CompuServe Ventura for Windows Messages, Nov. 30 to December 8, 1993

Created on 1993-12-08

Date: 1993-11-30,00:06
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: marilynn 70274,3623
Subject: Single-File HERESY!

I think that the complaint is not that VPWin is not WYSIWYG, but rather
that the editing capabilities of VPWin are not the equivalent of a
full-featured WYSIWYG word processor such as W4W or WPWin.

 -jrh


Date: 1993-11-30,13:00
From: marilynn 70274,3623
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: Single-File HERESY!

Type and erase - what more do we need? <g>



Date: 1993-11-30,17:19
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: marilynn 70274,3623
Subject: Single-File HERESY!

Don't ask me--I wasn't complaining!<g>

 -jrh


Date: 1993-11-30,22:28
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: Single-File HERESY!

Jim,

 >> Don't ask me--I wasn't complaining!<g>

Since when?  <G>

Cleve


Date: 1993-12-01,21:39
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: Single-File HERESY!

On  this praticular issue, since about 4 years ago when I realized that
VP is not a word processor, is not designed to be a word processor and
doesn't need to be a word processor.

 -jrh

Date: 1993-11-29,18:42
From: James G 70400,2746
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: Ventura and WinWord 6

Hi....

I happen to have the new 4.2 version.  It needs a Word for Win 6.0
filter.  I like the new program.  It's faster.  You'll see.  I'm stoked
about Corel getting Ventura.  I heard the Ventura people made it hard
on the Corel folks, though.  The Corel people are trying to play
catch-up, especially with customer service.

                Jim


Date: 1993-11-29,20:09
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: James G 70400,2746
Subject: Ventura and WinWord 6

>>I heard the Ventura people made it hard on the Corel folks

How'd that happen? Do you suppose the "Ventura people" refused to take
Corel's money somehow?<g>

>>It's faster. You'll see.

Than what?

Karl

Date: 1993-12-04,22:15
From: James G 70400,2746
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: Ventura and WinWord 6

I heard the information from a reliable "connected" source.  I do like
the 4.2 version, too.

Date: 1993-11-29,19:59
From: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Re VLB bus:

Forget it.  A good EISA accelerated video card is just as fast as VLB
and same goes for a good EISA disk controller. So EISA systems don't
need VLB.



Date: 1993-11-29,21:49
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Yeah, but there are a lot more VLB video cards available than EISA
cards, no?  What I've mostly seen of actual EISA cards is disk
controllers, for which EISA is well-suited; EISA can certainly keep up
with any hard drive that's likely to come along for the next fifteen
minutes.



Date: 1993-11-30,16:50
From: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Hi David:

Re EISA video cards.  Your right, they're not all that common.  But
we've used ATI and now APPIAN EISA with good success.

Date: 1993-11-29,21:57
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Joe,

 >> Forget it.  A good EISA accelerated video card is just as fast as
VLB
 >> and same goes for a good EISA disk controller. So EISA systems
don't need
 >> VLB.

I've had quite a few conversations with David Reed of SuperMac.  I was
using, on loan and for testing, one of their Thunder/24 cards for about
6 months.  According to Dave, the EISA is faster than the ISA but the
VLB beats them all by a good margin.  This may vary from card to card
but for my money (had I any), the SuperMac Thunder is a super card and
my personal preference.

Cleve


Date: 1993-11-30,17:24
From: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Hi Cleve:

I'll check into the SuperMac, it's not one I'm familiar with at all and
we're always on the lookout for fast, reliable video systems.

Thanks!




Date: 1993-11-30,22:28
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Joe,

 >> I'll check into the SuperMac, it's not one I'm familiar with at all
 >> and we're always on the lookout for fast, reliable video systems.

You should.  I found it fast, stable, reliable, and with excellent tech
support through Dave Reed.  It really exceeded my expectations for an
ISA board, faster than this ISA ATI I'm using and no slowdown when
going to 1152x910 at 24-bit resolution.  I can't imagine how it would
fly in its EISA, VLB, or PCI versions.  I'd like to find out, though.

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-03,15:41
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Joe Engel - 73760,3126
Subject: W4WGroups error?

Joe,

I just installed the Windows for Workgroups 3.11 Add-On over an XCOPY
of my current Windows 3.1 setup.

Since my SCSI host adapter (Ultra 14F) does not appear to be supported
by protect mode drivers, 16-bit mode I/O modules were set up--thus on
this standalone I'm not seeing any performance advantage or other
advantage in using it over regular Windows 3.1.

Date: 1993-12-01,21:10
From: Hilary 100240,1624
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: WANTED! New VP Feats

>>Hang in there!<<

Thanks, Charles (Chas?, Charlie?) I will! But you experts are a bit
scary -- some of your esoteric discussions mean nothing at all to me!

Cheers,
Hilary


Date: 1993-12-08,00:47
From: Hilary 100240,1624
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: WANTED! New VP Feats

Anyone who talks about font metrics and width tables and understands
what the hell they are is a scary expert in my book. The nice thing
about the VP experts on the Forum is how willing they are to answer
dumb questions from the rest of us.

Cheers,
Hilary


Date: 1993-12-08,07:15
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Hilary 100240,1624
Subject: WANTED! New VP Feats

Hey, I can talk about "font metrics" and "width tables" with the best
of 'em! I must be an expert! (Just don't ask me to define them <g>.)

Date: 1993-11-30,00:06
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Nick Swift 76450,1662
Subject: SHARE.EXE doesn't

 >> You must have some security or share setting setup differently than
me...

If so, it is because of something WFWG did because I haven't changed
anything that I am aware of.

I understand what you are saying about having to modify your methods to
accommodate the network. It is one of the reasons I commonly refer to
them as "notworks".<G>

 -jrh


Date: 1993-11-30,15:22
From: Nick Swift 76450,1662
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: SHARE.EXE doesn't

"Notworks" ROFL!

Nick

Date: 1993-12-01,15:47
From: David 76300,3204
To: [F] Mike 75430,333
Subject: Where Do We Stand?

Mike,

     Has this been answered?  What exactly is going on?

=d=

 > #: 120402 S4/VP for Windows
 >     21-Nov-93  23:59:34
 > Sb: Where Do We Stand?
 > Fm: David Makulec 70524,716
 > To: Derek Langdon (Sysop) 76702,1456
 >
 > Derek (and, by extension, Harris Majeed)--
 >
 > After considerable heated controversy and volumes of feedback from
users,
 > it would seem that Corel might find it appropriate to make some
"official"
 > statement on its current stance regarding the single-file vs.
 > multiple-file debate.  The alarms rang, after all, in response to a
public
 > statement from a Corel representative--it seems only logical to have
 > another statement in response to the input Corel's received since
then.
 >
 > I have a specific motive--I must, within the next few days, write up
a
 > short article regarding these developments for The Venturian, the
monthly
 > newsletter of the New York Ventura Publisher Users Group (NYVPUG).
I feel
 > that article would be more complete, and its readers better served,
if
 > Corel's official stance at this point were included.
 >
 > But I think, as well, that the forum as a whole would appreciate
some
 > straightforward feedback from Corel.  We all appreciate the efforts
Steve
 > Adams and Bill Cullen have made to solicit and funnel input on this
issue
 > and others over the past days.  But a *response* on this particular
issue
 > is in order.
 >
 > Corel need not make a "final" statement on the issue--after all, the
plans
 > for 5.0 are surely still in flux.  But an indication of where we
stand at
 > this point, and perhaps what *was* under consideration vs. what's
*now*
 > under consideration, seems the very least that Corel could offer.
 >
 > I have spoken in the last few days to several NYVPUG members and
clients
 > of mine who've had direct conversations with Harris Majeed and other
Corel
 > representatives.  Reports vary with the reporter, but the gist seems
to be
 > that a) Harris Majeed was quite receptive to this direct contact and
b)
 > there is some sense that the "single-file" proposal is now being
 > considered as an option or an alternative rather than a replacement,
with
 > the current multi-file approach remaining available as well.
 >
 > Although I've, regrettably, been unable to speak to Mr. Majeed in
person
 > myself, I extend my thanks for the time he and others at Corel have
taken
 > to listen to the concerns of those who took the time to call, fax,
E-Mail,
 > and message Corel on this important matter.
 >
 > In return, I hope Corel will see fit to post some statement here on
how
 > matters stand at this point.  If that is not possible, I'd
appreciate an
 > E-Mail concerning how I might best describe Corel's official stance
for my
 > article to the NYVPUG membership.
 >
 > Thanks in advance.
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > --Dave Makulec





Date: 1993-12-05,11:26
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: David 76300,3204
Subject: Where Do We Stand?

David--

>> Has this been answered? <<

No, not Officially.

>> What exactly is going on? <<

It has been made plain to me, through indirect channels, that Corel's
higher-ups have no intention of answering this question definitively in
public, on this forum or elsewhere.

The OPINION of Corel insiders at this point, however, is that the
single-file format will be offered as some kind of *alternative*, with
the current working method still available in all its glory.  But this
is NOT an official answer, and the details are NOT forthcoming.  (BTW,
this was also the impression given to several NYVPUG members who spoke
directly to Harris Majeed.)

Furthermore, there has still been no input to this discussion (in
public, anyway) regarding the specific "hows and whys" of Corel's
original thinking, or how it may (or may not) have been modified by the
avalanche of input they got when this "thinking" (inadvertently? <g>)
became public.

<sigh>

Personally, I can live with an *optional* single-file format, if it
doesn't interfere with the current method AND if implementing it does
not distract Corel from doing *worthwhile* work on

a) fixing and improving current features,

b) adding *worthwhile* new ones, and

c) finishing the OOP rewrite and testing it adequately.


Regards,

--Dave Makulec

Date: 1993-11-30,21:31
From: David Wolk 70372,311
To: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
Subject: VP+VDBP Manual folly!

Well said!

Date: 1993-11-30,15:32
From: Chris Frizelle 70630,717
To: Ed Brown 100042,2271
Subject: Hyphenation

Thanks Ed.  Can I widen this a little for all you folks out there who
may be reading this thread!?  It now looks like the best solution is to
pre-hyphenate the text files and use a soft hyphenation filter for Win
VP which I've retrieved from the library here.  The obvious problem is
that I need hyphenation dictionaries in several languages as disk files
(format not important) which I can then use to hyphenate the text
files.  So, anyone know where I can get hold of said dictionaries?  I
remember talking to a company at an exhibition in England a few years
ago who specialised in just this field, but I can't find any
information on them.  Any leads?


Date: 1993-11-30,16:31
From: Ed Brown 100042,2271
To: Chris Frizelle 70630,717
Subject: Hyphenation

Chris,

You want to talk to Computer Hyphenation (Bradford I think).

Yep! Dr D Fawthrop (0274) 733317 is the number I have.

Rgds Ed


Date: 1993-12-06,16:54
From: Chris Frizelle 70630,717
To: Ed Brown 100042,2271
Subject: Hyphenation

Thanks for your help, Ed.  Someone in the DTP forum had the identical
suggestion.  I'll be following this up.  If I come up with a solution
that can be applied generically then I'll post a message.  This is
certainly an area that needs more thought and flexibility.

Date: 1993-11-29,20:09
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: .2 is STIL buggy

I don't have any "tech support reps" so I'd be curious to know who you
are refering to. Version 4.2 is substantially the same as 4.1.1
although the vendor has changed. Maybe if VSI had fixed the bugs it
would not have been forced to sell off it's assets - at this point
we're free to speculate all we want as there's no one here from VSI to
defend it's actions.

Karl


Date: 1993-11-30,19:17
From: James A. Rome 70673,3725
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: 4.2 is STIL buggy

I called up the support number in the manual 313-357-5444 and they are
some company hired by Corel to give tech support. The guy I spoke with
said he had a database of the bugs that were supposed to have been
fixed in 4.2, and that the 1/2 point size problem was one of them.
It would be nice to have the list posted here...

Have you moved to Corel?

Jim


Date: 1993-11-30,21:59
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: 4.2 is STIL buggy

I agree that that list might be nice to have here but then OTOH, it
doesn't seem accurate so maybe it's not a good idea after all.

I'm not aware of any ex-VSI employess that were hired by Corel. There
were a few that Corel contracted with briefly to help with the
transition, though.

Karl

Date: 1993-12-01,23:22
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: .2 is STIL buggy

James--

I second the motion for all items on your wish list (except the OS/2
version, for which I personally would have no use, now or in the
future), and have good reason to believe we'll see many, if not all, of
them in 5.0.

I have found FontMinder quite speedy, at my end--especially the new 2.0
version, which has lots of added features.  And it, of course, is why
many megabytes of fonts do *not* slow my system to a crawl.

In any case, I'd never move all 600+ fonts to my hard drive.

The DBPublisher is only a "waste" if you do no DBPublish-ing.  If you
*do*, those I know who've used it say it can't be topped.

Corel's "attitude" will better be judged with the advent of CVP 5.0.
Right now, we're looking at a shiny new face and a stunningly low price
on a slightly enhanced product.  IOW, marketing par excellence, and a
potential new lease on life for Ventura.  5.0 will be a much longer and
more telling tale, I'm sure.

Regards,

--Dave Makulec


Date: 1993-12-02,18:24
From: James A. Rome 70673,3725
To: David Makulec 70524,716
Subject: 4.2 is STIL buggy

I have FontMinder 2.0 and it crawls for me. Maybe I am doing something
wrong. It takes over 20 minutes to either load or unload all of my
fonts (I only have 300).So, I am living with only a few.

I agree with your comments except OS/2. For $39, you should try it
since it will improve your productivity, and save you whenever VP
crashes. Also, while printing, you can work on something else.

Jim Rome


Date: 1993-12-03,06:56
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: 4.2 is STIL buggy

Jim--

While I'm printing I can work on something else right now, today.  A
good print spooler called PrintCache doesthat for me, no OS/2 required.
I agree that in *other* instances, a true multi-threaded environment
would be a blessing.  Despite the current bargain on OS/2, I'm waiting
for Win4/Chicago--when I'll have a more appropriate system for running
*either* system.

Though FontMinder loads or unload 300 fonts on my system in
considerably less than 20 minutes (2 or 3, I think, on my 386/33), any
delay there would be nothing compared to the speed hit from running
Windows with all 300 installed simultaneously.  So I rarely install
more than 100 max at once.

