Guy*=- in the future...was never much for math anyway. Or, when in the DTP Conference, simply TBG. It sorta has a ring to it, no? TBG in DTP signing off Date: 02-17-87 (04:58) Number: 135 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: CURTIS COOPER Read: YES Subj: RAGS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Marty, I am looking for newsletters,magazines or periodicals that have to do with DP. I have seen the mag Publish! but have an appetite for more. You or any of your members have answers? Thanks, CCC Date: 02-17-87 (09:49) Number: 136 To: CHUCK COOPER Refer#: 131 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Chuck, you're overworked and your brain is melting down...You belong on the Executive Network BBS; try it sometime. Dan Date: 02-18-87 (00:32) Number: 142 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 94 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sorry guys... I used the MAC under protest. The reliability of the 20 meg hard drive was suspect, and I REALLY don't like the keyboard. Granted you can do some neat things, but for long-term keyboarding, the thing just didn't want to cooperate. I guess I just like the IBM machines and all the various clones. But I also don't like WYSIWYG... I much prefer to SEE the tiny type, and I like imbedded commands. Oh well. -Kenn- Date: 02-18-87 (00:41) Number: 143 To: MIKE FARNHAM Refer#: 108 From: KENN FLEE Read: NO Subj: QUADLASR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I think you underestimated the amount of RAM in your QuadLaser. Unless it's a very early version, it should have a minimum of 1.5 meg, with the additional 512K of RAM user installable (the manual actually has instructions for installing 2 banks of 150ns 256K chips; 16 total). Using the included font editor, I "corrected" one of the Times Roman fonts to be more "typographically" correct and have used it with great success with WordPerfect, getting nicely justified bold and roman text. I started with 12pt, modifying widths in both the font and in Wordperfect, then use 14* in the format line. A new ROM set sent from Quad in December increased the HP emualation to include most plus features. -Kenn- PS. The newest Quads come with 2 meg standard. Date: 02-18-87 (06:08) Number: 144 To: CHUCK COOPER Refer#: 141 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The Executive Network BBS is located in Mount Vernon, NY, at (914) 667-4567. I'm not sure where the executive part comes from, but the network part relates to the fact that the board is run by Cyllon systems who specialize in networking PCs and does PC onsulting of all sorts. It has the craziest message base and educated users exchanging one-liners all day long.....miss a day and you'll never catch up (ie, 100 new messages since you last logged on). Andy Keeves is one of the friendlier sysops and makes all new users feel welcome.....Dan Date: 02-18-87 (22:41) Number: 146 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 145 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That's the same pronounciation I suggested about 85 messages ago but you phoneticized it better than I did! Did anyone suggest WIGINWIS (What I get is NEVER what I see)? It's even pronounceable! Date: 02-19-87 (07:17) Number: 147 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 138 From: CURTIS COOPER Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Dan, I like the C Cubed. C to the 3rd Date: 02-19-87 (19:25) Number: 149 To: CURTIS COOPER Refer#: 147 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW USER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Now, that's real class! ----Dan---- Date: 02-23-87 (15:31) Number: 152 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: CARTER LUSHER Read: (N/A) Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE UWHC is interested in buying Ventura Publishing but we are reluctant without seeing it in an actual work environment without a sales person hanging over our shoulder. Does anybody in Madison have a copy of this worthy software installed and would not mind having a couple of 'tourists' looking over your shoulder for a short time, please leave a message or call Carter at 263-4126. Thanx, ::cjl:: Date: 02-24-87 (06:43) Number: 154 To: BOB FLORES Refer#: 153 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sorry for intruding, but do you really think IBM can be successful in introducing a closed architecture machine when there's almost 10 million PC-MS-DOS machines out there? I'm not sure their corporate customer base would buy them any more than the regular public, and it may just be another PC Jr or PR RT as far as success goes. ----Dan---- Date: 02-24-87 (17:04) Number: 155 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: CARTER LUSHER Read: (N/A) Subj: SUBJECTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We have made a mockery of the SUBJECT line in messages! If you do a Quick scan, the vast majority of the message subjects are "HP Laserjet" which is not relevant to most of the messages. Lets stamp out SUBJECT laziness!! If you are starting a new rant -- put a new subject! This will also help out on THREADs etc. ::cjl:: Date: 02-25-87 (03:11) Number: 156 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 155 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: SUBJECTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Carter, you must be an old systems analyst - trying to bring order out of chaos! Sounds like a good idea though to make subjects more specific but that seems to be a problem on all boards with message threads. Date: 02-25-87 (10:17) Number: 157 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 155 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: SUBJECTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You make a good point, but some of the problem can be traced to our inability to change subject while replying to a message; by default the subject of the reply is that of the origin message. PCBoard sure could use a "Change Subject" option when entering a reply, don't you think? Also, are you suggesting that messages be limited to a single topic? If I am asked three separate questions in a single message, the only way to satisfy your requirement would be to enter three separate messages with new subjects which would, in fact, sever the thread between the original message and its replies. ----Dan---- Date: 02-26-87 (22:56) Number: 159 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: (N/A) Subj: COLOR LASERJET CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º Answer to question about color cartridges for LASERJETS º ÇÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ ÇÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ º I called Hewlett Packard's Laserjet Hotline to ask them º º whether there is any possibility that they would be º º producing colored cartridges for the Laserjets. º º º º They do sell brown in addition to black but that's all. º º They have tested other color cartridges but found that º º it takes too much color toner to make useable colors º º so it would be prohibitively expensive to print in º º colors on the Laserjet. So they have no plans to º º manufacture color cartridges. Too bad! º ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ Date: 02-27-87 (05:14) Number: 160 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 154 From: BOB FLORES Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE No, I think it's going to be disasterous for them. But I think they're still gonna do it. Date: 02-27-87 (10:00) Number: 161 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 159 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: COLOR LASERJET CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You pre-empted my own message, Marty; I also called HP. However, the latest issue of PC Magazine, page 380 (the PC Marketplace ads), Shows that LaserExpress, 461 Lakeview . W., Mobile, Al. 36609, at (205)343-6646 or (800)345-2737 sells Black, brown, and blue LJ cartridges. Obviously, the point made in Marty's message re. excessive toner usage for other colors is true: the blue cartridge costs $134.95, while the black and brown are $82.95 and $96.95, respectively. ----Dan---- Date: 02-27-87 (10:05) Number: 162 To: BOB FLORES Refer#: 160 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That's one big advantage IBM has; they can make disastrous mistakes and still survive, but this cannot last forever. The only way they could be successful would be to introduce a real value-added machine at lower-than-clone prices....but I still think the majority of existing users aren't going to throw away what they have and line up at IBM's door....On the other hand, they may get wise, admit the PC market got away from them, and abandon it altogether. ----Dan---- Date: 02-27-87 (21:35) Number: 163 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 162 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE There's no way IBM can afford to abandon the PC market. It's too big and the future of PC's and mainframes are too closely tied for IBM to concede the PC market to clones. Besides many IBM customers still wait to buy from IBM. Fewer than before but still a substantial number. Date: 02-28-87 (09:44) Number: 165 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 163 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I am a big IBM customer (spend well over a million a year) and I gave up buying IBM about two years ago. Couldn't justify the cost of their logo. ----Dan---- Date: 02-28-87 (12:14) Number: 166 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 152 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE One of the groups I'm doing work for has just installed Ventura on a Wyse AT clone with the BIG screen.... I'll check and let you know, but in any case, since I'm supposed to be working on the thing, will give you my impressions anyway. ( bought to replace and/or supplement the MAC/Applewriter combo they are currently using) -Kenn- Date: 03-01-87 (15:42) Number: 167 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 157 From: CARTER LUSHER Read: YES Subj: SUBJECTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE By no means am I suggesting a single thought per message. It is just that most messages will have a predominate theme, thus the idea behind a single subject. This all came about when I tried to find some previous messages about Ventura Publishing. ::cjl:: Date: 03-01-87 (15:47) Number: 168 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: 166 From: CARTER LUSHER Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Thanks Kenn. Will be eager to hear about the Ventura/Wyse adventure. We are thinking about doing the same -- supplementing/replacing a MAC/Pagemaker setup. The Mac fanatics are going bonkers bad mouthing the Ventura (based on review articles I give them). So it is hard for me to know if their ravings have any credibility. ::cjl:: Date: 03-01-87 (16:49) Number: 169 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 165 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Do you spend over $1,000,000 on just PC hardware/software or does that include mainframe costs as well? If just PC's, that's a lota PC's! What PC hardware/software are you buying if not IBM? Date: 03-01-87 (16:54) Number: 170 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: 166 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I'm anxious to hear someone compare Ventura to PC-Pagemaker - someone who has tried both. Sounds like Pagemaker may be easier to use and that Ventura may be a bit more powerful? Pagemaker runs under MS-Windows and I don't care that much for Windows from the times I've tried it. Does Ventura run stand-alone? Date: 03-02-87 (06:56) Number: 172 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 169 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Nope, the million bucks is what we pay IBM each year for mainframe, peripherals, software, hardware maintenance etc.... Actually, we build our own PCs inhouse (XT compatible dual-speed). We have been buying Packard-Bell AT compatibles, very good machines with excellent support. ----Dan---- Date: 03-02-87 (11:17) Number: 173 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOHN SOPSICK Read: (N/A) Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Is there an "official" HP BBS which supports LJ and LJ+ printers? I called the HP Hotline and the HP Regional Support Center and they knew nothing of this, but they are notably inefficient in such matters. Date: 03-02-87 (21:06) Number: 175 To: JOHN SOPSICK Refer#: 173 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE As far as I have been able to determine from the folks at HP, they don't even understand what a computer bulletin board is much less having one of their own in operation! I have contacted their Laserjet Public Relations Department and, once they halfway understood what a BBS is, they agreed to be open for my suggestions on how to support it. So far they have sent a slick PRESS packet of materials on the Laserjet II. I still have to write them with a better description of the conference and BBS - does anyone have any suggestions about how they could provide support to this conference? I will also suggest to them that they consider the possibility of starting their own BBS with Laserjet information. One 2 page spread in TIME magazine probably costs more than supporting a multi-node BBS for years! Date: 03-02-87 (23:00) Number: 176 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 175 From: GREG JACKSON Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I don't find it very exceptional that the people at HP don't know what a BBS is. I have been dealing with people in the publishing and software industry for several months now in trying to promote a BBS and most of them really don't understand what's what. In trying to create a bulletin board for a computer magazine I had to explain at some length what a bulletin board is, what shareware means, and how it all works. This explaination had to be done for the magazine editor as well as a number of others at the magazine. People who are heavily into the BBS world forget what a tiny corner of reality we each live in. Date: 03-03-87 (07:15) Number: 177 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 174 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: APPLE LASERWRITER AND IBM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I don't have an Apple Laserwriter but there are instructions in the MS Word manual: Set the switch on the side of the printer to 9600 baud To connect to the PC, use a serial printer cable---a standard RS232 Cable will NOT work (use a cable similar to that used for a Laserjet) Issue mode command: MODE COM1:9600,n,8,1,p If your software does not support serial communications, issue: MODE LPT1:=COM1: to redirect standard output to serial port. ----Dan---- Date: 03-03-87 (07:17) Number: 178 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 175 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes, I have an idea. Just have a bunch of people call them, asking for it. Maybe they can send diskettes of LJ-specific software. uh? ----Dan---- Date: 03-03-87 (10:20) Number: 179 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 168 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE First impressions: Very favorable! The big screen shows a full page in a size