SF-LOVERS Digest Thursday, 4 Feb 1993 Volume 18 : Issue 68 Today's Topics: Books - Barker & Clarke (10 msgs) & Delany (2 msgs) & Duncan (3 msgs) & Ellison & Haldeman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Feb 93 13:31:06 GMT From: hobie@zooid.guild.org (Hobie Orris) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Man of Gold, by Barker I quite like the Barker books, though more for the universe they are set in than for Barker's writing style, or the action itself. But then I played Tekumel back in the 70's and thought it was really cool then. I will definitely buy a third book when it comes out. I have "The Tekumel Sourcebook", published by Gamescience, which has large, full-colour maps of the Tekumel world (maps are sadly lacking from the novels) as well as the history, religion and culture of the different races of Tekumel. It's a fascinating creation. I normally despise fantasy fiction because it seems so boringly medieval Europe; sort of re-hashed Arthurian legend. Tekumel is a mixture of the cultures and religions of India and the ancient Aztecs (Barker is a professor of Meso-American history) which gives it enough of an exotic feel to hold my interest. Hobie Orris ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 02:03:41 GMT From: vs27@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Vadim Strizhevsky) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? I have just finished reading "The Garden of Rama" by Arthur C. Clarke (3rd book in Rama series) and judging by the ending I think there should be another sequel somewhere. Does any one have any information on whether it exists or is planned, and what it called? I'd appreciate any info about this. ------------------------------ From: lichter@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter) Date: 29 Jan 93 08:17:21 GMT Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? Related question: I found _Rendezvous with Rama_ to be extremely tedious and uninteresting. That given, would you recommend the later books in the series? Michael ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 11:42:26 GMT From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? lichter@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter) writes: >Related question: I found _Rendezvous with Rama_ to be extremely tedious >and uninteresting. That given, would you recommend the later books in the >series? Since you don't like _Rendezvous with Rama_, you probably belong in the group which likes the sequels. At least, that is the way it seems to split .... :-) Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup Inst. of Scientific Computation ETH, Zuerich Switzerland qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 07:18:14 GMT From: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? vs27@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Vadim Strizhevsky) writes: >I have just finished reading "The Garden of Rama" by Arthur C. Clarke >(3rd book in Rama series) and judging by the ending I think there should >be another sequel somewhere. Does any one have any information on whether >it exists or is planned, and what it called? It is called Rama Revealed. I'm not sure when it will be available, but I read that all three books were written and delivered to the publiser at the same time, so I expect it soon, if not now. Charles B. Owen Western Illinois University 1002 E. Murray Macomb, IL 61455 mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 17:12:19 GMT From: leifmk@lise.unit.no (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? lichter@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter) writes: > Related question: I found _Rendezvous with Rama_ to be extremely tedious > and uninteresting. That given, would you recommend the later books in > the series? You what??? You have committed blasphemy. Repent, sinner. No one puts down the original _Rendezvous with Rama_ and goes unpunished. No one. We know who you are, and we know where we can find you. (Only kidding there, but if you didn't like RwR, I'm afraid your mental processes, such as they are, must be so different from all previously known ones that you cannot be communicated with. Well, almost. The later books, on the other hand, I wouldn't really recommend either way. Except of course I have made the mistake of reading the two that have come out, and so find myself doomed to having to hunt down the last one when it appears.) ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 93 18:47:44 GMT From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes: > Since you don't like _Rendezvous with Rama_, you probably belong in the > group which likes the sequels. At least, that is the way it seems to > split .... :-) Amusing, but not necessarily so. Actually it seems to break down into "people who liked _Rendezvous with Rama_, but didn't like the sequels" (I fall into this category myself), and "people who liked _Rendezvous with Rama_ and the sequels". I think that someone who didn't enjoy the original Rama book wouldn't get much out of the sequels. Jim Kasprzak RPI Troy, NY, USA kasprj@rpi.edu kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 93 02:50:55 GMT From: sivo@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Louis Sivo) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? > Related question: I found _Rendezvous with Rama_ to be extremely tedious > and uninteresting. That given, would you recommend the later books in > the series? Well if you didn't like it I would say no. Stop where you are and buy another book. I did like it (I hate an unsolved mystery) so I continued. For a brief description of the other books and what you can expect (minor spoilers) read on: The second book is "Rama II" and Clarke wrote it with Gentry Lee. It's your basic, let's explore the next Rama ship that enters the solar system. This time though with a different cast of