Regards,

--Dave Makulec

Date: 1993-11-30,09:36
From: Michael Dempsey 70451,222
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: TIF Getting Clipped

All the screen captures come either from the Technical Editor or the
Author. I forget what the TE uses, but it is a well known industry
leading product. Don't know what the author uses and do not have
contact with him under our working arrangement.

I would remind you that the full capture is there in the original TIF
file.

I am implementing a work around for this project, but would still
appreciate it if anyone knows the cause/solution to this "yuck."

Thanks for you help.

Date: 1993-11-30,09:39
From: Michael Dempsey 70451,222
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: TIF Getting Clipped

This varies.

Some are almost full screen, but the window is not maximized because we
want the window border.

They are put into frames that range from 24x18 picas down to much
smaller.

The problems seems to be vary democratic. It screws up any size, but
not every frame. This inconsistency bothers me as much as anything.

Thanks for any ideas.


Date: 1993-11-30,11:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Michael Dempsey 70451,222
Subject: TIF Getting Clipped

The place to start with screen captures is in the Sizing and Scaling dialog
box, using the known pixel dimensions of the capture. If, say, you have a 300
x 200 pixel capture, size the frame according to the resolution of your
output device:

     300 pixels / 300 d.p.i. = 1 inch wide
     200 pixels / 300 d.p.i. = 2/3 inch high (4 picas)

Then, change the Picture Scaling to By Scale Factors and the Aspect Ratio to
Distorted.

If you want the image larger, multiply the above values by whole integers and
enter those values in both the Frame Width and height AND the Picture Width
and Height.

Letting Ventura size the image with Fit in Frame and Maintained can lead to
the kind of truncating that you reported, as can sizing with other than whole
integer multipliers.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  9:10a]


Date: 1993-12-02,16:49
From: Michael Dempsey 70451,222
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: TIF Getting Clipped

The approach I used was:

1. Create frame 24picas high by 18picas wide.
2. Load TIF file.
3. Change to Scale by Factor.
4. Made frame and graphic 24 picas wide
5. Then made frame height equal to graphic height.

I do not think you can set Scale by Factor until after the graphic is
in the frame.

Thanks again for your response and help.


Date: 1993-12-02,17:57
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Michael Dempsey 70451,222
Subject: TIF Getting Clipped

>> I do not think you can set Scale by Factor until after the graphic is in
   the frame. <<

That is true, but you still haven't told me what the actual pixel dimensions
are of this TIF that you are trying to scale, nor the resolution of your
output device.

With a 300 d.p.i. output device, 24 picas will work for 1200, 600, 300, 240,
200, 150, 120, 100, 75, 60, 50, 30, 25, 24, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, 3, 2, and 1
pixels.

With a 300 d.p.i. output device, 18 picas will work for 900, 450, 300, 225,
180, 150, 100, 90, 75, 60, 50, 45, 36, 30, 25, 20, 18, 15, 12, 10, 9, 6, 5,
4, 3, 2 and 1 pixels.

Any pixel counts between these at the dimensions of 24 and/or 18 picas will
cause rounding and, thus, distortion of the image--possibly the problem you
are seeing.

I'd be more than happy to run the numbers for you, but you have to give me
the information I need to do so.


     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993  3:39p]

Date: 1993-11-30,01:36
From: rick Klobuchar 76337,2121
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: VP4.1 & Norton Desktop

John and Steve,

Thanks for your response on my problem with Ventura Publisher 4.1 and
Norton Desktop for Windows.  I recently installed NDW 3.0 over NDW 2.1.
Had lots of problems; as did/do many others. You ought to read some of
the messages on "Go SYMUTIL".

My problem was that once I unraveled NDW 3.0, I tried to run VP 4.1.
VP4.1 started to look for a style sheet that was not on my system; the
last .chp that I had loaded I believe I had loaded off of a floppy
diskette.  At that time, VP4.1 started to rebuild environ.wid as
expected and I have lots of True Type fonts (over 75).  Normally, this
takes a while.  Well after about two-three minutes, my VP4.1 screen
came up with the document placement, but then the mouse and cursor
froze solid.  I never really got a GPF so I can't give you the text.
The only escpe was a three-finger salute "CONTROL-ALT-DELETE".

I then changed shell to progman.exe in my system.ini file. Ran Windows
and sucessfuly loaded VP4.1 with its rebuild of environ.wid.  I saved
an untitled.chp with a style sheet with a different .wid filename.  I
then went back to shell=ndw.exe for Norton desktop for Windows 3.0 and
tried to re-run VP4.1.  This time it worked; but then again it did not
have to rebuild environ,wid.

So I don't know whether this was a one-time only problem with NDW 3.0;
or whether everytime I change a width table I will have the same
problem with a freeze up.  I will advise.

Thanks for the Help,

Rick


Date: 1993-11-30,11:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: rick Klobuchar 76337,2121
Subject: VP4.1 & Norton Desktop

Thanks for your diagnostic description on the interaction between NDW and
VP4.1.1. That goes a long way toward tracking down just what situations to
avoid, and I must commend you for returning to report your findings.

Many times, people just disappear once they get headed in the right direction
and we never know whether they fixed the problem or heaved the whole
computer over the balcony railing and got a job with the sanitation
department. Personally, I think that's garbage.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  8:46a]

Date: 1993-11-29,19:33
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

I'm ready and willing to blame SHARE for anything I possibly can, but
in this case I can't see how it would be possible.



Date: 1993-11-30,11:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

I didn't realize until I reviewed the messages on this that the file in
question was actually *not* on the installation disk in the first place. I
suppose we can't blame SHARE for that. How about Bush?

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  8:37a]


Date: 1993-12-03,19:16
From: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

Byron,

Alright.  Now for those of us who purchased this program quickly...
Does this mean that Customer Service will:  a)send me another disk
without this file? b)send all of us new registered users a full release
in a month or so with this fix and a few others?

By the way, David, thanks for sending the file.  I do have a
confession. Running my 486, I had never experienced a program taking so
long to load.  My first problem with the system "Locking" may have been
a case of yours truly not waiting long enough.  I'm just not certain.
NO other program has ever taken as long to load.

I created a Newsletter for parents at our school.  The learning curve
is going to be somewhat slow for many functions.  Your developers could
take a lesson or two from the folks in Redmond in the ease of use
department as they prepare version 5.0.

Question:  How does one link text files?

Thanks,

Bernie Joy


Date: 1993-12-03,22:53
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

Bernard,

You're certainly right about the slow load times.  This has a long
technical explanation, but the upshot is that it only needs to happen
once (for a given font setup in Windows, at least).

What it takes to sidestep the lengthy startup cycle does not take long
to do, but since it is a little complicated to explain, I wrote a
utility program called ENVIRX.EXE which does the trick for you.  It can
be downloaded from LIB 4 (it's $free).  You'll see that it talks about
"relinking" your style sheets.  If you relink the style sheets that you
are using, particularly the last one you use before exiting Ventura
Publisher, you will find that the load times suddenly become very
short.

You're also right about ease of learning and ease of use.  For now,
please let us help you as much as you like.

You asked how to "link text files"--I am not sure exactly what you mean
by that.  You can do two things in Ventura that might be called linking
text files, and both are done by using the Load Text/Picture item in
the File menu.  If you simply want to bring a text file into a frame in
your Ventura chapter, select that frame and then use the Load
Text/Picture item to select the file.  If you want to add the contents
of a text file to another text file that already has been brought into
a frame, you can do that by placing the text cursor at the point where
you would like the second file to be inserted, and then using the Load
Text/Picture menu item--this time, though, you'd check the little
button that says "Cursor".



Date: 1993-12-05,20:43
From: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

David,

Thanks for the pointers.  By linking frames, I was referring to being
able to have text flow from one text frame to another text frame.  I
realize that the full page frames do this automatically by creating
another page frame on the following page.  How can I do this with
smaller frames that I have created so that I can have a small leader on
the first page with the remainder of the story found on page X.

Thanks again,

Bernie


Date: 1993-12-05,22:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

Ah--that's actually quite easy, and I'm sorry that I didn't understand
you right away.

All you have to do is select the frame that you want to be first in the
text flow sequence, then select the file from the file list; then
select the frame that you want to be second in the text flow sequence,
and again select the file from the file list; and so on.  Ventura
Publisher will cause the text to flow from frame to frame in the order
you select.

The one exception to this is that _page_ order has precedence over
_frame_ order.  Text will always flow forwards from page to page--you
can't have your first frame be on page 10 and the second be on page 9,
for example.



Date: 1993-12-06,03:23
From: Alan Rodgers 72347,2465
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

       It's interesting to look at it this way: what VPWin does with a
text file is a lot like what it does with an OLE graphics file. It'd be
interesting to see VP try to deal with text through OLE/Link. It'll
also be interesting to see if the rest of the world usesthis capability
-- ultimately, the OS could end up turning VP into a frame server.



Date: 1993-12-06,07:40
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Alan Rodgers 72347,2465
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

Ventura Publisher 1.0 was the world's first OLE 2.0 application, except
it used "manual linking."

Date: 1993-12-06,00:44
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

An amendment to David's comments about flowing text. If you are flowing text
into more than one frame on the same page, selecting the frame in the order
you want the text to flow is not sufficient. The frames must have been placed
on the page in the order the text needs to flow--either created or
pasted--regardless of horizontal or vertical position on the page.

     BARN [Sun 05-DEC-1993 10:14p]

Date: 1993-12-04,00:02
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bernard J. Joy 76170,2735
Subject: CVP 4.2 missing file,etc

>> Alright.  Now for those of us who purchased this program quickly...  Does
   this mean that Customer Service will:
       a) send me another disk without this file?
       b) send all of us new registered users a full release in a month or so
          with this fix and a few others? <<

As I am not employed by Corel, I can't really answer those questions, at
least, not in a meaningful way, because I don't know the answers.

There are Corel representatives that pop in here from time to time--more
often as time goes on--and they should see this question, but if you want a
more direct route to the answers you seek, Section 7 is specifically for
Customer Service, and, if even more immediacy is needed, a call to the
customer service number at Corel might be in order.



     BARN [Fri 03-DEC-1993  9:46p]

Date: 1993-12-04,11:25
From: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Just like Fr Anthony Nelson, I am also unable to fax from VPWIN using
the Complete Communicator hardware and software. The CCW software seems
to work fine with other Windows programs, like Write, Ami Pro, and even
Framemaker - just not with VPWIN.

Unfortunately, using another fax program is not a viable solution,
because other fax programs like WinFax Pro don't work with the Complete
Communicator. Short of replacing the Complete Communicator with a new
fax/modem board and a separate telephone answering machine, or
replacing Ventura as the basis of my business, I don't have any
solution.

Does Corel/VP, the Complete PC,  or anyone else out there have an
answer to getting VPWIN and the CCW to work together?


Date: 1993-12-04,12:39
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Nancy,

I have a strong suspicion about the cause of the problem, and if I am
right, a workaround should be possible.  However, since my fax software
works perfectly well with Ventura Publisher, and I don't have any fax
software that does not do so, I can neither test the workaround myself
nor promise that it will do what you need.

What I have in mind would require you to use a special utility program
(with its own Windows icon) to start Ventura Publisher for you when you
intend to send a fax.  Some fiddling around with settings may be needed
as well.  So this is a rather inconvenient situation, not the kind that
can be efficiently handled on a forum like this unless you are a
frequent visitor and are willing to enter into what may be a
more-than-minimal exchange of messages.

I also have to check and probably revise the utility in question
(LVFREE.EXE in LIB 4) so that it is compatible with Corel Ventura 4.2.



Date: 1993-12-04,16:46
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

David, I've been using the existing version of LVFREE.EXE (10,976
bytes, dated 7/31/93) with 4.2 without incident. However, I'm only
using it for the reload dialog, not the memory reserve.


Date: 1993-12-05,11:47
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Steve Samson 76054,1176
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Steve,

LVFREE loads Ventura Publisher by constructing a command line with the
fixed character string "VPWIN.EXE" in it.  I don't see how that can
possibly work with CORELVP.EXE unless you have renamed it to VPWIN.EXE!
If the reload function is all you need, RSVP.EXE (LIB 4) will take care
of that, and it has definitely been updated for use with CORELVP.EXE.

I'm working on an even newer version of RSVP that will patch the
program during the load cycle to speed up certain width table-related
operations, but that depends on available free time--of which I have
none available at present.



Date: 1993-12-05,20:03
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

I edited the command line in LVFREE.INI to provide the proper CVP 4.2
string. Yes, the initialization process rejects "CORELVP.EXE", but if
you bypass it, no problem. I'd use RSVP if it provided the same reload
dialog as LVFREE. Has your update included that change?


Date: 1993-12-05,22:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Steve Samson 76054,1176
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Steve,

I wouldn't suggest using LVFREE unless you really need the memory trick
that it does, e.g. on a system with very low available conventional
memory.

What RSVP does is to start CORELVP or VPWIN and open the last chapter
you were working on.  It doesn't even bring up a dialog box first--it
assumes that you want this done (on the theory that if you didn't want
that done, you would have used CORELVP's or VPWIN's own icon).

RSVP.EXE must be in the directory that VPWIN.EXE or CORELVP.EXE is
installed in.  For most CORELVP users and any other users whose /I=
argument does not point to that same directory, you must add the same
/I= argument to RSVP's own "Program Item Properties" command line.  (If
you don't, RSVP will catch this and report it as an error.)

Date: 1993-12-07,23:55
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

 >> I'm working on an even newer version of RSVP that will patch the
 >> program during the load cycle to speed up certain width
table-related
 >> operations,

I prefer LVFREE's options for reloading over RSVP's. I would just as
soon have only one icon rather than several. Actually, I don't have any
icons since I am using BackMenu, but the point is the same.

I also like the fact that LVFREE will also automatically load VPCC is
desired.

Of course, depending on what Corel does with CVP5, this may all become
irrelevant However, if Corel screws up CVP5, your utilities for 4.2 and
4.1.1 may become more valuable than ever for those that
don't/won't/can't upgrade.