you can read, the options are very complete, and the darn thing is FAST... all the things on my wish list to make the damn MAC work "right". This weeks Info World had a review on Ventura, and I generally concur. In any case, I was convinced enough to order a copy... should be in hand next week. As an aside, in discussions with Quad today, they say that Ventura is working very nicely under their HP emulation, and that the latest emulation software is available for downloading from their bulletin board (see another message). As a small plug, yes, I am a dealer for both Wyse and QuadRam... but even if I weren't, I am still very much impressed with Venture/Wyse combo. For the record, the mouse I used was Logitech. -Kenn- Date: 03-03-87 (10:24) Number: 180 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 170 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE My experience with Pagemaker has been on the MAC, Ventura on an AT clone. I very much dislike Pagemaker, but that may be the MAC's fault. I haven't tried it on a PC yet. And yes, Ventura runs alone, but under GEM -- see this weeks INFO WORLD. -Kenn- Date: 03-03-87 (10:28) Number: 181 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 176 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE As a shareware author who understandably believes that QFILER is as good or better than many "commercial" programs of it's ilk, I see red every time there is yet another major review of software -- with all the really good shareware stuff omitted, except Wallace and Button. You would think at least some of the contributing editors would know what's happening in the "real" world. -Kenn- Date: 03-03-87 (10:31) Number: 182 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: (N/A) Subj: QUAD BBS! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Quadram now has a bulletin board where the latest drivers are available for download, including wordperfect and latest HP emulation. 404-564-5803, 24 hours, 1200 baud (ugh!) -Kenn- (for the QuadLaser, of course) Date: 03-03-87 (10:37) Number: 183 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: (N/A) Subj: QUADLASER POSTSCRIPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Latest info direct from Quad: The add-in controller upgrade for existing QuadLasers is scheduled for May, "with delivery expected to slip to June or July". Upgrade cost is around $1295 list. With it, you would have both the HP emulation now included, and Postscript to boot. New ROMS are now being shipped to allow access to the new 72 font "typeset" quality fonts that are included with the newest 2 meg units. Price for toner just went up to $99 list (2 cartidges). -Kenn- Date: 03-03-87 (11:25) Number: 184 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 175 From: JOHN SOPSICK Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE In my opinion, all HP would have to do to support the conference would be to send disks with any valuable utilities they might care to provide, and any technical data/release notes they have in the form of TXT files. Perhaps we could also arrange to forward any technical questions that arise on this conference that can't be answered by anyone here. Their responses could be entered as messages or placed on the board as files. Date: 03-03-87 (21:29) Number: 186 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: BOB SCHNECK Read: (N/A) Subj: LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have a great deal on laser printer cartridge! Example: The Hewlett Packard EP Toner Cartridge for as low as $90.00 super deal on many other computer supplies! Call voice any time (801) 375-8934 ATFI Distributing. and ask for Bob. Date: 03-04-87 (07:41) Number: 189 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: (N/A) Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Just got the HP92286Z Microsoft 1 (tm) HPLJ cartridge. --typeface--------pointsize----strokeweight/style Helvetica 8 medium " " 10 medium bold italic " " 12 medium bold italic " " 14 bold TmsRmn 8 medium " " 10 medium bold italic " " 12 medium bold italic " " 14 bold All above portrait Lineprinter 8.5 medium (16.66 pitch) Above landscape only . Microsoft Word has driver for this font cartridge. Output is absolutely fantastic. . ----Dan---- Date: 03-04-87 (19:31) Number: 191 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 189 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That sounds like a really impressive cartridge - I had not heard about the availability of that one. How did they manage to fit so many fonts in one cartridge (sounds like 17)? We have cartridges F, G, D, N, and L, of which F and G get the most use. We also have soft font sets that include Times Roman, HELV, Prestige Elite, Line Printer, and Line Draw in many sizes and orientations. While we use the cartridges much more than the soft fonts, I think the soft fonts (and built-in fonts) will ultimately be the most important in maximizing the potential of laser printers. Date: 03-04-87 (19:42) Number: 193 To: JOHN SOPSICK Refer#: 184 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Good suggestions - thanks - I'll forward them to HP. My guess is that HP is too big and independent to bother with sending our BBS anything they don't have readily available for public relations distribution already but you never know until you ask. Date: 03-04-87 (19:47) Number: 194 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 178 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The last time I asked their Laserjet Hotline people for LJ utilities or public domain software they had none available and they had very little for sale themselves. But I'll ask again. Date: 03-05-87 (11:44) Number: 197 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 191 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Have you ever tried Laserfonts by Softcraft? Very impressive package especially if you use MS Word. ----Dan---- Date: 03-05-87 (11:46) Number: 198 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 192 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Will do. ----Dan---- Date: 03-05-87 (11:48) Number: 199 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 194 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE They once sent me some coding samples for landscape mode. Since there are so many others supporting that printer, why should they bother? It's called the Big Blue Syndrome. ----Dan---- Date: 03-06-87 (01:44) Number: 200 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 197 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes we have Laserfonts but not MS Word. I wonder if anyone on this conference uses any other font packages other than those from HP or SoftCraft? There are other font vendors. Supposed to be some very good professional fonts from Bitstream (?) but I'm not sure who markets them. Date: 03-06-87 (01:49) Number: 201 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: NONE From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I just uploaded HPWORD.ARC but I can't judge its usefulness since we don't use WORD. What do you think of it? Date: 03-06-87 (15:08) Number: 202 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 200 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes, I heard that name before, but I haven't seen them in the magazines. I think they deal primarily with other software vendors that want to incorporate fonts in their products such as desk top publishers etc... The samples are in the mail, by the way. ----Dan---- Date: 03-06-87 (15:12) Number: 203 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 201 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have conversed quite a bit with Guy Gallo who created that print