people. There was more "characterization" that a lot of people say is due to Gentry Lee's influence. I liked it, though to be fair, others here have said they didn't. If you didn't like "Rendevous With Rama" you'd probably hate this one. The third book "Gardens of Rama" again with Clarke and Lee has a group of explorers on a Rama ship (sorry won't tell you if it's the same one from book 2, or another one, have to minimize the spoilers) heading for an alien destination. I viewed this book as three major acts. Act 1, on the Raman ship. Act 2, arrive at destination. Act 3... well, read the book I really don't want to say and spoil anything. (My minor spoilers for Act 1 and 2 as I remember are implied by the blurb on the back of the book cover.) Anyway, I really like this third book a lot more. There was more going on. You found out more about the ship, something about the aliens, etc. There is supposed to be a forth book out sometime called "Rama Revealed" by the same authors where all the mysteries are solved. Well, I hope that helps. If anyone has a different opinion, let's hear from you. :-) Louis ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 93 22:10:50 GMT From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: New Clarke novel Readers might be interested: A recent issue of "New Scientist" (16-Jan-93) has a letter from none other than Arthur C Clarke, in which he mentions a forthcoming novel, "The Hammer of God". Apparently it's about the attempts to intercept an asteroid that's about to hit the Earth. Ross Smith Wanganui, NZ alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 93 00:11:47 GMT From: jseaver@bigwpi.wpi.edu (Jason John Seaver) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: New Clarke novel alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) writes: >A recent issue of "New Scientist" (16-Jan-93) has a letter from none other >than Arthur C Clarke, in which he mentions a forthcoming novel, "The >Hammer of God". Apparently it's about the attempts to intercept an >asteroid that's about to hit the Earth. Isn't that the name and subject of the short story he wrote for the TIME Special Edition on "The Year 2000" or something or other? ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 93 17:54:47 GMT From: joshi@cs.uiuc.edu (Anil Joshi) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Is there a sequel to "The Garden of Rama" ? kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) writes: >Amusing, but not necessarily so. Actually it seems to break down into >"people who liked _Rendezvous with Rama_, but didn't like the sequels" (I >fall into this category myself), and "people who liked _Rendezvous with >Rama_ and the sequels". I think that someone who didn't enjoy the original >Rama book wouldn't get much out of the sequels. Things are getting complicated. Am I the only one who liked "RWR" and "RII" and hated "GOR"? Anil ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 93 10:41:43 GMT From: pgyger@ul9000.unil.ch Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Samuel R. Delany's Neveryon I am currently reading Delany's _Tales of Neveryon_ the first book in the _Return to Neveryon_ series. In an appendix to the book, there is a fictional summary from S.L. Kermit about a text fragment (the culhar fragment or the Missologhi codex) written in linear B (proto greek language) and in another language (decoded by K. Leslie Steiner). This text is supposed to have inspired Delany for his Neveryon books... Does anyone know if there is something true in that or if all the characters and all the story are pure fantasy? Does the culhar fragment exist? Who wrote the appendix to this books and the others? Any information welcome! Patrick J. Gyger University of Lausanne History dpt. pgyger@ulys.unil.ch ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 93 17:29:35 GMT From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Samuel R. Delany's Neveryon pgyger@ulys.unil.ch writes: >I am currently reading Delany's _Tales of Neveryon_ the first book in the >_Return to Neveryon_ series. In an appendix to the book, there is a >fictional summary from S.L. Kermit about a text fragment (the culhar >fragment or the Missologhi codex) written in linear B (proto greek >language) and in another language (decoded by K. Leslie Steiner). This >text is supposed to have inspired Delany for his Neveryon books... Does >anyone know if there is something true in that or if all the characters >and all the story are pure fantasy? Does the culhar fragment exist? Who >wrote the appendix to this books and the others? Any information welcome! It's pure fabrication. "K. Leslie Steiner" is a pseudonym that Delany has occasionally used when he writes about his own work. An interesting volume containing some of these writings is _Straits of Messina_; unfortunately, it's kind of hard to find. Erich Schneider erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 93 01:02:56 GMT From: jean@noao.edu (Jean Goodrich) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Dave Duncan _The Cutting Edge_ is set 10-15 years later (sorry, I don't recall exactly). Rap and Inos have kids, Shandy is making a military hero of himself, the wardens are quarreling as usual, and Rap has supposedly made THE mistake of the millenium... I won't say its as good as the first trilogy, because that one was *so* good and I enjoyed it for its novelty. But it is good, and worth the price of hardback. Jean ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 93 19:42:00 GMT From: altam@ocf.berkeley.edu (Allen Tam) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Dave Duncan tomw@asd.sgi.com writes: >EaC is the fourth book in the first series. TEC is the first book in the >second series. You should be able to find Eac. It's been out for a >while. So does _The_Cutting_Edge continue from where _Emperor_and_Clown left off? Or is it the start of a brand new series with new characters? I'm curious, because I've yet to see it in bookstores yet. Allen Tam ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 93 17:02:35 GMT From: goodin@fraser.sfu.ca (Charles Frederick Goodin) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Dave Duncan altam@ocf.berkeley.edu (Allen Tam) writes: >So does _The_Cutting_Edge continue from where _Emperor_and_Clown left The Cutting Edge continues 10+ years from where Emperor and Clown left off, with some new characters, but also with Rap and Inos (and their kids)! I got it from the local library a while ago, so I don't remember all of the details, but it's definitely up to the previous four books in quality. Love the magic system, love the "races". Can't wait for the second one! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 93 19:32:53 GMT From: sbrock@csn.org (Steve Brock) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison Title: HARLAN ELLISON'S WATCHING Author: Harlan Ellison Publisher: Underwood-Miller Publishing, 708 Westover Dr., Lancaster, PA Publisher: Index, two appendices. Pages: 514 pp. Comments: $17.95 paper. Order Number:0-88733-147-5 REVIEW Fiona Webster has given a nice description of the cover of this book, and Stewart Tame has correctly stated that this is a trade paperback edition of the hardcover published in 1989. With all the help, this review should be a snap. I have two questions, however, for Fiona: 1. What's with the arrow that goes under the title, points toward the spine, with the one on the spine pointing toward the back cover? Is it to get the reader to turn the book over to see the abstract "chessboard on the lake?" 2. And what is little Harlan doing on the cover? He looks like his head and arm are floating in the air. What is the symbolism of this? Does "fingers down" signify a bad review a la Siskel and Ebert's "thumbs down?" Little Harlan has watched, as well as written for, many television shows and movies, and this book attempts to put his reviews into some kind of order with chapters grouped into "Installments." Beginning with a short essay on the influence of movies on his childhood (and sneaking out of his grandmother's house at night to see "Mr. Bug Goes To Town" on his birthday so he could get in free, and getting caught - jerked out of his seat where he cringed, by a flashlight-wielding usher), the responsibilities of being a critic (responsibilities? what responsibilities), and his first reviews for "Cinema" magazine, he exhibits other reviews written for the publication. Most memorable of his opinions in this section are in his reviews of "Beau Geste" ("a microcephalically written screenplay of the sheerest ineptitude"), Godard's "Le Carabiniers" ("I suggest those who find this deprecating review of M. Godard's pud-pulling unacceptable, cross check with less-Philistinic reviewers and then go or not go accordingly"), and "2001: A Space Odyssey" (he calls it "Kubrick's Folly" and tells viewers to watch it "stoned on acid"). We then enter Ellison's "Screening Room" (four reviews of lesser movies excerpted from "The Staff"), and then we get to the meat of the book: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" First Series (1977-78) and Second Series (1984-). These reviews show Ellison reaching maturity, but never growing up. Most of these reviews ran in "The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction." In Harlan's own words, he outlines his perspective on reviewing movies. "I try to look not only at the primary entertainment, storytelling qualities of films," he says, "but attempt to consider them as reflections of cultural phenomena." This extends to occasionally equating them with bodily functions, such as "Star Wars" (panning the movie makes him "run the risk of being disemboweled by terminal acne cases"), "Cujo" ("a gawdawful lump of indigestible grue"), or "Robocop" ("this is a template for everything rabid and drooling in our culture"). Occasionally this opens him up to slander suits, but I know of none that he has lost. Few ushers, lately, have tried to jerk him out of his seat. That (once) sweet little Ellison kid is one of the most caustically, sincerely original voices we have today, whether it's a movie review, a dangerous vision, or a pilot for a new television show. This book of reviews gets an unequivocal "fingers up." And don't let Fiona get you jealous that she has the hardback edition. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 93 03:00:31 GMT From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Ending of _Hemingway Hoax_ I just read Haldeman's _Hemingway Hoax_ (the novel version), and I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say about the ending. Here's my thoughts on the matter: *** SPOILERS *** In a lot of ways, I was very impressed by this book. In particular, the changes as John Baird travels from universe to universe (both in him and the other main characters) is quite impressive. I also like the way the "time police" aspect was used only enough to support the main story. I'm not familiar with Hemmingway's writing or style, so I can't really address the accuracy of that aspect; it was certainly presented in a way that doesn't leave non-initiates behind. What I didn't like was the fact that while the "time police" aspect supports the main story clearly, I can't see that any of the questions it raised were ever answered: -Why was John Baird immune to the kill-stick? -Was the "unraveling of reality" avoided? -What was the motivating force behind these events? Was it some deity (as John suggests) or something else? Given the assumptions underlying the events, happenstance and coincidence don't quite wash. -As I read it, at the end, Baird becomes and/or merges with Hemingway. How does this fit with the rest of the story? ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************