 -jrh


Date: 1993-12-08,07:04
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Jim,

Thanks for your comments.  I expect to post the new LVFREE today with
the same options as before, except that I want it to set its limit on
reserved DOS memory higher than the 32 KB limit of the old version; I
think the people who are having fax problems will need it.  That
actually requires changing two lines of code, not just a constant, so I
have to wake up first.

Do you have (or can you duplicate) the faxing problem?

Date: 1993-12-04,21:59
From: Brian Lowe 76640,2664
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Hi, David,

I am *very* interested in a solution to this problem. Just to give you
a quick background, there is a GPF after choosing the fax printer
driver from the VP (or CVP) Printer Setup dialog and pressing "OK."

If you need any addtional info, let me know.

Regards, Brian


Date: 1993-12-05,11:47
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Brian Lowe 76640,2664
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Brian,

In the next few days I will modify LVFREE to work with CVP, and will
send you a reply letting you know that it is available for download.  I
hope that it will help you and the others here who have had this
problem.



Date: 1993-12-05,20:32
From: Brian Lowe 76640,2664
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Hi, David,

I'll give your solution a try when it's ready, then let you know the
results.

thanks in advance!

Brian

Date: 1993-12-07,20:23
From: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

David,

Thanks for your response to the VPWIN/CPC fax problem. I did try LVFREE
previously, without success. I'll be looking for the update when you
can post it. Thanks again.


Date: 1993-12-07,23:04
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Nancy,

I've done most of the work on the updated LVFREE; I just need to get a
night's sleep and do some more testing before posting it.

Date: 1993-12-04,21:56
From: Brian Lowe 76640,2664
To: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Hi, Nancy,

I also have a Complete Communicator and understand your problem. I have
tried all the fixes I have seen suggested on this forum (hyphenation
algorithm change, et al) and have had no success. I hoped that CVP 4.2
would fix it but it did not. I have not discussed the problem with the
folks at The Complete PC, so if you do find a solution, I would like to
know about it!

By the way, VP 4.01 did fax OK and I kept it on my system until I had
to have the disk space. (I had 4.1.1 on for working, then went to 4.0.1
when I had to fax. There were minor font mix-up problems going between
the two, but not too bad.)

Regards, Brian


Date: 1993-12-07,20:29
From: Nancy Hess 71234,2512
To: Brian Lowe 76640,2664
Subject: Faxing From VPWin

Brian,

I had exactly the same experiences with VPWIN 4.01 (Faxed OK) and VPWIN
4.1 (causes GPF) with the Complete Communicator. I called the people at
Complete PC a few months ago, and they were sympathetic but not too
interested in offering a solution.

Unless our Sysop's updated LVFREE program can work, I guess we'll have
to shell out the $$ for a new fax/modem and separate answering machine.
Oh well, i needed a faster modem anyway.

Thanks for your response.

Date: 1993-12-06,00:00
From: Michael F. 70671,2234
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: update for 4.1.1?

"The reason you haven't heard anything about Corel Ventura 4.2 before
is that Corel has not sent out an upgrade notice to the user base."

David,
Do you mean this as "has not yet" or "will not". If the second, can the
bug fix files be dl'd.

Mike


Date: 1993-12-06,07:40
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Michael F. 70671,2234
Subject: update for 4.1.1?

Michael,

I'm surprised that Corel would go to the trouble of creating CVP 4.2
and not send out a notice to the user base; I would certainly have
expected such a notice, but Corel "marches to the beat of a different
drummer" in many respects, it seems.

There is no separate set of "bug fix" files as opposed to "new feature"
files, so there is unfortunately no way for us to post the 4.2 bug
fixes by themselves.  Most of the major program modules were updated,
and it is not a $free upgrade like 4.01 or 4.1.1 was.

Or did you mean bug fixes since the release of 4.2?  If and when there
are any, we will post them here if we can.  I believe, however, that
Corel's engineering attention is focused on the major upgrade that is
to come in 1994.  CVP 4.2 was largely produced by VSI and its "assets",
and for the most part those people are not now in the picture, so I
would be surprised if any further programming work is done on the
existing code base.  Maybe we can persuade them to produce a couple of
new word processor filters (since that work can be handled without
affecting the rest of the project), but other than that I believe CVP
4.2 is the end of the line for the original code base.



Date: 1993-12-07,10:38
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: update for 4.1.1?

<of creating CVP 4.2 and not send out a notice to the user base>

I received *3* copies of the upgrade pacakage yesterday, mailed bulk
from Southhaven Mississippi (Southhaven? Sounds more like Maine or that
part of the world than Mississppi, but that is the location in the
mailing permit imprint)

Doubtless, more will arrive today.

X:-] Mac Townsend, Adcom Graphics Fairfield, Calif 6:26a 07-Dec-93


Date: 1993-12-07,15:11
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
Subject: update for 4.1.1?

>> I receive 3 copies of the upgrade package ...

Had you ordered any?



Date: 1993-12-08,09:26
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: update for 4.1.1?

There I go being imprecise. :(

I misused "package"--I received 3 copies of the solicitation or upgrade
notice. I have not ordered. And I am wondering if I should...the
problem with placing eps files that don't have a tiff header concerns
me (at present) because I oten use this as a way to impose small
pages...export the pages as eps files then bring them into a new
chapter.

Sorry to confuse.

X:-] Mac Townsend, Adcom Graphics Fairfield, Calif 5:55a 08-Dec-93

Date: 1993-11-30,18:44
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Ventura font mappings

I loaded the VP v.2 CHARSET.CHP and the character mapping is IDENTICAL
to the VP Gem version I already had (the Windows version just looks a
little prettier).

My problem is still WHERE ARE THE FUNCTION KEYS.

This is a COREL FONT, why can't I use it with a COREL product, and
don't give me the CRAP about how you just picked up Ventura and are
making changes.  I need to produce output and need to make this happen.

HOW DO I GET THE REST OF THE KEYSTROKE FONT to work with VP WINDOWS?



Date: 1993-11-30,20:40
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura font mappings

Richard,

I don't work for Corel.  Please don't yell at me or call what I am
telling you "crap."  I am a Ventura user who has volunteered to help
other users here on this forum; I have done so for a number of years,
and have devoted a great deal of time and effort for zero pay.  I don't
deserve to be maligned, nor, in my opinion, does Corel.

In fonts that are mapped in a non-standard way, such as a keycap font,
not all the characters will necessarily be accessible in Ventura
Publisher. Function keys are not letters of the alphabet, or numerals,
or standard punctuation; they are special symbols, and there is no
standard definition for the character codes to represent them.  It is a
hit-or-miss proposition.

The same problem occurs with other specially mapped fonts such as
expert set fonts with ligatures, ornaments and the like.  It can't be
solved merely by acting irate.  Computers don't work that way.

_Perhaps_ the characters are accessible.  In my previous message I
suggested that you try VPCC.EXE (LIB 4 of this forum) as a quick and
easy way to get at non-ASCII character codes; I am suggesting it again.
You will spare yourself all the trouble over
Alt+NumLock+look-it-up-in-a-chart; all you have to do is select the
font and click on the character you want, and VPCC will send it
directly to your text cursor.

If the characters are above ASCII code 127 and are accessible in
Ventura Publisher, VPCC will display them, and you will be able to
select them visually.  If not, you will know that they are not
accessible in Ventura Publisher and that you will have to take another
approach.



Date: 1993-12-01,19:49
From: Richard Groff 72622,3671
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Ventura font mappings

Uh, oh! Does this mean that CVP hasn't been updated to use the standard
Windows font layout? I abandoned Ventura a few years ago because of its
bizarre font mapping and incompatibilities with Windows, among other
things (slow font loading being the most notable). I just ordered the
CVP 4.2 upgrade and WAS waiting expectantly for a truly usable VP. I
use a utility (Compose) that allows me to access the extended character
set by means of a two-letter mnemonic (avoiding the ALT+NumPad
rigamarole) but it's mapped to the standard Windows layout.

Oh, well. Maybe there'll be some usable fonts and clipart at least.


Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard Groff 72622,3671
Subject: Ventura font mappings

Richard,

Whatever you may think of the practice, all Windows versions of Ventura
Publisher--up to and including Corel Ventura 4.2--use the Ventura
International Character Set internally.  I will not bore you with the
reasoning behind this; if Windows 3.0 had included all the characters
that are defined in Windows 3.1, this would not have been necessary.

I personally would expect the situation to change in the next _major_
upgrade, which is due from Corel next year.  Version 4.2, while it has
some nice features and fixes some bugs that reall needed fixing, is not
a major upgrade either in official terms or in terms of a user's
perspective.

Date: 1993-11-30,09:14
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Help with CVP4.2, please

BARN!, Thank you very much for your answers.  Is the information you
gave located somewhere in the manuals or online documentation?  This is
just the kind of info. that used to be in the back of the old Dos
manuals (for Paradox 3.5, Quatro 1.0 for Dos etc.)  It seems to be
missing from most recent manuals, - or is it just me having problems
reading?

Best Regards

Bjorn


(I hope you are aware that Barn in Norwegian is the plural of Child -
so your signature means Children?)





Date: 1993-11-30,11:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: Help with CVP4.2, please

You're welcome.

>> Is the information you gave located somewhere in the manuals or online
   documentation? <<

I don't believe so--most of this info is gleaned from users' experience since
the release of the program.

>> I hope you are aware that Barn in Norwegian is the plural of Child - so
   your signature means Children? <<

No, I was not aware of that. I like it--besides, I'm one quarter Norwegian,
and not so vaguely childlike.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  9:05a]

Date: 1993-11-29,19:13
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: sysop
Subject: Frame Runaround

I am having problems with frames in flow-text mode in VPWIN 4.1.1.

If I place a frame into a block of text with flow-text set to ON, VPWIN
will not allow any page text to co-exist with the top and bottom lines
of the frame.

What happens is that all text is forced onto the next line. This causes
a blank line to appear above the frame and a blank line at the right of
the frame at the lower RH corner which extends to the RH margin.

This makes the frame flow-text mode pretty useless and causes me big
problems. I upgraded from the DOS/GEM 3.0 version and this didn't
happen.

Are there any patch files?  Is this fixed in v4.2?  Can anybody please
help?

For God's sake beam me up Scotty!!!


Date: 1993-11-30,09:46
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

I'm not clear on the symptom, from your description. If you have a moment,
use the Manage Publication (File menu) to perform a CopyAll of the chapter to
a floppy disk. Then delete the WID file that gets unnecessarily put on the
disk, ZIP up the remaining files and upload to Library 13 (uploads are free
of CIS connect charges). As soon as it becomes available, I'll download it
and take a look.

     BARN [Mon 29-NOV-1993  5:39p]


Date: 1993-11-30,18:06
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

OK Byron, thanks for your help you won't need the WID table to play
with this. I'll try to explain a little clearer.

When placing a frame into a paragraph with the intention of using the
runaround feature, you should be able to run the text along the top the
frame, trickle it down both sides and then continue below the frame.
Paragraph spacing settings and/or frame padding will play a part here
in determining how much "fresh air" is left between the text and the
frame.

With NO padding and nominal spacing settings, say 10pt text on 12pt
pitch, it should be possible to balance the text around the frame with
the frame being clipped to the baseline using the line snap option.

What happens is that the line above the frame is forced to wrap all
text to the next line causing an unwanted blank line to appear above
the frame, then, similarly, the line which coincides with the lower
edge of the frame also has all the text forced onto the line below
causing an unwanted blank half-line bewteen the frame and the right
margin.

Hope this helps,  I'll stick a ZIP file called RUNROUND.ZIP into
library 13 for you.  It will point to drive A: as you suggest.

Thanks for your help

Regards

Greg Hogan


Date: 1993-11-30,19:16
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

I think I know what you mean, now.

The Line Snap function, that constrains the vertical placement of a manually
drawn frame is, as you probably know, based on the Inter-Line Space value for
the Body Text paragraph tag. The snaps start at the top margin and progress
down the page in increments equal to that Inter-Line Space. However, if,
somewhere in the middle of a page, another paragraph tag is applied that does
not use EXACTLY the same spacing, the "leading grid" of the text itself no
longer matches the line snap positions.

Try turning the Line Snap off, and reposition the frame without it.

This is one reason that I seldom actually apply the Body Text tag to
anything. I keep it a 3-point font, with 3 points Inter-line space, so that
the Line Snap value will snap the frames in nice even quarter-pica increments
down the page, regardless of how the text is formatted.

It may also help to disable vertical justification, if you are using it at
all. This REALLY wreaks havoc with the interaction between text and frames.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  5:14p]


Date: 1993-11-30,19:55
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

BARN,

Greg's file is in LIB 13 and will become visible at 2 a.m. East Coast
time.

Date: 1993-12-01,17:35
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

Thanks for the info, there is so much interactive stuff in Ventura it
is both a wonder and a minefield at the same time. One never stops
learning!

It is not often my pate is addled thus, I must be getting senile - I'm
definitely working too late!

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Greg

Date: 1993-11-29,20:19
From: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
To: sysop
Subject: Unable to init Setup

I received my 4.2 upgrade tonight.

I loaded the CD into my I drive (CD drive>.

I tried to Run the Setup program and got the message:

Unable to initialize Corel Ventura Setup.

Tried twice. Nogo. The second time it says Corel Ventura Setup is
already running.

Any suggestions?

- Dan




Date: 1993-11-29,21:49
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
Subject: Unable to init Setup

This is only a hunch, but--does your AUTOEXEC.BAT have a "SET TEMP="
statement?  If so, is it pointing to a directory that is actually
there? (The SETUP program uses TEMP a lot.)



Date: 1993-11-30,00:07
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Two anomalies in installing 4.2 (from 3.5 diskettes):

1. My TEMP directory vanished after the install. (I was running MSD for
another purpose and came upon that problem en passant.)

2. At first execution, CVP issued an erroneous message that I had no
printer selected or no default printer. I reselected the same default
printer as before and then got the ENVIRON.WID prompt. No such
occurrence since.



Date: 1993-11-30,09:01
From: Vivi 76711,721
To: Steve Samson 76054,1176
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Steve,

Re: <<2. At first execution, CVP issued an erroneous message that I had
no printer selected or no default printer.>>

I've gotten this message a few times too. All I did was exit/launch
Windows, and the problem went away. Its not a problem that I've been
able to duplicate consistently.