driver. What it does is combine the two most popular HP cartridges into a single driver, as well as provide a facility to print envelopes on a HPLJ if you use MS Word. You tell Word that forms are to be fed manually from bin 3 or something and it will cause automatic switch to landscape mode and manual feed thru the feed slot.....it does work, but the LJ is extremely sensitive to the paper thickness and texture, and some envelopes do nothing but cause jams. That file is of no use to you unless you are a Word user. ----Dan---- Date: 03-06-87 (19:05) Number: 204 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 203 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes I figured the file was only useful to Word users but I upload all files to this conference that I find on other boards that relate to the purpose of the conference - files for any laser printers or any word processors with laser drivers/utilities. That way the conference will hopefully have something for everyone, not just Laserjet users. Date: 03-06-87 (19:07) Number: 205 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 203 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I didn't realize the Laserjet was sensitive to paper thickness (altho I can understand it having a problem with envelopes). We don't use odd paper very often but on occasion I have fed 60-70 lb card stock, transparencies, and even envelopes without problems. Date: 03-06-87 (19:11) Number: 206 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 203 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE What board did you find Guy Gallo on? I'd like to converse with him sometime myself. His latest versions of his Laserjet utility have gotten quite good (the version 4.4 that we have on this board is more recent than most BBS's have but is still several months old - do you know if there is a more recent version?) Date: 03-07-87 (08:28) Number: 207 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 205 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Letter sized envelopes have this nasty habit of shifting sideways in the LJ's paper path. ----Dan---- Date: 03-07-87 (08:29) Number: 208 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 206 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have talked to him on Rockland, but the board we've used the most for msg exchanges is the Doctor's Office at 212-6628597. ----Dan---- Date: 03-07-87 (11:26) Number: 209 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOHN LEDERER Read: (N/A) Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We have been running about 16 HP laserjets in a law office. The machines get pretty heavy use. The following are a few observations: 1. Thre just isn't any real practical solution we have found to envelopes. Despite heavy use of macros it still takes the secretary as long to do the envelope as to do a short letter. Add on feeders are big bucks. Has any one come up with a practical solution? 2. We have tried having our used cartridges reloaded. Price is about $40 from a n outfit in Massachusetts. We stopped doing it because of quality problems-- about 1/3 of the cardtyridges streaked. Though the company would replace them, the hassle was too much. We pay about $72 a cartridge for new HP ones. 3. Our older machines have been having problems. As the warranty expires the heat roller that does the final finishing gets marks under the little plastic "teeth" that ride on it, eventually wears through the surface skin and the roller comes apart. HP has dodged and ducked-- claims that our paper had too much cotton (25%), and has not contributed to repair (about $100-150). The new rollers, and the rollers on our later machines are of different material. The problem is apparently widespread-- all kinds of delays and shortages on getting the rollers. 4. We have found the machines very sensitive to paper. Each time we change our letterhead we go through gyrations checking out different engraving, paper weight, etc. In winter we get speckling on paper from low humidity. 5. Despite the problems, the machines are pretty good. We have a couple coming up on 200, 000 pages and still whooshing along. We regularly clean the plastic teeth now along with other recommended cleaning. Date: 03-07-87 (11:31) Number: 210 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOHN LEDERER Read: (N/A) Subj: OASYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We are using an OASYS laserjet to run about 10,000 pages a month. Fifteen pages per minute. We feel a bit like a test site, but when the machine is running it is a very nice machine. Most impressive ( and importatnt in this kind of application) it is virtually jam free. We tried distributed printing to 3 HP laserjets, but the jams just killed us. Is there anybody out there using an under $10,000 machine for heavy duty applications? The Oasys was the best we could come up with (about $8000). I believe ours is the only one in Madison. Be glad to let anyone see it. It has the EXPRESS language, HP emulation, and 2 250 page trays that it feeds from sequentially. Date: 03-07-87 (16:39) Number: 211 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 208 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Thanks for the info Dan. In return, I'll ask Eric to lay off you for awhile! Date: 03-07-87 (16:51) Number: 212 To: JOHN LEDERER Refer#: 209 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Thanks for a very informative message. 16 Laserjets in one office! Who ever said lawyers were wordy, huh! I've not heard of the problems you mentioned. We have 3 Laserjets used by 45 people, the oldest of which is over 3 years old, and have experienced no problems. We mostly use high quality copier paper and only occassionally use bond letterhead stock. With the heavy use you're making of your Laserjets tho, $100 for rollers after extensive use doesn't seem too unreasonable, especially if the new rollers last longer than the originals. Date: 03-07-87 (16:54) Number: 213 To: JOHN LEDERER Refer#: 209 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE To all Laserjet users. How many of you regularly clean your printers according to instructions. I know we don't, partly because the cleaning instructions are not that easy to understand. Date: 03-07-87 (16:58) Number: 214 To: JOHN LEDERER Refer#: 210 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: OASYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Again I wonder why your experience with Laserets is so different from ours. We almost never get a paer jam with Laserjets even tho we never bother to fan paper when loading input trays. Every copier we've ever used has had worse paper jamming problems than Laserjets. Date: 03-08-87 (01:56) Number: 215 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 199 From: BRIAN MOURA Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE There is a HP-oriented BBS in Sunnyvale,CA sponsored by Interex. Call 408-746-0834 if interested. (They have a few LJ+ utilities and soft fonts available in the file section). Date: 03-09-87 (21:30) Number: 216 To: JOHN LEDERER Refer#: 209 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE We have fewer LJs than you do (8-10) and have had no real problems, but then we probably use them less also. Envelopes cause feed problems quite consistently. As far as being able to print them on the , we have had success with Guy Gallo's HPWORD.ARC print driver for Microsoft Word (which is useless with any other wp program). One of these days I will write a LJ envelope/mailing label program, but don't hold your breath. ----Dan---- Date: 03-09-87 (21:31) Number: 217 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 211 