Vivi Nichol


Date: 1993-11-30,10:26
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Vivi 76711,721
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Vivi,

FYI, what triggers that message is that CVP tries to do a
GetProfileString() (i.e. read the user's WIN.INI) to find the "Device="
entry in the [Windows] section.  If that call fails, you get the error
message.

I don't know why that call should ever fail if a default printer is
selected, however--and I've never seen the error message come up when I
did have a default printer driver installed.



Date: 1993-11-30,12:56
From: Vivi 76711,721
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Unable to init Setup

David,

Re: <<I don't know why that call should ever fail if a default printer
is selected, however--and I've never seen the error message come up
when I did have a default printer driver installed.>>

The former Ventura QA Manager (?) explained the problem to me, but I
couldn't remember what caused it. Thanks for the info.

Vivi

Date: 1993-11-30,14:08
From: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Nope. No SET TEMP= statement.

- Dan




Date: 1993-11-30,17:59
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Please create a TEMP subdirectory somewhere on a disk that has at least
5 or 6 MB of unused space on it--I use C:\WINDOWS\TEMP myself--and add
a line to AUTOEXEC.BAT that says, "SET TEMP=x:\xxxx\TEMP" where
"x:\xxxx" is the directory in which you created your TEMP subdirectory.
That is a standard part of setting up a system to run Windows!



Date: 1993-12-01,11:11
From: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Unable to init Setup

Will do and will let you know what happens.

- Dan

Date: 1993-11-29,22:07
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Hilary 100240,1624
Subject: Application file dates

For the original U.S. release of VP 4.0, all the files should be dated
12-18-91 with a time stamp of 4:00a.m.--but are you not a U.K.
customer? As I recall, the U.K. version 4.0 came out about six weeks
later, i.e. in early 1992.

If you have any specific questions about what belongs with what, feel
free to ask here.

Files left over from the DOS/GEM edition do not, as a rule, cause
problems for the Windows edition.  The opposite is not true, though--a
DEFAULT.STY from VP/Win 4.0, for example, could cause VP/GEM to fail at
load time.



Date: 1993-12-01,21:10
From: Hilary 100240,1624
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Application file dates

Many thanks for the info, David. I had a feeling that the GEM files
might not be interfering, but something is. Could font files from
previous versions be a problem, or is that a dumb question?

Anyway, cleaning up the directory can't hurt -- maybe my VPWin 4 can
then get up off its knees and start toddling.

Cheers,
Hilary


Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Hilary 100240,1624
Subject: Application file dates

Font files from the DOS/GEM edition would not come into the picture
unless they were also installed (deliberately) in the Windows
environment.  And if they are appropriate fonts for use in Windows,
they should cause no difficulty for Ventura Publisher.



Date: 1993-12-08,00:47
From: Hilary 100240,1624
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Application file dates

David, thanks for the info. I'm just about to install my newly-arrived
4.2. Wish me luck!

Cheers,
Hilary

Date: 1993-11-29,22:59
From: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
To: All/Sysop
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

Anybody know if the upcoming version of Ventura for Windows will be
able to read Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0 documents.  We have a
couple of macros developed in WFW 2.0 that get automatically read by
Ventura.  Now they don't work cause Ventura can't read how they are
saved.  Maybe can find a  way to change to word basic code to save the
files in 2.0 format, but for now have switched back to WFW 2.0.  We
have ordered the Corel version to be shipped sometime soon (hopefully)
and are wondering if this problem will be solved?


Date: 1993-11-30,10:04
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

There isn't a filter for W4W 6.0 files in the shipping CVP 4.2 and no
plans have been announced for including one at a later date. It looks
like saving in the earlier format is your only option at this point.

Karl

Date: 1993-11-30,11:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

No, there are no import filters in CVP 4.2 for Word for Windows 6.0 or Word
Perfect for Windows 6.0. I suspect that Corel will address those filters for
the next version--they didn't have time for 4.2.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993  8:41a]

Date: 1993-11-29,23:11
From: Anders 70022,3067
To: All
Subject: REG.DAT and 4.11

I recently installed version 4.11 (UK) of Ventura and noticed that, in
contrast to other applications, it created its own REG.DAT file in the
SYSTEMS subdirectory, not in the Windows directory. It also stuck an
extra copy of REGEDIT.EXE into the SYSTEM subdirectory though this
program was already installed in the Windows directory.

Is this as should be? What are the reasons and implications? I am a bit
concerned about having two REG.DAT database files. Only the one in the
Windows directory gets updated as new applications are installed.

Grateful for your help,

Anders


Date: 1993-11-30,10:44
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Anders 70022,3067
Subject: REG.DAT and 4.11

No, as far as I know that's anything but the right way for an installer
to handle registration, but that's how VSI did it starting with version
4.0. It's as if they thought they could substitute their REG.DAT for
yours.

I'm not an OLE programmer or even an OLE user so I don't know anything
more to tell you--I would probably start, though, by deleting the
duplicate copy of REGEDIT.EXE, and then using the valid copy of REGEDIT
to see what is in the actual database.  If there are no entries for
Ventura Publisher then I would try to add them, according to the
REG.DAT supplied by Ventura.

As I recall from 4.0, the Ventura-supplied REG.DAT mostly contains
entries that they thought would be typical for other OLE applications
on a user's system; most of it does not concern Ventura Publisher.
Thus the entries you would need to transfer to your "real" REG.DAT
would be very few.

--I have an enormous, rush typesetting job at the moment; when I finish
it (it must be at the printers on Thursday morning), I'll look into
this more closely and post another message here.  Thank you for
bringing this subject up, though--it's a good chance to take care of an
old piece of unfinished business.



Date: 1993-12-01,16:38
From: Anders 70022,3067
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: REG.DAT and 4.11

Yeah, I figured it was a bit strange. Either there was a thought behind
the idea of putting an extra REG.DAT and an extra REGEDIT.EXE in the
SYSTEM subdirectory, in which case that thought needs some explanation.
Or there was no thought in which case there is a problem to be fixed.
Would be very grateful if you could look into this.

Regards,

Anders

Date: 1993-11-30,18:54
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

Byron,

I've uploaded a file called RUNROUND.ZIP into library 13 as suggested
(at least I think it went there!).

Guess what? I do believe the problem seems to have cured itself!!!
Would you believe it!!!

I have changed nothing, but tonight all appears to be reasonably OK
when working on the same files. EEK!

I think I need to trap my head in a cupboard or something.... maybe I
need to participate in Psychotherapy rather than just write about it!

I would still appreciate your fondling the sample files and passing an
opinion!

Many Thanks

Greg


Date: 1993-12-01,00:44
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

I will take a look at the file. David Satz tells me it will be available for
download at 2 a.m. on Dec. 1 (tomorrow in the wee hours). Til then, I can't
get at it.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993 10:02p]

Date: 1993-12-01,12:52
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

I have looked at your file.

The first thing that happened was the VP reported that it couldn't load the
text file with the selected filter. Even so, the filename showed in the file
list, though it did not appear on the page. I removed it from the file list
and reimported it with the WordPerfect 5.0 filter, and all was well.

However, I did see the symptom that you noted, but only after I turned on the
Flow Text Around on the frames, which you had apparently turned off. Since
you have all your text indented anyway, you might as well leave the Flow Text
Around turned off. This will alleviate the problem.

There is a problem with vertical placement of paragraphs adjacent to frames,
that I have noted (no telling whether this has been acknowledged by TPTB),
when text has an In From Left established to accomplish an effective left
margin, and frames are placed that impose themselves in the seemingly blank
area.

I saw no paragraphs in the chapter that extended to the "real" left margin,
and I have to wonder why you chose to use an In From Left instead of just
setting the left margin in. I can only presume that this was so that you
could use the Column Snap to horizontally align the frames containing the
TIFs. In any case, if you have no other reason for having the left margin as
it is, change that to where the In From Left occurs, now, and remove the In
From Left from all those tags. This still allows you to put headlines out to
the left, so there is no detriment there.

You can get the frames to snap into position with another method. Move the
frame vertically, as needed, with the Flow Text Around on or off--makes no
difference.

One time only, you need to select a frame, and go into the Sizing and
Scaling dialog box to ensure that the unit of measure is set properly, i.e.
to inches, if that's the way you work. Then, also one time only (barring
mistakes, that is) activate the Windows Macro Recorder, and after assigning
a keystroke combination that suits you, record the KEYSTROKES (no mouse
activity) that access the Frame menu, select the Left Side value, and enter
the value necessary, i.e., with the frame selected (ignore the spaces):

    Alt+r+s Alt+L 0.75 [Enter]

At that point, halt the macro recording (Ctrl+Break), and select Save. If you
intend to use this macro in subsequent Windows sessions, you will also need
to actually save the REC file to a suitable location with a suitable name.

Thereafter, with the Macro Recorder running and with your macro file loaded
into it, you need only select a frame, move it to the appropriate vertical
position, and then enter the keystrokes you defined for the macro, to get the
horizontal position set up correctly for that frame. Then move on to the next
frame.

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993 10:51a]


Date: 1993-12-01,17:59
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

Your estimate is correct, the "real" left margin is used solely for
snapping the small margin TIFs onto whenever they occur. Old habits die
hard I'm afraid.

On the topic of old habits, it's a shame the ol' CTRL X combination
can't cancel a dialogue box in VPWIN. I always thought this was a great
function being able to pop up/down the last dialogue box so easily, it
made settings checks a doddle when hopping from tag to tag during style
designs.

Still, there are lots of improvements over the DOS/GEM version.

I did report spellchecker find/replace nonsense to VENTURA UK earlier
in the year which was acknowledged, (inserting 24 or so consecutive
repeats of the replacement text). Will this be fixed in 4.2?  Also what
about the poor image handling, when will there be a VPWIN without the
disguised GEM engine?

Regards

Greg


Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

 > On the topic of old habits, it's a shame the ol' CTRL X combination can't
 > cancel a dialogue box in VPWIN. I always thought this was a great function
 > being able to pop up/down the last dialogue box so easily, it made settings
 > checks a doddle when hopping from tag to tag during style designs.

You are aware, aren't you, that the ESCape key will exit (almost) any dialog
box? This is generally true for Windows, and, for the most part, holds true
for Ventura, as well. Not much relearning there--still uses only the left
hand.

Not familiar with the term "doddle." Is that a coloquialism on the east side
of the "pond," or was that a typo?

 > I did report spellchecker find/replace nonsense to VENTURA UK earlier in
the
 > year which was acknowledged, (inserting 24 or so consecutive repeats of the
 > replacement text). Will this be fixed in 4.2?  Also what about the poor
image
 > handling, when will there be a VPWIN without the disguised GEM engine?

I'm not familiar with the spellchecker problem. However, you should be
apprised that I am only a volunteer on this forum and am not privy to
engineering, design, and/or marketing decisions of Corel Systems, and thus,
can neither tell you whether that problem is fixed in 4.2 (without testing it
that is, for which I would need a problem report complete with script--not to
mention getting the final release of the program myself, and installing it),
nor can I speak with any certainty about the overhaul of the GEM publishing
engine, though that is supposedly slated for the 5.0 version.

Just now realized what a long sentence that last one was. Whew!

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993 10:30p]


Date: 1993-12-02,19:04
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Frame Runaround

My old school told me never to volunteer for anything! I think it was
because the teachers were ex-army or something.

The term "doddle" is indeed a colloquialism  - dictionary ref -
"something easily accomplished" we have really big ones here full of
extremely handy words like "dodecahedron", "massasauga" and
"antidisestablishmentarianism" . Really handy if you are stuck in a
foreign airport where they speak little English!

These books are extremely useful for levelling wobbly tables and
propping open doors in a draught.

I got an insider whiff of some proposed changes from a Ventura UK
person before the Corel takeover so I guess I'll just have to wait and
see!

Thanks for your help - have fun and don't stay up too late like I do,
it's bad for your marriage.

Reg

Greg


Date: 1993-12-03,10:56
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

Band propping open doors in a draught.>

in a what?<g>

%% Mac Townsend Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, Calif


Date: 1993-12-06,15:25
From: greg hogan 100117,2352
To: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
Subject: Frame Runaround

Hi Mac,

That was a reference a large tome being suitable for wedging open a
door in a strong wind or draught as it's known on this side of the
pond.

Regards

Greg


Date: 1993-12-07,10:38
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: greg hogan 100117,2352
Subject: Frame Runaround

<strong wind or draught >

Oh. I thought <hopeful look> you were speaking of a good quality
draught such as, perhaps, Bateman's. <g>

X:-] Mac Townsend, Adcom Graphics Fairfield, Calif 6:11a 07-Dec-93

Date: 1993-11-30,20:56
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

I downloaded the VPCC.EXE program and it doen't show the KEYSTROK font,
so where do I do now.

I want to use a keystrok font that Ventura provides, that was one of my
major reasons for upgraading.  I expected Corel to at least support
their own fonts.

An your reqeusting the download of your utilities is a little to self
serving since you don't even recognize the font.




Date: 1993-11-30,23:28
From: Sue Blumenberg 71601,2776
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard,

I think you just lost all the rest of us with that last remark. David
Satz is one of the least self-serving people I have ever met, on or off
this forum. I don't expect you to know that, or neccesarily to care,
but you certainly should be able to see that he's trying to help you
here.

VPCC is the easiest way to see if the characters you need are
accessible in Ventura, and the easiest way to access them if they are.
If VPCC doesn't see the font, that's because Ventura doesn't either,
which is what I thought you were trying to find out.

Date: 1993-12-01,00:44
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

I can't get the version of VPCC.EXE that I have to change font either. Not
sure how that's supposed to be done, but be that as it may...

>> An your reqeusting the download of your utilities is a little to self
   serving since you don't even recognize the font. <<

You are coming dangerously close to getting "flamed" by nearly everyone who
visits this forum when you demean David Satz's FREE utilities--GET THAT????
FREE??? I'd like to know just how you figure that your obtaining one of his
FREE (that is, as in, $0.00) qualifies as self-serving.

Secondly, David has written at least a dozen utilities for Ventura users that
have helped to overcome deficiencies and bugs in current and past versions.
These utilities, though copyrighted, have all been freeware--no associated
costs, and have saved thousands of users time and headache.

Furthermore, just because YOU don't understand how a program works does not
mean the PROGRAM is useless.

     BARN [Tue 30-NOV-1993 10:12p]


Date: 1993-12-01,11:28
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

<ose to getting "flamed" by nearly everyone who visits this forum when
you de>

Barn, Looks almost like a proper application for the twit filter. <s>

%% Mac Townsend Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, Calif

Date: 1993-12-01,08:25
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard,

It's serious enough that you are not happy with the results you're
getting, and I certainly think you have a right to expect that the
fonts on the Corel Ventura disc will work well with Corel Ventura
Publisher.  However, this cannot be completely guaranteed in the case
of fonts with special character mappings (assignments), which a
keystroke font logically has to be.

I'd like to help you if I can, and thus far I'm not taking your remarks
personally.  But I would still ask you to dispense with unnecessary
personal remarks.  They're a diversion at best.  If you have a serious
accusation to make, I'm sure you can make it directly.

It probably is self-serving when I recommend one of my own utilities,
in the sense that I enjoy seeing them used.  But they are all $free.
And I wrote VPCC because there wasn't anything else around that did
what it does.  If I knew of another program available that did the same
thing, I would not have written VPCC; instead I would have recommended
the other program.

What I need to do is install the font myself and locate the characters
you're looking for, then tell you how to access them if indeed it can
be done.  I have a huge typesetting job that has to get to the
printers' tomorrow morning, and I have a dentist's appointment, so I
can't do this until tomorrow.  If anyone else can work this out for you
today, I'd ask them to do so--I don't have to be the one who solves
this problem.



Date: 1993-12-01,10:14
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

I do need to apologize,  I sent the message off after having one of the
most frustrating days I've had in a long time.  Basically nothing
worked right and things that should have taken 5 minutes took hours.

I guess I took it all out on you and I am sorry.

Do you know of any good looking keystroke fonts that will work well
with Windows.  That was one of the main reasons I invested in the
upgrade to VP 4.2 was to get access to the Keystroke font for a large
manual I need to produce.  No I need to go to plan B, I guess.

Again, I'm sorry, you were "just in the wrong place at the wrong time".


Date: 1993-12-01,13:10
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard, I've looked at the KEYSTROKE font supplied by Corel in CD4. It
does not map properly to the Ventura Character set. (To see this, use
the CHARSET.CHP that comes with [C]VP. You might have to create a new
tag just for the "Char Set 1" column in the table.)

Others on the forum have mentioned 3rd party programs that allow you to
remap character sets in existing typefaces. Check for those messages. I
tried doing some remap-hacking of KEYSTROKE with Corel and it's ug--LY!
I did relocate some characters but the baseline is way off. The Corel
procedure is intended as output-only for graphics to characters and
does include baseline considerations. It's far too labor-intensive
going the other way. With some BARN-type macro-ization a reasonably
simple remapping procedure might be developed but I haven't the time or
the need to do it.

As for your frustration and the intemperate remarks--we all have done
it at times.

Date: 1993-12-01,15:35
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard,

No offense taken.  And I regreat that, as it appears, the
Corel-supplied keystroke font does not work well with the
Corel-supplied Ventura Publisher program.

Unfortunately there is no practical way to modify the program's
behavior in this regard; you are better off finding a different font,
or modifying the font, as I see you are now trying to do.

I have one remaining idea for a workaround; to save time, I'll pass it
along to Cleve Garvin and ask him if he can try it, since I still can't
get to this until tomorrow.

--regards

Date: 1993-12-01,22:01
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

You might consider thaking a look at this here in library 10:


 KEYCPS.ZIP/Bin  Bytes:  53402, Count:  232, 15-Nov-91

  Title   : Keycaps font by Rick Altman
  Keywords: KEYCAPS KEYS CDR PFM PFB AFM WFN KEYCAP

  This is the Key-caps font created and converted in Corel Draw by Rick
  Altman for the VPUG Conference 1991. It includes the original .CDR
files as
  well as AFM, PFM, PFB, WFN, WID, and VFM files so it can by used with
any
  edition of Ventura Publisher.
     Uploaded with permission.

Date: 1993-12-02,14:17
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard

Keystroke fonts. Both of these fonts are good to excellent, but at the
risk of sounding self serving <ggg>, I should warn you that both of
these people are friends.

1. Elizabeth Swoope Johnston, a computer instructor at a Lousiana
university, has a keycap font set that works with VP. Liz can be
reached on CIS via 76436,2426. She developed these fonts for use in her
own computer documentation, and then started to sell them. They've been
reviewed in PCMag and others, always well. Liz' fonts are about $80 as
I recall, and TT, PS, and PCL versions are available. Very good
quality, but they don't (currently) work with ATM 2.6. This should be
solved w/in the next couple of weeks as I understand it.

2. David Vereschagin is a graphic designer that collaborates with me in
my own publishing work. His CIS# is 75645,1752. In addition to his
graphic design work, his passion is developing fonts (he has several
for sale). A few months ago we took on a software manual for the Cdn
defense dept. and David designed a keycap specifically for that job.
I'd rate it *somewhat higher in quality than Liz' (which is *not saying
Liz' is not good, quite the contrary). The keycap will contain (it's
still under construction) both a 3-D effect keycap and a normal (non
3-D) keycap. Plus David has tossed in a range of bullets and special
characters. He hasn't really set a cost, but his price will be
competitive with Liz'. TT and PS fonts exist (we're doing the manual in
TT fonts right now).

If you need fonts today, now, instantly, then Liz is your best bet. If
you can wait for 3-4 weeks, and maybe want to have some input into what
characters should be added to a keycap font, then David would be a good
bet. BTW, David has the non 3-D done--we're using it. It's the 3-D
that's still under construction.

The Corel keycap fonts stink, IMHO. Don't fret that you can't see
them--it's better that way <g>.

Charlie


Date: 1993-12-02,15:22
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Is there any chance you could fax me a sample of each showing the
complete "character" set.

I would suggest 18 or 20PT size so it would fax cleanly even though I'd
probably do everything at 12 pt.

As to the way the Corel Keystroke looks, I kind of like it, it's a
clean and simple looking 3D font.  What more could you ask for?  I
don't like the fonts that try to show the gray keys as grey, I look for
readability.

Thanks in advance


Date: 1993-12-03,07:49
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard, I can't fax you samples because you didn't give me your fax
number <g>.

Regardless, I suggest you contact each directly through CIS. I've
forwarded your ID to David already and I'll do so to Liz.

Neither will pester you--it's not their way. They'll give you what you
want and they'll go away until you decide on your next step.

Both people's fonts are not of the splashy variety. Both sets of fonts
are meant to be used at text sizes. Both use blank white keycaps with
black lettering. David's 3-D ones simply put a black outline on the
right and bottom edges of each key. These (3D) are good for 10 pt on a
600dpi printer. Both non 3D's are good for as low as 8pt on a 600dpi
printer.


Date: 1993-12-03,14:52
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

>    Richard, I can't fax you samples because you didn't give me your
fax >    number <g>.

Silly me,  My fax number is 603-883-9704,  I haven't heard from David,
so could you forward this his direction?

Thanks in advance.


Date: 1993-12-03,15:40
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard, David's been up to his eyebrows for the last few in getting
some work out for me. He should get to you tonight or over the weekend.
In the meantime, I'll drop him a message and bug him (he's in Toronto,
I'm in Ottawa, and we're one of the new virtual companies compliments
of CIS).

I'll forward your fax number to him.

I take from your message that you've already heard from Liz?

Cheers!

Date: 1993-12-01,23:22
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard--

1)  Be sure that the Keystroke font is properly installed in Windows,
and also that you have built a width table that contains that font.

    a) Can you access the font in any other application?

    b) Does it show up in your Ventura font list?

    c) VPCC has a radio button check-off to display "symbol" fonts as
       instead of text fonts.  You might experiment with that as well.

    d) Remember that VPCC just lets you select the character you wish
and
       insert it in your text.  *YOU* have to assign the proper font to
       that character once it's in the text stream.

2)  As several others have noted, David Satz's utilities have, without
fail, been simple, effective, and free.  They have saved countless
users countless hours and countless headaches.  Combined with the time
David takes, every single day, to help visitors to this forum--always
with good humor, thorough and well-founded knowledge and experience,
and patience beyond all reckoning--I think you'd best be a little more
cautious before calling anything David has done or said "self-serving."

In my experience, I have seldom met a more self-less person, in terms
of his contributions to this forum, to Ventura users, and to Ventura
itself.

Regards,

--Dave Makulec

Date: 1993-12-01,06:46
From: kathleen sinnott 72370,47
To: all
Subject: Reset Counter Not Right

Help!!!

I've got chapter and page numbers in a header but when I try to set the
restart or +1 for the chapter number, the change affects *all* pages --
not from the change point forward. How do I fix this?

Kathleen


Date: 1993-12-01,11:02
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: kathleen sinnott 72370,47
Subject: Reset Counter Not Right

You can specify a chapter number, using the internal chapter counter, only
once per chapter. Any changes to that number affect the whole chapter. The
only way to accomplish what you're trying to do is to either use
Auto-Numbering to indicate the chapter number, or split the document into
multiple chapters.

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993  8:42a]

Date: 1993-12-01,11:36
From: William Earl 70314,1665
To: All
Subject: Variables in footers

Is there any method of inserting a Variable reference in a Header or
Footer?  I want to place a Customer's name in the footer of some
Documentation that I'm writing (spans 15 chapters or so....) and I'd
prefer not to have to change the footer in every chapter each time I
print for a new customer.  TIA for you help!


Date: 1993-12-01,13:14
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: William Earl 70314,1665
Subject: Variables in footers

I don't remember if this works or not, but you might try putting the variable
in the text file that's in the underlying page. Have it get inserted into a
paragraph with a special paragraph tag that has paragraph attributes applied
that make it invisible (i.e., white and out in the margin somewhere). Then
use the tag match function in the footer to bring text of any paragraph with
that special tag applied into the footer.

     @FOOTERREF = <customer name>        <==== I also don't remember the
                                               necessary syntax

In the footer, use the FOOTRREF tag match.

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993 11:06a]


Date: 1993-12-06,08:07
From: William Earl 70314,1665
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Variables in footers

Thanks, Byron.  Not sure I understand it all, but will let you know if
I need further assistance.

Date: 1993-12-04,15:22
From: John Murdoch 71507,1212
To: William Earl 70314,1665
Subject: Variables in footers

Hi William!

Use a repeating frame, rather than a footer. Then use the Insert
Special Character option (from the Text menu) and insert a variable.
Define the variable in your chapter with the customer's name. When you
re-number the chapter the customer's name will appear in the footer.

JM



Date: 1993-12-06,08:07
From: William Earl 70314,1665
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: Variables in footers

Thanks, John.  Will give it a try!

Date: 1993-12-01,18:56
From: Christof Barth 100273,402
To: ALL
Subject: Bad output from EPS-File

Hi there!

I have a problem, but I don't know yet wether to attribute to
postscript, drivers or printers or programs:

I created a landscape table with grey shades in cells using MS Excel
4.0 and exported it to .EPS via the 3.56 WinPSDriver. Then I import
that EPS in Ventura Publisher (4.1.1) and print the page. All works
fine, but ...

 1. Direct output from Excel to Postscript is fine.

 2. Output of the EPS-File via copy /b to the printer looks also fine.

 3. Printing the a page containing that EPS via Ventura shows thin
white
 gridlines across the shading. The gridlines let it look like the
shading
 consisting of micro tiles. The lines are independent of the intensity
of the
 shading. Output was at 600dpi (HP4M), although I have encountered it
also on
 300dpi printers.

Is this a bug of ventura, of the driver or of postscript? Does anyone
of you know a workaround?



Thanks!


 Christof Barth                   02-Dec-93


Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Christof Barth 100273,402
Subject: Bad output from EPS-File

My guess is that Excel is creating the shading as a bitmapped pattern, rather
than a PostScript fill. In that case, you would have to be quite meticuluous
about the way you size the frame containing the EPS file.

If you'd care to try it, check the bounding box values, near the top of the
Excel-generated EPS file, by brining it up in some ASCII viewer or editor.
You should see four values following the label "%%BoundingBox". The left two
values represent the X and Y coordinates of the lower left corner of the EPS
file. The 3rd and 4th values represent the X and Y coordinates of the
opposite corner, the upper right.

By subtracting the larger X value from the smaller X value, you can determine
the "real" width of the EPS file, in points (72nds of an inch). Do the same
for the Y coordinates. Dividing the resulting values, Width and Height, by 72
will yield the width and height in inches.

If a frame of the above width and height is too small for your page, multiply
those values by a whole integer and make your frame that size.

Then, ALSO, change the Picture Scaling to By Scale Factors. AND change the
Aspect Ratio to Distorted. Then, change the Pict. Width and Pict. Height
values to match the Frame Width and Frame Height. The reason to do this is
that, sometimes, Ventura does not make proper sizing decisions, or
incorrectly reads the sizing information from the imported file's header
(happens with TIFs, too).

Then try printing and see if the white gridwork doesn't disappear.

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993 10:39p]


Date: 1993-12-02,19:03
From: Christof Barth 100273,402
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Bad output from EPS-File

 >> My guess is that Excel is creating the shading as a bitmapped
pattern,
 >> rather than a PostScript fill.

Hey that may be the cause (haven't tried yet, will do tomorrow),
thanks! I indeed fiddeled a landscape page (full page without borders)
into a portrait page by switching the last two bounding box values and
adding a -90 rotate command in the EPS file. I just let Ventura make
the sizing. I will try to get the frame and Excel output together in
the same aspect ratio, that should fit then, shouldn't it?

Thanks again!

 Christof Barth                   03-Dec-93


Date: 1993-12-03,13:57
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Christof Barth 100273,402
Subject: Bad output from EPS-File

>> I will try to get the frame and Excel output together in the same aspect
   ratio, that should fit then, shouldn't it? <<

It will FIT, yes. But my understanding was that you were objecting not to the
fit, but to the banding in the background. For that you will need to size the
frame to the ACTUAL size of the Bounding Box, or a whole integer multiplier
thereof, not just maintaining the Aspect Ratio.