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HPWORD.ARC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE He already has. ----Dan---- Date: 03-09-87 (21:32) Number: 218 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 213 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I don't think we ever have, but then we don't have problems. I think we give them a cursory look when replacing the toner cartridge. ----Dan---- Date: 03-09-87 (21:33) Number: 219 To: BRIAN MOURA Refer#: 215 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Hey, thanks Brian. Good number to know. Appreciate the info. Did you write that down Marty? ----Dan---- Date: 03-09-87 (21:56) Number: 220 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 170 From: RICK BARNETT Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The major limitation of PAGEMAKER is inherent in its name. It was designed by people grounded in the mechanical aspect of page composition. It is therefore necessary to hand tune each page individually. It is of limited usefulness,ie. speed to all but PC-AT class machines. Ventura on the other hand works more than adequately on a 4 MHZ machine , allows for boilerplating ala MSWORD and has nearly $500 worth of fonts HELVETICA and TIMES from 6-24 point portrait and landscape thrown in to boot. There also exists a set of conversion utilities to allow the user to incorporate additional HP Format softfontss. Hands down Ventura is the sensible choice. We sell them both and I can't get myself to recommend Pagemaker over VP for anything but the most simplistic applications. If anyone would like a further discussion call my store number (202) 223 9007 10AM to 6PM Eastern time Date: 03-09-87 (22:08) Number: 221 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 98 From: RICK BARNETT Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE As of March 2, there has NOT been any price reduction of existing LJ series save for a $500 reduction on LJ 500 +. Recently introduced LJ2 machine weighs in at a hefty 52 lbs, 2 expansion slots with internal connector for DDL page description language ($2495) which requires 2 MEG upgrade. One very interesting aspect of LJ 2000 is the drum cartridge (manufactured by KYOCERA, an up and coming manufacturer who markets their own proprietary engine) has a rated life expectancy of count 'em 500,000 PAGES. Date: 03-09-87 (23:19) Number: 225 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 219 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP BBS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes I wrote the number down and even dialed the board but their emphasis is more on HP microcomputers rather than on Laserjets. Date: 03-09-87 (23:21) Number: 226 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 220 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Rick - thanks for the informative messages. We'll be looking forward to your further participation in the message base. Date: 03-09-87 (23:25) Number: 227 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 220 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That's seems like a good recommendation since you sell them both. I haven't looked at either yet but from the reviews, I'm concerned about how difficult Ventura might be to use for the casual (occasional) user compared to Pagemaker. Can you comment on this? Also will the agreement that HP made with Pagemaker folks (& MS Windows) make that more useful for Laserjet owners? Date: 03-09-87 (23:28) Number: 228 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 221 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sounds like you sell Laserjets as well as DT publishers? We had some prior messages in this base about color cartridges not being available for Canon laser engines because of cost. Have you ever heard anything about availability or non-availability of color toner cartridges? Date: 03-10-87 (11:44) Number: 232 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 228 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Didn't I leave a message in this conference? There is an outfit somewhere that sells blue and brown. Blue costs an arm and a leg (ie, around $140) and brown is in the $100 neighborhood. Saw the ad in the back pages of PC a couple of weeks ago. ----Dan---- Date: 03-10-87 (20:23) Number: 234 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 232 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes you conveyed that in message 161. I had forgotten about the blue & brown cartridge availability because they don't seem like they would add that much to black (blue might depending on the shade tho). What I was really hoping for was red & yellow & green in various shades for technicolor pages! Date: 03-10-87 (20:29) Number: 235 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 202 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Dan - I received your samples from Cartridge Z. Thanks. They look great (altho part of the appearance is that classy paper you use - we just use copier paper most of the time). I may just order one of those cartridges. The $1,000,000 is in the mail to you. Let me know when it arrives. Date: 03-11-87 (02:20) Number: 236 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: KENN FLEE Read: (N/A) Subj: VENTURA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE OK guys... in a personal vendetta against postscipt/apple/mac's I now have Ventura running in an AT clone, driving both an Epson compatible and a Quadlaser running under HP+ emulation. (actually also running a Laserwriter under postscipt). Using EGA on one machine and a WYSE 700 on the other. So far, I like both... much better than Pagemaker on the MAC plus. I'm open to questions/suggestions, since I'm still just wading through all the features. -Kenn- Date: 03-12-87 (10:30) Number: 238 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 234 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE If you want multicolor, I think some of the current crop of dot-matrix and possibly thermal transfer devices may be the way to go. Affordable and effective multicolor quality laser printing is still a few years away, I'm afraid. ----Dan---- Date: 03-12-87 (10:33) Number: 239 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 235 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Same here, but the good bond paper really makes the laserjet shine and I didn't want to use the cheap stuff in thius case. ----Dan---- Date: 03-12-87 (11:26) Number: 240 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: CARTER LUSHER Read: (N/A) Subj: LASER COLOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Apparently a magazine called Personal Publishing has an article in the most recent issue on "Color for Lasers". Has anybody seen it? MACC's MIC has a copy and I will try and get down there to read it. ::cjl:: Date: 03-12-87 (22:00) Number: 241 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: 236 From: GREG JACKSON Read: YES Subj: VENTURA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Fighting the Postscript landslide is like trying to swim upstream. We just got a Apple laser because it is the best deal on a postscript printer around. We have a $45,000 microVAX with a $7,000 graphics package. The device drivers are either an Imagin ($8000 laser printer) or any postscript printer. I think the people at Digital Equip Corp are laughing all the way to the bankO. Date: 03-12-87 (23:18) Number: 242 To: GREG JACKSON Refer#: 241 From: KENN FLEE Read: NO Subj: VENTURA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE That is definitely NOT a home-type system! -Kenn- Date: 03-13-87 (03:05) Number: 244 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 238 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I'm not impressed with the color dot matrix printers I've seen. Thermal transfer and ink jet seems promising tho. Like the IBM Jet Printer for about $799 retail - good price, great colors and color saturation, but poor resolution (about 100X100). Does anyone have a good non-impact color printer they care to recommend. I hope to get one within the next year but don't know which to get. Date: 03-13-87 (03:06) Number: 245 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 239 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You shouldn't have told me. I thought you used that fancy stuff all the time. Date: 03-13-87 (05:19) Number: 246 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 1 From: CARL VOELZ Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have/use a HP 500+. I got it at the best possible price, from a friend who is an HP employee out in LaLa Land (formerly in Los Angeles). I love it and thought about developing some commercial products for it. I have a couple of things available for FinalWord & SoftCraft (LaserFont) & HP users (they automate the interfacing of any subset of LaserFonts to FinalWord II). I'll give them away ***free*** to anyone who might want them. Although the HPs are probably the most popular of the laser printers, even HP has only sold 300,000 (by HP's own admission) which means that it is still a very small market. Getting back to the point: HP employees can buy them at less than 50% of list! Take an HP employee to lunch, buy them cocktails, get next to them, etc. I have found HP employees to be easy... Date: 03-13-87 (05:30) Number: 247 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 48 From: CARL VOELZ Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes, you can get colored cartridges; order from any HP dealer. Date: 03-13-87 (05:33) Number: 248 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 59 From: CARL VOELZ Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE HP raised the price of the regular cartridge recently. Anyone know where I can buy them or an alternate brand at a discount? Date: 03-13-87 (14:08) Number: 249 To: CARL VOELZ Refer#: 246 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Seriously, are you going to upload the files you mentioned or are you suggesting that people should ask you for them? Sounds like you have some nice stuff! Thanks for the information and welcome to the conference. Date: 03-13-87 (14:11) Number: 250 To: CARL VOELZ Refer#: 247 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Carl - as we've established in prior messages, only blue and brown color cartridges are available, unless you have other info (in fact, HP told me they only sell brown themselves) Date: 03-13-87 (23:10) Number: 251 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: KEITH VANRYN Read: (N/A) Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I Just wanted all of you to know, that I am a new user, and have just purchased one of the new HP Laserjet II's. It is quite a bit "blacker" in it's print quality, and is similar to the RICOH engine, even though it is still a CANON engine. I'm impressed so far...and I don't impress easily. Thanks for all the info on the Ventura/Pagemaker war. You all helped to settle it for me....Ventura it will be. Question?? What have you all found to be the best utility program for the HP. Have any of you tried PRINTWORKS for the Laser? How much are the Softcraft Fonts, and how good is the resolution?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. By the way, does anybody have a good source (reasonable) for HP Laser font cartridges?? Thanks for your help. I can use some down here in sunny Florida. Date: 03-14-87 (00:09) Number: 252 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 251 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I haven't actually looked at either Pagemaker or Ventura myself either but have about come to the same conclusion from the debate that you have, i.e., Ventura is the way to go (but plan to invest some time learning it)...Peter Norton devoted column to Ventura in latest PC Week magazine (March 10) and he likes it. Date: 03-14-87 (00:12) Number: 253 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 251 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I heard a rumor that Laserjet II would not except existing Laserjet cartridges...I can't believe HP would be dumb enough to make Laserjet II incompatable but could you confirm whether old cartridges still work/fit in Laserjet II? Date: 03-14-87 (00:21) Number: 254 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 251 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE To try and answer some of your questions: 1) All of the public domain utility programs that I have been able to find on boards around the country are in directory 22 in this conference. That was one of the most important reasons for starting the conference (to have one place in the country to look for laserjet files, as well as messages). 2) LASJT44.ARC is Guy Gallo's latest version of the Laserjet resident utility and that is excellent. 3) For printing IBM ascii screen graphics characters without a special font cartridge, HPGRAPH is super! 4) If you have a cartridge with compressed print (16.66 char/inch), the program LJ2UP is a really neat way to print manuals and documentation. Date: 03-14-87 (07:33) Number: 255 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 253 From: KEITH VANRYN Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yes Marty I can. The new printer does indeed use the same cartridges and softfonts. The only difference that I can see is print quality. The other difference is it uses a different toner cartridge, which may have been what you meant.....yes, it does. Same price though. It also yields more prints than the old toner cartridge. Hope this is of some help. Thanks for your comments regarding Ventura. Date: 03-14-87 (13:55) Number: 256 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: NONE From: CARTER LUSHER Read: YES Subj: VENTURRA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Here is a test situation for Ventura. Several pages, each with approx 4 font changes and 3 or 4 small to medium graphics. What I would interested in is how long it takes to print. Thanks! ::cjl:: Date: 03-14-87 (17:24) Number: 257 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 249 From: CARL VOELZ Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Anyone that wants the stuff can have it for the cost of the disk, cardboard mailing box, and postage, $2. But it is only usefult to people using SoftCraft's LaserFonts, the FinalWord II word processor, and an HPHP LaserJet+, LaserJet 500+ or compatible. I'll have to talk to anyone who wants the stuff because I have not written any documentation. However, if you know how to select a subset of LaserFonts, the interconnecting of the downloaded fonts and Final Word II is automatically controlled by the execution of a batch file (except for a one-time printer definition the first time you use the programs.) You can subsequently switch between sets of fonts, say one for printing ad copy and another set for printing a technical manual. I can include the principal execution code, written in MS Pascal, but I cannot include the source for about thirty parsing subroutines because they are part of a commercial product I flog, and legal questions regarding copyrighted material vs trade secret material would raise their ugly head; I can, however, include the linkable object code for the parsing subroutines so, if you want to modify the provided source code, you can. -- Anybody's welcome to this stuff. I routinely print a 140 page tech manual with many fonts (bold, italic, different