     BARN [Fri 03-DEC-1993 10:31a]

Date: 1993-12-01,21:01
From: Paul Schrank 74666,256
To: All
Subject: Loading WordPerfect 6.0

I cannot load WP 6.0 for Windows files into Ventura.  I have to save as
WP 5.1/5.2 and then load.  So far, OK, except that it's a lot of
bother.  When I try to retrieve the 5.1/5.2 document into WP (after it
has been loaded into Ventura), I get a screen full of odd characters.
Does anyone know if either WP or Corel Ventura is doing anything about
this?


Date: 1993-12-01,22:29
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Paul Schrank 74666,256
Subject: Loading WordPerfect 6.0

There isn't a WP 6.0 filter in CVP. At this point we don't expect
anyone to do anything about this until the next full release and
re-write of CVP expected in the first half of next year.

Karl

Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Paul Schrank 74666,256
Subject: Loading WordPerfect 6.0

Paul,

As Karl pointed out, there would need to be a loadable filter (*.WLD
file) for WordPerfect 6.0--and there isn't one in Corel Ventura.  I've
spoken with several people at Corel about getting one written; I think
it may be being considered, but I am not really certain.  That is as
much as I can say at the moment (because that is all that I know).

Date: 1993-12-03,02:49
From: Alan Rodgers 72347,2465
To: Paul Schrank 74666,256
Subject: Loading WordPerfect 6.0

       That's happened to me, too -- you need to write a macro to read
your default styles out of Standard.WPT and into the document. The
macro should also reset your default font to whatever you prefer to
edit in. (You might want to convert <T> to tabs and hash marks to curly
quotes while you're at it, too.)

Private: No
Receipt: No
ExHeader: YES
Date: 1993-12-01,21:52
From: James A. Rome 70673,3725
To: Karl Anthony
Subject: Width table changes

Karl:
        I am having another problem which is more serious. When I
change the width table from, say environ,wid to postscr.wid, save the
chapter, and then copy the chapter to a floppy, VP 4.2 (4.11 also)
still copies environ.wid to the floppy instead of the correct width
table. In general, I can never be sure what width table will apply to
any given file at any time. Old chapters keep coming up with the wrong
width tables.
1) Where is the information about the width  table stored?
2) What makes the width table stick?

Also, when I do change the width table, sometimes, I cannot save the
chapter, or even exit from VP. If I try to exit, I get the save
message, enter "yes", and nothing happens - I am back to the unsaved
chapter. Both Ctrl-s and the file menu fail to do a save. The only way
out is to use "save as" which leaves many versions of the same chapter
scattered about.

Jim Rome


Date: 1993-12-01,22:29
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: Width table changes

The name of the width table to use is stored in the style sheet.

To make the width table "stick" you either need to change some function
of the style sheet other than just what width table to use, in which
case you will be prompted to save, or you need to explicitly save the
style sheet as its previous name. Simply changing width table doesn't
flag the style sheet as "dirty." You can call this a bug if you like.

When you change width tables, CVP might take a few moments to
re-synchronize fonts. Until that happens you won't be able to save the
chapter or exit however once the width table change is acknowledged you
should be able to save the chapter (^S) and/or exit. Remember that
saving the chapter won't necessarily re-save the style sheet unless
something other than just the width table is changed.

Karl


Date: 1993-12-02,18:20
From: James A. Rome 70673,3725
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: Width table changes

I hope this is fixed in the next version. One would think that when the
change width menu disappears, that CVP is ready to go ahead. At least I
know what to do now.

Thanks,
Jim

Date: 1993-12-02,00:53
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: James A. Rome 70673,3725
Subject: Width table changes

I see Karl pretty much handled the questions, however, regarding:

 >> The only way out is to use "save as" which leaves many versions of the
    same chapter scattered about. <<

Doing a SaveAs of a chapter will not create any new versions if you use the
same location and chapter name as before (just pick it off the list without
changing directories). True, Ventura will (somewhat alarmingly) ask you to
confirm that you want to overwrite the chapter, and though the default is
sometimes somewhat annoyingly set on New Name, there is good reason--prevents
the ranting and raving that would occur if it was any easier to accidently
overwrite conceivably days', weeks', months', even years' worth of work.

     BARN [Wed 01-DEC-1993 10:47p]

Date: 1993-12-02,05:16
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: PCX files

Barn, Is it possible to import 256 greyscale PCX files generated in
CorelPaint into Ventura?

I am also having problems with the print quality of 256 greyscale TIFF
images in PCL mode on the HP4P.  Postscript mode seems OK.
Printquality from the other Corel programs is much better in PCL mode
that in Ventura. Is this a known problem or am I doing something wrong?

Importing the TIFF images is no problem, when I follow your
suggestions.

Are there additional import filters available for VP4.2?

Are there any special files here on Compuserve that you would
reccommend me to download for VP4.2?

Bjorn



Date: 1993-12-02,10:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

>> Barn, Is it possible to import 256 greyscale PCX files generated in
   CorelPaint into Ventura? <<

Theoretically possible, but, if memory serves me correctly, 256 greyscale PCX
files are perceived by Ventura as 24-bit, rather than 8-bit, which consumes
considerable overhead to load. It would be better all around to use
256-grayscale TIF files, instead.

As far as the PCL/grayscale/HP4P question, I'm afraid my knowledge there is
so limited as to be of virtually no use whatsoever--I've only worked with
PostScript printers. Perhaps another who has more experience in this area
will see your query and this reply, and respond accordingly.

     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993  8:29a]

Date: 1993-12-04,15:22
From: John Murdoch 71507,1212
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

Hi Bjorn!

You might check the Microsoft Download Area to see if there is a more
recent PCL driver for your printer. GO MSL-1. (I think there is a newer
version than the one shipped with Windows 3.1.)

JM



Date: 1993-12-04,18:32
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: PCX files

Hi John, I have downloaded the latest drivers from HP directly.  I
monitor their BBS in this country and their forum here on CIS.  The
files print great in CorelDraw, Corel Paint, Word for windows and just
about every other program I have tried.  I beleive there is a problem
in getting VP to import pictures in 256 greys.  I have not been able to
import more than 16 greys in PCX format.  In TIFF it says 256 greys,
but the screen seems odd.

In the manual it says that the max number of colors is 253 - an odd
number if ever there was one.  It may be that my TIFF images are
"downgreyed" to 32 greys??

I have no program that can export in VP's native graphic format so I
have problems in testing this.  It seems most people use ready
formatted pictures in a PS ready format.


Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

At present I am considering working with dithered images.

Bjorn




Date: 1993-12-05,18:22
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

Nevermind how the 256 grayscale TIFs appear on screen; how do they print?

     BARN [Sun 05-DEC-1993  3:53p]


Date: 1993-12-06,13:55
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: PCX files

Barn, With PCL very badly. With PS and 120 lines, more or less OK.

Will run some more tests, and return to you.

Was wondering if there were any known problems.  If not it must be my
setup, and I will spend time customizing that.  This has not been
neccesary for any of the Draw group products.  There everything
displays and prints OK on first try.

Bjorn




Date: 1993-12-06,17:59
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

120 l.p.i screens for grayscale, on a 600 d.p.i. printer, are only going to
be just that--more or less OK. The maximum number of grays you can achieve
with that combination is 24 (plus white and solid black), the equivalent,
incidentally, of 60 l.p.i. on a 300 d.p.i printer. Generally this is
considered to be 25 grays (a five by five matrix of dots--divide 600 by 120).
You will see better results with 106 l.p.i. screens, in terms of the gray
levels, and better still at 85 l.p.i.

     BARN [Mon 06-DEC-1993  3:13p]


Date: 1993-12-07,08:14
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: PCX files

Barn, You are right.  Looking through all the printouts again, I see
that I made a mistake.  The 85 lines is acceptable.  The 120 lines is
not.

I have three questions I would like you to forward to the right people
if you don't have a ready answer:

1.  Does VP use the Windows printer drivers, or does it use its own?
If it uses its own, where can I find updates if any?

2.  Does VP use the Windows screen drivers or does it use its own?

3.  Does there excist a "technical" manual for VP that is intended for
systems administrators etc.?  A manual that will answer all the odd
technical questions.


Bjorn





Date: 1993-12-07,10:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

Bjorn,

Ventura Publisher (Windows edition) uses standard Windows screen and
printer drivers.  It would be contrary to the idea and spirit of
Windows for an application to require special device drivers of its
own.

However, it must be said also that Ventura Publisher is unusually
sensitive to the choice of screen and printer drivers--and some device
vendors who have historically offered defective drivers (e.g. ATI and
LaserMaster) have found that Ventura Publisher would not run well with
their products.

There is not currently any special technical publication for Ventura
Publisher systems administrators, though in my opinion that is a _very_
good suggestion.



Date: 1993-12-07,13:36
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: PCX files

David, I am currently using a Diamond Stealth Pro with 2Mb memory, and
the latest drivers. Speed in all other programs is blazing.  But in VP
it is very, very slow.  It takes minutes for the graphics to build,
even if you are just moving them round on the page.

The printer drivers are standard HP, latest model.  And standard MS
Postscript 3.58.  I have some 4-5 generations of these printer drivers
and will try some of the different ones.  The MS postscript 3.58 / 3.57
don't seem to give good results on my system.  I will go back at least
three generations and see.  It gets frustrating testing these things as
a single printout takes some 90 minutes + in PS, and this is just part
of a page.



<<However, it must be said also that Ventura Publisher is unusually
<<sensitive to the choice of screen and printer drivers--and some
device <<vendors who have historically offered defective drivers (e.g.
ATI and <<LaserMaster) have found that Ventura Publisher would not run
well with <<their products.

Diamond and Microsoft unfortunately belongs in the same group.  This is
unforgivable in a company delivering the operating system.


The technical manual used to be standard for all programs some four to
five years ago.  They sort of disappeared with Windows 3.1.  At that
time Windows was thought to take care of everything and solve all
problems.  Problems that still occured were beleived to be to
complicated for the average user. A major rethink of this policy should
save much time for the tech. support people.


Best regards

Bjorn



Date: 1993-12-07,15:11
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

With what kind of graphics files are you experiencing such slow video
performance?  I assume they are color or grayscale bitmaps, since as
far as I know, the performance with vector graphics ("line art") and
monochrome bitmaps is generally good.

Grayscale bitmaps are also handled fairly well in uncompressed TIFF
format, though this varies with the size of the file.  And grayscale
PCX files are handled so poorly that you would be _much_ better off if
you converted them to TIFFs before loading them into Ventura.

In general, if you are scanning images, it is worthwhile to calculate
the resolution and grayscale or color depth that you actually need for
your planned mode of production, rather than to scan at the maximum
resolution and color depth at all times.  Much of the time when
painting the screen is wasted in processing and reprocessing the data
in the image file, if it is a needlessly large file.



Date: 1993-12-07,17:03
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: PCX files

David, Uncompress TIFF images seem to be the only thing I can import to
VP with any success.  I have been using a 2.6Mb test picture in 256
greys.  I have been trying to compare load, refresh and update times
between VP, W4W, CorelPaint and CoreDraw.  If you move the piture
around in CorelDraw the screen update is almost intantaneouse.  In VP
the screen slowly redraws from the bottom, even if you just move the
picture to a different place on the page.  This seem uneccesary.

Currently I have a problem displaying anything but dithered images in
VP.

I will try to systemize the findings and see if I can present my
problems better.  It could very well be problems with the video drivers
and VP.

Bjorn



Date: 1993-12-07,17:35
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

Bjorn,

What you describe is symptomatic of very large image files.  I agree
that Ventura's handling of them is highly inefficient--it was designed
in a time when memory was much more expensive and restricted, and when
386 Enhanced mode was not yet the norm for Windows operation.  As a
result it buffers only a limited amount of image data in memory at any
one time, and does not (as far as I am aware) expand that buffer even
when many megabytes would be available.  This forces the program to
process the file data again and again, which is of course slow.

There is no need for you to gather additional data on the problem,
really; as long as you are using image files of that size, you will
have slow performance in any existing Windows version of Ventura
Publisher and there is really nothing that can be done about it until
the "next generation product" comes out, except perhaps to reduce your
scanning resolution so that you get files that are less huge.



Date: 1993-12-08,00:44
From: Bjorn 100276,1517
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: PCX files

David, Thank you very much for the information.  I bought VP because it
seemed the most sensible program for my use.  It still does, and as I
told Barn, at present I'm trying to learn the program and find which
limitations I have to live with, and how to work around the
limitations.

I would like to thank you both for your help and patience.

Bet Regards Bjorn



Date: 1993-12-08,07:04
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Bjorn 100276,1517
Subject: PCX files

You're very welcome.

Date: 1993-12-02,06:31
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Richard (and Dave Makulec),

After some testing the Keystroke font with Fontographer and VPCC, I
believe that I can say that it is defective, or at least very odd, in
some way. Using VPCC, all of the unassigned places in the upper ASCII
range appear as F5.  Using VPCC to insert them or the other glyphs
(Enter, PrintScreen, etc.) usually results in a wrong glyph being
inserted or something that can't be read on screen.

Using Fontographer, although everything looks okay on screen and in a
printout made with Fontographer, once I export to the font to a new
name, in the hopes of cleaning things up, all the upper ASCII mappings
are lost but two.

In FontMinder, using the original Keystroke font, printing out the full
character set chart results in a result similar to exporting that in
Fontographer, the upper ASCII characters don't print.

There is something definitely wrong with the font.

Cleve


Date: 1993-12-03,02:28
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: Ventura fonts not workng

Sorry to have to disagree, but I don't think Keystroke is defective at
all.

On my system, it works just fine with any software that uses the
standard Windows 3.1 ANSI character set. Unfortunately, this does not
include VP.

 -jrh

Date: 1993-12-02,08:32
From: Stephen J. 73633,1063
To: Sysop
Subject: A couple of bugs

I'm new to CompuServe and I'm having a little trouble finding my way
around, so please excuse any rookie inefficiency.  I'd like this to
find its way to the appropriate tech support people.

I've discovered a couple of fairly serious bugs in VP Windows 4.1.1.1:

1) If I create a null cross-reference (for example, <$R[P#,]>, my
system gets totally hung when I renumber the publication.  Only a cold
boot gets me out of the mess.  It took me a long time to figure out
what was causing this problem.  Nor is it terribly unlikely for this to
happen, at least the way I work.  I use Word for Windows macros to
create the references, so all I have to do is neglect to fill in a
marker name in order to get into trouble.

2) I have discovered that if I create a variable definition which ends
up as the first non-tag entry on a page, and then use a page-number
cross-reference to that variable definition, the resulting refers to
the preceding page.  For example, suppose the following heading (shown
in its WP source form) appears at the top of page 15 in my VP chapter:

    @HEADER1 = <$V[manage_ch]MANAGING THE EMS 900
SYSTEM><$R[V*,manage_ch]MANAGING THE EMS 900 SYSTEM>

If I create this reference:  <$R[P#,manage_ch], VP erroneously creates
a reference to page 14.  I have solved the problem for myself by moving
all of my variable definitions to the line following the heading to
which they apply (so that they will no longer be the item on the page),
but it took me a lot of time and hassle to figure out the problem, and
a fair amount to fix it for the book I thought I had finished.

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions, and I'd especially
appreciate having these bugs fixed.

Thanks,

     --Steve



Date: 1993-12-02,10:39
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Stephen J. 73633,1063
Subject: A couple of bugs

>> ...new to CompuServe and I'm having a little trouble... <<

No problem--if you need assistance, just let us know; that's why were here.
Just for your information, there is a practice forum (GO PRACTICE) where you
can get the feel of how CompuServe works, and any time that you spend in the
PRACTICE forum is free of CompuServe connect charges.

Regarding the null cross-reference, I haven't seen this one occur, but I
don't think I've ever created a null cross-reference without placeholders. I
would suggest that you alter your W4W macro to include a dummy filename AND
dummy trailing page number:

     <$R[P#,xxxxxxxx.xxx]0>

It should be no more of a problem to substitute the real filename that
entering it in the first place. You might even want to create a macro that
will find all occurences of the above null cross reference string, and as the
first step, highlight the first 8 "x"s so you can immediately overstrike the
filename. A second macro could move to the extension and highlight all of it,
as well.

Regarding the marker and reference to page number, this is a known problem
and occurs only under those specific circumstances--where the marker is the
first element on the page, and the paragraph in which it resides is untagged
(that is, Body Text). The only solution is, as you've discovered, to move it
further down the page. No telling whether this will be addressed in the 5.0
version due out next year, but I do not recall seeing it on the list of fixes
in the 4.2 version, available now.


     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993  8:39a]


Date: 1993-12-02,14:28
From: Stephen J. 73633,1063
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: A couple of bugs

OK Byron, thanks.  Your ideas for workarounds are good, but the
cross-reference bug is NASTY and should be fixed.  I hope someone will
check it out (to verify that it occurs in environments other than mine)
and fix it.

     --SJS

Date: 1993-12-02,14:48
From: Stephen J. 73633,1063
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: A couple of bugs

Byron, I just reread your reply.  The following statement is
inaccurate, at least on my system:

>> Regarding the marker and reference to page number, this is a known
problem and occurs only under those specific circumstances--where the
marker is the first element on the page, and the paragraph in which it
resides is untagged (that is, Body Text).  <<

In my pub, all instances of this problem occurred with the variable
definition residing in a tagged paragraph (specifically, a heading).

   --Steve


Date: 1993-12-02,17:57
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Stephen J. 73633,1063
Subject: A couple of bugs

Did the inaccurate page number also occur with the marker at the END of the
first paragraph or only when it was the first item in the paragraph (tagged
or not)?

     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993  3:18p]


Date: 1993-12-03,10:45
From: Stephen J. 73633,1063
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: A couple of bugs

I haven't tried it with the marker anywhere other than at the beginning
of a paragraph.  My fix was to move it from the beginning of the
heading paragraph to the beginning of the subsequent Body Text
paragraph.

It might be worth noting (again) that my experience has been with
references to variable definitions, not to simple markers.  I set up my
book with variable names for all headings, and produce the actual
heading text with references to the variables.  I do it this way
because it's the only way I've been able to figure out that enables me
to generate an automatic reference to both heading text and a page
number (for example, "See 'Configuring the System' on page 26").

I'll try placing the variable definition at the end of the paragraph
and see whether the problem persists, and I'll let you know.  I'll also
send you a copy of some of my actual source text, in case what I'm
describing isn't clear to you.

Date: 1993-12-03,14:53
From: Stephen J. 73633,1063
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: A couple of bugs

I tried out the cross-reference after moving the marker so that it is
still in the first paragraph on the page, but is not the first element
after the tag. This solved the problem; the page reference was
correctly generated.  An example, copied from my source files and the
resulting VP chapters, follows.

WP SOURCE FILE:

        (initial reference:)

The sections that follow provide fundamental information about these
components and how they relate to one another. For detailed
instructions on planning and implementing your EMS system
configuration, refer to "<$R[V*,config_sec]>," beginning on page
<$R[P#,config_sec]>.

        (text containing variable definition:)

@HEADER2 = <$V[config_sec]Configuring the EMS 900
System><$R[V*,config_sec]>
Configuration of the EMS 900 system has two phases:
@LIST EXPANDED = Definition phase-You define four levels of values and
operating characteristics: the system, cluster, rack and modem levels.
At the modem level, you actually define a configuration for an address,
not a specific modem.


OUTPUT OF VPWIN 4.1.1:

        (on page 6; the page reference "51" is off by one:)

The sections that follow provide fundamental information about these
components and how they relate to one another. For detailed
instructions on planning and implementing your EMS system
configuration, refer to Chapter 2, beginning on page 17, and to
"Configuring the EMS900 System," beginning on page 51.

        (at the top of page 52:)

Configuring the EMS 900 System

Configuration of the EMS 900 system has two phases:

Definition phase-You define four levels of values and operating
characteristics: the system, cluster, rack and modem levels. At the
modem level, you actually define a configuration for an address, not a
specific modem.


If the variable definition on page 52 is moved to the beginning of the
following paragraph, as shown below, or to the endo of the header
paragraph,  the page reference generated on page 6 is correct (it
refers to page 52, not 51):

        (revised text containing variable definition:)

@HEADER2 = <$R[V*,config_sec]>
 <$V[config_sec]Configuring the EMS 900 System>Configuration of the EMS
900 system has two phases:
@LIST EXPANDED =Definition phase-You define four levels of values and
operating characteristics: the system, cluster, rack and modem levels.
At the modem level, you actually define a configuration for an address,
not a specific modem.



Thanks for your interest. I hope this is useful.

Out of curiosity, are you a Corel/Ventura employee?  A CompuServe
employee?  And where are you located?

   --Steve


Date: 1993-12-03,16:26
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Stephen J. 73633,1063
Subject: A couple of bugs

>> Out of curiosity, are you a Corel/Ventura employee?  A CompuServe
   employee? And where are you located? <<

I am neither, just a volunteer sysop who has been using Ventura Publisher
since its first BETA incarnation (.98, if I recall correctly). I reside in
Seattle, and make appearances for speaking engagements around the country,
from time to time, at both Ventura conferences and CorelDRAW conferences, as
well as writing the occasional book and magazine article.

     BARN [Fri 03-DEC-1993  2:17p]

Date: 1993-12-02,12:23
From: John Papajani 76366,3641
To: All
Subject: .EPS file conversion

I am having trouble loading a chapter file (created in 4.1.1) into 4.2.
The chapter contains 8 frames with .EPS files of sample pages from
projects I have done in Ventura. I have had no trouble with the chapter
in 4.1.1 but now when I try to load it into 4.2 I get the message
"..picture file couldn't be converted...wasn't in proper format or
there wasn't enough disk/memory space...". I doubt if the problem is
memory (8MB) or disk (>15MB free), besides I can immediately, after
getting the error message, close 4.2, open 4.1.1 and load the chapter
with no problem.

JPJ



Date: 1993-12-02,13:29
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: .EPS file conversion

Did you change the Frame & Tag memory settings for 4.2 to the same values as
you use for 4.1.1?

     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993 11:23a]


Date: 1993-12-02,14:56
From: John Papajani 76366,3641
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: .EPS file conversion

BARN

Tried you via US West but you weren't around.

Yes I did up the memory settings to 512 each. The chapter still won't
load. Any other ideas?

JPJ



Date: 1993-12-02,17:57
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: .EPS file conversion

>> Tried you via US West but you weren't around. <<

I was here but I got no message on the machine. Are you sure you didn't
misdial?

>> Any other ideas? <<

Offhand, no, sorry to say. I'll think about it a bit.

     BARN [Thu 02-DEC-1993  3:19p]

Date: 1993-12-02,17:31
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: .EPS file conversion

Barn,

 >> Did you change the Frame & Tag memory settings for 4.2 to the same
 >> values as you use for 4.1.1?

Thanks, Barn.  I forgot again.  Age sucks!

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-02,14:35
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: .EPS file conversion

John,

If your EPS files do not have an image header, they may encounter a bug
that seems to be the first certified CVP 4.2 bug, and they will not
load correctly in that case.  What is the source of the graphics files,
and do they contain bitmap image headers for viewing?



Date: 1993-12-02,14:56
From: John Papajani 76366,3641
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: .EPS file conversion

David,

The files are EPS created from VP 4.11 using the EPS choice in the
print/setup/options dialog box. That being the case they do not have
any image header. I am honored to have been bitten by bug #1 before
ever hearing of it's existence.

Any work-arounds or is it back to 4.1.1 for existing chapters with EPS?



Date: 1993-12-02,22:11
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: .EPS file conversion

I don't know whether there is a workaround.  I heard this information
from a contact at Corel the other day, and what I told you is all I was
told.  I will ask for more information to be posted here.

Date: 1993-12-03,10:56
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: .EPS file conversion

No header, no load? ug! That's how I strip up some tiny pages to
present them to lino.

Perhaps Transverter Pro might work to provide a header, or (and this is
really reaching<g> suppose you brought the eps into CD and placed it on
top of a white filled no-border box that was properly sized; then
exported from CD as an eps "with header"...which of course would be
nothing but it would be a header and then maybe cvp could read the
file??? If CD wouldn't work, maybe some other app. Lousey extra-work
work around but it might get the job done.

Of course, you could do the job in 4.1.1(but that's not the
"Computer-Way" is it <g>

%% Mac Townsend Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, Calif


Date: 1993-12-03,13:57
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
Subject: .EPS file conversion

Problem is that Corel won't import EPS files generated by Ventura--only Adobe
Illustrator and CorelTRACE-generated EPS files.

     BARN [Fri 03-DEC-1993 11:08a]


Date: 1993-12-04,10:55
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: .EPS file conversion

I understood the problem to be that CVP 4.2  wouldn't import an eps
file that did not have a header, such as a page "printed" from itself
to an EPS file. If that were a problem it would create a few headaches
hereabouts.

I gather from your message, though, that I was backwards in my
assumption and that the reported problem was that CD wouldn't import an
eps w/o a header.

TNX

%% Mac Townsend Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, Calif

Date: 1993-12-02,18:52
From: michael ray 72702,1116
To: Sysop
Subject: Importing Word 6.0 files

I just converted to Word 6.0 from Word for Windows, but VP 4.1.1
doesn't seem to have an import filter for this format. Is there a fix
for this, or do I have to save everything in Word 2.0 format?

Thanks


Date: 1993-12-03,14:33
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: michael ray 72702,1116
Subject: Importing Word 6.0 files

This is a common request but as yet we have seen no mention from Corel
of new input filters for the current version. At this point saving in
the older format is your best option.

Karl

Date: 1993-12-03,10:36
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
Subject: XFONTS.TXT in Lib 10

Mac, in my reply yesterday, I told you I had uploaded XFONTS.TXT to Lib
12, Forum Business. I should have said I had uploaded it pending
acceptance by a Sysop and assignment to the appropriate library.

David Satz did accept it and he assigned it to Library 10, Fonts.

Date: 1993-12-03,14:30
From: Dave Michael 76424,3150
To: SYSOP
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

I just installed VP 4.2 and used the ScanJet IIc as my scanner
selection. I actually have the ScanJet Plus (which I didn't see as an
option).

Before I begin trying to use this for actually doing something I
thought I would ask about the proper driver setup:

What should I do to make sure the ScanJet Plus will actually work
properly?

I have the drivers that came with ScanGallery 5.0 and with Corel 4
(Twain driver there I think).

Any & all help appreciated.
DaveM


Date: 1993-12-03,15:46
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Dave Michael 76424,3150
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

Dave, I have a ScanJet Plus too. I suspect that you won't be able to
make anything work with the IIc driver. May I suggest that you head
over to the HP Forum and download a 2-part file that contains the
latest release of the HP DeskScan scanning software. This is a TWAIN
package, and is *miles above Scanning Gallery in terms of competence. I
scan out of Adobe Photoshop, Micrographx, Corel, and others through
DeskScan. Warning, even though the software is free, the download is
huge (about 2Mb as I recall).

If you're not familiar with the HP forum, GO HP gets you there. There
is a separate library set up for scanners. It's been a while since I've
been there, so I can't remember file names and library numbers. Oh, and
make sure you don't download the German version of DeskScan by mistake
(like I did, oops!).

Interesting, BTW, that there was no ScanJet Plus option in VP4.2. I
coulda sworn there was one in VP 4.1.x.

Charlie


Date: 1993-12-04,22:19
From: John Papajani 76366,3641
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

I also use a Scanjet Plus and have been unable to get any version of VP
to work with it using either the IIc or TWAIN installs. The TWAIN works
with all software that supports it except VP. BTW if you use WinFax Pro
to fax directly from your scanner you must reverse the image before
sending the fax or it will come out negative. WinFax says it is HP's
fault though it works fine with all other software. You figure who's
fault it is!

JPJ



Date: 1993-12-05,11:22
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: John Papajani 76366,3641
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

I've tried TWAIN and VP, and it doesn't work. During installation,
you're given the opportunity to use VP's interface, or TWAIN. Take
VP's. I've had video oriented problems with VP/Scan, but it seems to
work once I figured out that just because the button was greyed out it
didn't mean I couldn't use the button <g>.

As for WinFax Pro and Delrina. I live in Canada and I try to support
Cdn high tech companies, but Delrina is the biggest exception to this
rule. I've found their support superficial, canned, and generally
useless ("Try a, b, c. If it doesn't work, it must be your system. If
it still doesn't work, call us so that we can avoid you."). I've given
up completely on Delrina, and I use UltraFax. It works, it's got
virtually everything that WinFax Pro does for the single user, and I've
experienced only one or two very minor bugs (more inconveniences than
anything). I also personally found it less confusing to use.