point sizes) on each page. (You can get too carried away with this stuff--the result can be too busy looking, cluttered, and downright garish!) The printer runs at it max speed of about 8 pages per minute. For further information, call afternoons; 244--3331. Date: 03-14-87 (17:36) Number: 258 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 250 From: CARL VOELZ Read: YES Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You are absolutely right!!! And I am sorry. I've been trying for two days to get on this board to correct the incorrect message I left. I only use black myself. However, at one time I was thinking of flogging the product mentioned in the previous message, HP offered to list me as an approved vendor, I got on their mailing list, and my mailbox has been stuffed ever since! Amongst the mailings was an announcement regarding color cartridges THAT I DID NOT READ CAREFULLY. The cartridges they referred to were for Ink Jet printers. I'll be more careful when leaving messages in the future; sorry. Punch out my slots... twist my ribbon cable... dirty my dip switches... Date: 03-14-87 (19:02) Number: 259 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 255 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sounds like I better start hussling up some $ for the new Laserjet! It sounds like a really nice printer. The 'Grayness" of the print on the old laserjet has been a criticism of it but sounds now like it might get the same black print as the Quad Laser. Date: 03-15-87 (22:48) Number: 260 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 228 From: RICK BARNETT Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Marty, currently available colors for CANON EP toners in brown (blah), red and blue from TLC subsidiary of QMS in Mobile Alabama. I don't have number here but can find on 800 directory assistance. Date: 03-15-87 (22:56) Number: 261 To: KENN FLEE Refer#: 236 From: RICK BARNETT Read: YES Subj: VENTURA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Ken, it is certainly doing my poor ole retail heart good to find another real person who refuses to be taken in by APPLE/ADOBE propagandizing. Who in their sensible mind wants a potential 8ppm laser wasting 20-30 minutes to print a page that will take (at the max) 6 minutes/page using HP driver on Ventura. Rick Date: 03-15-87 (23:00) Number: 262 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 234 From: RICK BARNETT Read: YES Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Marty, I ran across an interesting development at HANNOVER CeBIT Fair recently. A product of a colored foil paper manufacturer in England that allows you to sandwich your laser (or copier as toner on the page is required) between foil color and mechanism (sells for $1000) re-melts toner and applies color from overlay foil sheet onto toner covered areas. If you will call me business hrs at the store (202)223-9007, I may be convinced to send you or any other interested partties a sample. We saw the potential and now have exclusive distribution rights in Wash DC area. rick Date: 03-15-87 (23:35) Number: 263 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 260 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: NO Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE If you find the number where we can get colored toner cartridges (or just other than HP suppliers for black cartridges for Laserjet), please leave a public message here - I think a lot of Conf callers will be interested. Date: 03-15-87 (23:38) Number: 264 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 262 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: NO Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE $1000 sounds a little expensive just to add color capability to existing laserjet output. I couldn't tell from your message whether this means one color per sheet or multiple colors. And can you blend colors to increase the total number available? Date: 03-16-87 (00:21) Number: 265 To: CARTER LUSHER Refer#: 256 From: KENN FLEE Read: YES Subj: VENTURRA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I'll give it a try and let you know... -Kenn- Date: 03-16-87 (00:27) Number: 266 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 261 From: KENN FLEE Read: NO Subj: VENTURA Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Amen to that. I sometimes have to justify my "sitting, doing nothing" while the da*n LaserWriter is doing it's thing. I've learned to make all changes to a single page one after another, cause the second pass is ALWAYS faster than the first. But boy, if you have a bunch of fonts and sizes and some graphics thrown in for good measure, it really isn't uncommon for the LaserWriter/Mac combo to spend from 4 to 20 minutes or more printing out one dumb page. -Kenn- Date: 03-16-87 (11:22) Number: 268 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 251 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Look up Softcraft in the magazines, give them a call, and they will send you a complete set of hype on the Laserfonts that was actually printed with it. I have been highly impressed. Also, they are beta testing laserfonts in landscape mode and I'll be able to tell you more about in a week or so. ----Dan---- Date: 03-16-87 (11:27) Number: 269 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: COLOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I saw the Calcomp thermal transfer raster device working at Autofact in late 85 and was impressed. Don't know about resolution but it did a heck of a job on them charts.....Anyone know about that thing... ----Dan---- Date: 03-16-87 (21:41) Number: 270 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: NONE From: JOHN LEDERER Read: YES Subj: LJJAMS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I suspect that the major cause of our jamming problem is the bond letterhead with engraved lettering (we have used many many different types of engraving with varying success--generally the flatter the better, but many types seem to cause the sheets to adhere slightly and that seems to cause the jams. None of it has been heavily embosseúÖd or highly raøÄised ( I don*'t think it is true engraving ) Date: 03-16-87 (21:59) Number: 273 To: DAN MOORE Refer#: 268 From: KEITH VANRYN Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Hey Dan, Thanks for the info on Softcraft. I gave them a call and they sent me a bunch of literature on their softfonts. They have a new Soft- Font Editor (about $200) that lets you create your own fonts. I'll probably start by getting Laserfonts, and go from there. Thanks for the help, this new laser user really appreciates it!! Date: 03-16-87 (22:01) Number: 274 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 259 From: KEITH VANRYN Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Yep Marty, you better save those shekels. The print quality so far has been outstanding. The quality to me is comparable to the Ricoh engine. Try and get a look at one somewhere, you'll see the difference. Keith! Date: 03-17-87 (01:49) Number: 275 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 251 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Regarding the commercial software package Printworks for Laser We have had it for about a year but have never really used it. The file in Directory 22 called LASJT44.ARC is the latest shareware version of the Laserjet utility from Guy Gallo and, in my opinion, is much better than Printworks for Laser an does about the sme thing. Printworks can make the Laserjet emulate an Epson printer (or IBM graphics printer) but who needs that anymore! Another problem with Printworks is that running it puts its own graphics screen printer in CONFIG.SYS and then all of your graphics screen prints have to be done through Printworks. If you try to print graphics to the Laserjet with another commercial package, you just get garbage and try and figure out why! Printworks will also supposedly allow you to download soft fonts but you can also do that with PCLPAK from Hewlett Packard, Laserfonts from SoftCraft, or just with the DOS COPY /B instruction. Date: 03-17-87 (04:15) Number: 276 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: CARL VOELZ Read: (N/A) Subj: LASERRAM (??) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Some time back I remember reading about an add on memory board having a name something like LaserRam from a company with "Tall" in their name. I looked through a couple of recent publications for ad from Tall Grass and Tall Tree but did not see anything that looked like this board. What this board did was allow you to download LJ fonts AND output for the LJ to the board, rather than to the LJ itself. The board was connected through some sort of internal "field testing" cable connector, not the standard external cable connectors. The purpose of the device was not only to speed up the font downloading process (a couple of the font sets I routinely download contain 5 point sizes for each of two regular fonts, and each of these also has an italic and bold component, resulting in 30 font definitions or about 380K being downloaded--takes 8 minutes to start up the system.) This board also does a transfer, say of graphics stuff, at DMA memory to memory transfer speed, not the (I guess I remember) 9600 baud used for parallel transfer. The board had around a megabyte installed and its cost was around a kilobuck. -- Does anybody recall such a product or, better yet, have one or something similar? <<< >>> After rereading the above, I did not make it clear that the board installs in the PC and is connected to the LJ via an existing but nonstandard coupling/connector inside the LJ that is used for (was designed for) some other purpose. Thanks... Date: 03-17-87 (05:47) Number: 277 To: RICK BARNETT Refer#: 220 From: BOB FLORES Read: NO Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I have to agree with Rick. I've used both. While I like the PC version of PAGEMAKER much better than the MAC version, Ventura Publisher is the better product. I, however, am convinced that WINDOWS is the way of the future, and really wish VP would run under it. Date: 03-17-87 (06:16) Number: 278 To: CARL VOELZ Refer#: 276 From: STEPHEN PECKICONIS Read: NO Subj: LASERRAM (??) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE The board you are referring to is the JLaser. It is available as a daughterboard to Tall Tree's JRAM line of 2MB RAM cards, which can also do EMS. They have been available for a while now. Tall Tree advertises this item pretty selectively. If I remember right, you might fd some good pictures in magazines from last November. One mail order company, RAM Explosion, has been selling the JLaser in combo with the QMS KISS printer for around $2500-2600 for a few months. Date: 03-17-87 (06:23) Number: 279 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: STEPHEN PECKICONIS Read: (N/A) Subj: LARGE BIN, FAST LASER REC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I am looking for a recommendation on a Laser that has good paper handling capabilities. The price range is up to $5,000 and what I would like is something with with ability to handle at least 250 sheets input or more. Speed would also be nice, say 10 ppm if possible. I have seen that the QuadLaser will handle 250 sheets. Is there anything bigger/better that is still under $5,000 discounted. I have one client who has a CIE LIPS 10, 10ppm. What do people think of it? . Also, for doing some good slide work with Harvard Presentation Graphics, what would people recommend. Must do 300 dpi full-page. The new HP LJ II looks like a cheap choice here. How would you go about deciding whether to get 1MB, 2MB, 4MB, knowing you may have to punt the smaller upgrades if you need more memory later? What is the optimum price/perf selection for a medium-volum 300 dpi application like above when combined with heavy word-processing? Date: 03-17-87 (08:15) Number: 280 To: JOHN LEDERER Refer#: 270 From: DAN MOORE Read: NO Subj: LJJAMS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I am glad you brought that up.....we did switch from engraved to printed bond letterhead and never had an LJ jam with it. ----Dan---- Date: 03-17-87 (08:28) Number: 283 To: KEITH VANRYN Refer#: 273 From: DAN MOORE Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Sure glad I could help.....they are now testing the laserfonts in landscape mode...quality is excellent and price performance is hard to beat compared to others. If you use MS Word, then it is a fantastic combination. ----Dan---- Date: 03-17-87 (08:30) Number: 284 To: CARL VOELZ Refer#: 276 From: DAN MOORE Read: NO Subj: LASERRAM (??) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE JLASER from Tall Tree Systems. The name is all I ow and I appreciate the good stuff you had to say....sounds worth investigating. ----Dan---- Date: 03-17-87 (11:18) Number: 285 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MAURICE THALER Read: (N/A) Subj: VENTURA W/ WINDOWS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I read in infoworld yesterday that Ventura is planning to release a version of their product that will run under Windows. Sounds like a mixed blessing to me. It will be compatable and slower probably. Date: 03-17-87 (11:22) Number: 286 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MAURICE THALER Read: (N/A) Subj: VENTURA KERNING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I am researching Ventura for some advertising friends of mine who want to use it as a front end to send type to either a CompuGraphics or Linotype typesetting machine. The question is : according to the arcticle I read in InfoWorld last week, version 1.1 of Ventura supports kerning, does it work with specific fonts ? As I understand it, each font has different spacing for EACH letter, and the kerning if done properly, will adjust for that specific font. So it would look differnet if you chose TimeRoman12 versus Gothic12 . Am I close ? What is the story on this? Date: 03-17-87 (11:28) Number: 287 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MAURICE THALER Read: (N/A) Subj: PAGE ORIENTED MONITORS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE It seems like this is really a Desktop conference even though it is LASER by name, so...... Does anybody out there have experience with the different PAGE oriented monitors available? I went to the Electronic Publishing conference in Chicago a couple weeks back and saw the Genius monitor as well as a couple other ones and could not at a brief glance determine which was the HOT one to get. Is one more cost effective ? Does anybody have one I could look at in town here ? I am sure that we have some people that are ready to set me straight on these simple questions I have. Date: 03-17-87 (14:12) Number: 288 To: MARTY SHANNON Refer#: 1 From: RICK SEAVEY Read: YES Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I currently have access to 2 HP LaserJets and 1 HP LaserJet+. I'd be very interested in any action that will help me get more out of these guys. -Rick Seavey Date: 03-17-87 (14:50) Number: 289 To: RICK SEAVEY Refer#: 288 From: MARTY SHANNON Read: NO Subj: HP LASERJETS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE In general you can get a lot more action out of the Laserjet+ than from the basic Laserjet, which prints text very well but that's about it. What kind of "action" did you have in mind for your Laserjets?