Charlie

Date: 1993-12-06,07:15
From: Dave Michael 76424,3150
To: Charles Miller 70540,2350
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

Charlie,

Thanks for the tip on DeskScan. For VP 4.1.1 you had to edit the *.ini
files to read properly to get the ScanJet Plus, it was there but the
install program didn't do something properly.
DaveM

Date: 1993-12-03,23:47
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Dave Michael 76424,3150
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

When you install CVP 4.2 the Scanjet Plus is on the same line as the
IIP so you might not have noticed it. I doubt very much if the IIc
choice will work. For Scan to work you'll need to have previously
installed ScanGallery so that the drivers for the scanner are already
in the system.

You could probably re-install CVP with a custom selection and choose to
just re-install Scan or you can manually edit the second line of
d:\WINDOWS\SCAN.INI file to point to the right scanner listed later in
that file.

Karl


Date: 1993-12-06,07:19
From: Dave Michael 76424,3150
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

Karl,

I never noticed a ScanJet Plus as an option during setup. I do have
ScanGallery installed with the appropriate drivers. Maybe I'll try
editing the Scan.INI file first...lot simpler.

Any idea why some people are having trouble using TWAIN?

DaveM


Date: 1993-12-06,13:21
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Dave Michael 76424,3150
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

I just installed my new release copy of 4.2 yesterday so I made a point
of checking that the Scanjet Plus was indeed listed. If I recall the
line read,"HP IIP/Scanjet Plus" so it's certainly easy to miss.

People are having trouble using the TWAIN aspect of Scan because for
the most part it simply doesn't work. <G> When I was at VSI I argued it
would have been better to leave that "functionality" out rather than
ship something that didn't do what it was intended to do but obviously
I was "voted" down.

Karl


Date: 1993-12-07,06:49
From: Dave Michael 76424,3150
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

Yea, I missed it somehow. I just edited the Scan.INI file, that was the
quickest.

I noticed that CorelDraw installs the Twain driver for its set of
programs to use the ScanJet Plus. I haven't worked with it with this
new installation yet. Do you suppose the same problems that VP users
have mentioned would occur in Draw as well?

DaveM


Date: 1993-12-07,19:33
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Dave Michael 76424,3150
Subject: HP ScanJet Plus

Although I haven't used it I would guess the CorelDRAW TWAIN component
actually works. It's totally unrelated to the one in Ventura Scan as it
was simply re-produced as purchased from VSI.

Karl

Date: 1993-12-02,13:13
From: Eric R. Liszt 73021,2624
To: David Makulec 70524,716
Subject: David's utilities

Now that all is a bit calmer, could someone tell me what David's
utilities do?  They sound very interesting.  How can I get a hold of
them.

Thanks,
Eric


Date: 1993-12-02,14:35
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Eric R. Liszt 73021,2624
Subject: David's utilities

Eric,

This forum has a set of data libraries which contain many utilities for
Ventura users, and that's where I always put the latest version of my
stuff.  You can download a "catalog" of the data libraries here and see
what's in them; any member of the forum has full downloading
privileges.

I've got one more errand to run on this typesetting job (delivering a
diskette with all the raw text of the project so that it can be set
into braille).  When I get back, I'll send you a description of some of
my programs.

--regards

Date: 1993-12-03,06:56
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: Eric R. Liszt 73021,2624
Subject: David's utilities

Eric--

There are quite a few David Satz utilities, not all of which I use or
recall.

--SORTWD:  alphabetizes .WID tables

--ENVIRX:  detaches selected style sheets from ENVIRON.WID to a named
.WID table, to prevent interminable load times while ENVIRON.WID is
rebuilt

--FIXCHP:  if all components of a .CHP can be copied into a single
directory (using DOS functions, or whatever), FIXCHP will "repair" the
.CHP so that Ventura can open it from this new location--the pointers
to the component files are internally adjusted to point to the local
directory.

--VPCC, which we've been discussing.

These come immediately to mind.  The "good" news is that, as time has
passed, some specific problems with Ventura have been fixed, so that
David's "cures" or workarounds where no longer needed, and could be
"retired."

Regards,

--Dave Makulec

Date: 1993-12-03,22:45
From: Steve Samson 76054,1176
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: WPWin "Type 1" fonts

David, I think I've hit on the reason for the problems people have been
having with the "Type 1" fonts supplied with Word Perfect for Windows.
I was examining my new and old HASH.FID files to see if I could roll
over the 4.1.1 file instead of rebuilding the 4.2 version for all of my
inactive fonts.

In examining the definitions I noticed that all of the "-WP" fonts were
defined with a third term of 128 rather than the zero applying to
normal proportional fonts. Here are the entries I had:
        Bodoni-WP,42323,128
        Broadway-WP,44068,128
        BroadwayEngraved-WP,40489,128
        Century-WP,42536,128
        CommercialScript-WP,56155,128
        CooperBlack-WP,40580,128
        Eurostile-WP,38497,128
        Hobo-WP,52506,128
        MurrayHill-WP,41414,128
        OldEnglish-WP,37514,128
        OldTown-WP,45659,128
        Stencil-WP,54141,128

I assume that these are augmented fonts to handle the extensive WP
character set, but that CVP makes no use of the extensions. Would it be
appropriate to change the 128s to zeros in HASH.FID? Would the
discrepancy cause a problem the next time ENVIRON.WID was built?

If changing the 128 to 0 had no ill effects, I'd expect that the
mysterious shifting special characters problem would go away. What do
you think?


Date: 1993-12-04,00:03
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Steve Samson 76054,1176
Subject: WPWin "Type 1" fonts

A 128 would signify a symbol font as opposed to an ANSI font.  The
character mappings are indeed different, so it would be very important
to rebuild the width table after changing HASH.FID.  However, without
having installed any of these fonts myself, I can't be sure what the
net effect is going to be; I'd suggest caution (i.e. try one font and
see what happens).



Date: 1993-12-06,03:23
From: Alan Rodgers 72347,2465
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: WPWin "Type 1" fonts

       The PS versions of those fonts show up in my table as ,0 fonts.

Date: 1993-12-04,01:18
From: John Axline 73130,335
To: Ventura Sysop
Subject: out-of-memory bug

Well, there I was about to put a 20-page newsletter to bed when
suddenly VP 4.1.1 announces "Internal Memory Failure - cannot save ..."
and left me with 20 pages of scrambled mess a whole 8 hours before
deadline.

I realize it didn't happen on your shift, but I'd appreciate hearing
that you understand the problem and that it's fixed in 4.2.


Date: 1993-12-04,11:15
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: John Axline 73130,335
Subject: out-of-memory bug

I'm not sure that you'll be able to salvage what you were working on, but IF
you haven't subsequently loaded the messed up chapter, there may be, in the
same directory, several files matching your chapter name, but with the
extensions of $HP, $IF, $AP, $RM, $GR, and others matching the names of your
imported text files, but with a dollar sign substituted as the first letter
of the three-letter extension. If you copy these files:

    copy filename.$hp *.chp
    copy filename.$if *.cif
    copy filename.$ap *.cap
    copy filename.$rm *.frm
    copy filename.$gr *.vgr

and do the same with the text files, substituting the appropriate first
letter of the three-letter extension, you will at least have a version of the
chapter that was correct last time it WOULD save. This may mean you have to
do SOME work over, but at least, not the whole thing.

Some things to check. How much actual RAM do you have on your machine? If you
don't know, start Windows in Standard mode (win /s) and pull down the Help
menu in Program Manager. Click on the About button, and it will report actual
RAM. Running in Enhanced mode (the default with 386 and 486 machines) will
not report the correct value--you must do this in Standard mode.

Also, run Ventura, pull down the Help menu and select About. In the dialog
box are two numbers in text entry boxes for Frame & Tag Memory and Paragraph
& Text Memory. If you have 8 megs or more of actual RAM, change the values to
512 each. Then exit Ventura--you must exit and restart Ventura in order for
the new values to take effect.

If all this turns up nothing, what you might want to do is run the Microsoft
Diagnostic program (that comes with Windows and DOS 6.0):

     msd /p axline.msd

ZIP up the resulting AXLINE.MSD file and upload it to Library 13 in this
forum (uploads are free of CIS connect charges). This will provide us with a
considerable amount of information about your system configuration.

     BARN [Sat 04-DEC-1993  8:57a]


Date: 1993-12-04,12:18
From: John Axline 73130,335
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: out-of-memory bug

Thanks for the help on the out-of-memory problem. None of the .$xx
backups were recent enough to do any good, but the problem turned out
to be less severe than it looked - one page was missing, and every
caption was in the frame previous to where it belonged. The system has
16Mb, but with the resident stuff that loads before windows, there's
under 500kb of real-mode memory. I hope VP 4.1.1 is clever enough to
use extended memory for buffers.

I changed the settings in the About box - the error message gives false
hope that it'll fix the problem as it exists, and as you indicate they
only work 'next time' - so I'll be okay until another 'next time'. What
I was hoping was for Corel to say that the trap didn't exist in 4.2 -
it seems like a piece of seriously-dumb programming to leave your user
in a situation with his pub intact in program space somewhere but no
way to save it. As a programmer, I surely do things that dumb all too
often, but I'd sure have a V4.1.2 available a week after someone told
me about that one.

Date: 1993-12-04,15:23
From: John Murdoch 71507,1212
To: John Axline 73130,335
Subject: out-of-memory bug

Hi John!

Try increasing your memory settings in Help About--that would help.

As it happens, though, the VENTURA forum staff is "same as it ever
was". We're still the volunteer sysops from the VSI days (though Karl
Anthony, then a VSI employee, is with us as a volunteer). We're unique
among the vendor forums on CompuServe in that we're all volunteers.
Corel does have customer service people who visit, and they have a tech
support rep assigned to monitor the forum, but the forum management is
done by the volunteer sysops.

JM



Date: 1993-12-06,08:15
From: John Axline 73130,335
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: out-of-memory bug

I appreciate your volunteerism - your expert knowledge and instant
replies have helped me out more than once. Corel ought to be really
nice to you guys at Christmas, though - you serve as a buffer that
keeps them from having to reply to anything resembling a 'tough
question'. Let's put them on the spot - I asked Corel about a technical
problem several days ago, and wanted to know if the problem had been
fixed in 4.2. Corel?

Date: 1993-12-04,09:37
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: sysop
Subject: Crashing 4.1

I am still having problems with Ventura 4.1.  Beside the fact that it
crashes EVERYTIME that I exit it (VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at SDEV
1:2F44).  In addition, anytime I deal with a file of any size it seems
prety prone to crashing.  This has been consistent with the previous 2
versions of Ventura.  Note that I have no problems with FrameMaker,
Microsoft Word, and Wordperfect on the same machine.
-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com


Date: 1993-12-04,11:15
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

If you do not have it already, you should obtain the 4.1.1 update for 4.1. I
doubt that it is still available from Corel, but you can download it from
this forum. The filename is VPU411.ZIP. Put this file in an empty directory,
unzip it, and copy all but the ZIP file to a floppy disk. Then run the SETUP
program on the diskette from Windows. This file is nearly a megabyte, so it
will take a while to download. If you have a local Ventura user group, you
might see if you can obtain it (it's free and distributable) from one of the
members already on diskette.

Some other things to check. How much actual RAM do you have on your machine?
If you don't know, start Windows in Standard mode (win /s) and pull down the
Help menu in Program Manager. Click on the About button, and it will report
actual RAM. Running in Enhanced mode (the default with 386 and 486 machines)
will not report the correct value--you must do this in Standard mode.

Also, run Ventura, pull down the Help menu and select About. In the dialog
box are two numbers in text entry boxes for Frame & Tag Memory and Paragraph
& Text Memory. If you have 8 megs or more of actual RAM, change the values to
512 each. Then exit Ventura--you must exit and restart Ventura in order for
the new values to take effect.

If all this turns up nothing, what you might want to do is run the Microsoft
Diagnostic program (that comes with Windows and DOS 6.0):

     msd /p toebes.msd

ZIP up the resulting TOEBES.MSD file and upload it to Library 13 in this
forum (uploads are free of CIS connect charges). This will provide us with a
considerable amount of information about your system configuration.




     BARN [Sat 04-DEC-1993  9:03a]


Date: 1993-12-04,15:11
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Crashing 4.1

(See my response to David Satz for many of the answers).

I have 8Meg installed, Lantastic Network, 512 for both fields.  After
looking at the version information in the About requester for Ventura,
everything reports 4.1, so it is possible I don't have the 4.1.1
update.
Is there a difinitive test for this, I remember it being a bit of time
to
deal with.
-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com

Date: 1993-12-04,11:19
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Hi, John--nice to see you over here.

SDEV is the module name of a screen driver, isn't it?  What video card
are you using, and are you sure you have the latest and greatest
drivers for it?

Also, if you are running the U.S. version of 4.1, please consider
downloading VP411U.ZIP from LIB 4 here despite its awesome size--there
are several bug fixes in there that matter.

You said that there might be a correlation between the crashes and the
file size--have you fiddled with the buffer allocations in Ventura's
Help.About dialog?  Try doubling the defaults; it should help.



Date: 1993-12-04,15:11
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Hi Dave, yea I just couldn't keep up with the volume of 9 forums and
kind
of let this one slip.

I am running a Diamond Stealth 24 VLB card.  I downloaded new drivers
from
their BBS about 2 months ago (amazing that the drivers in the package
were
out of date already).  Machine configuration is a 486DX-33, 8Meg ram,
1.5Gig hard drive.

I have already donw the 4.1.1 route (if I remember, there was a big fix
there associated with fonts).

As for the file size, just starting and exiting Ventura will ALWAYS
crash
it.  Even if I don't open any file.  Just double click on the icon (hit
return on the two prompts for the scanner not installed - I have
reinstalled ventura a couple of times JUST to be sure and the last time
I
forgot which file I needed to delete to make the message go away).

I have doubled the defaults and the last time this was happening I
uploaded my configuration as well as the crashes from the previous
times
and certainly can put all of that together again if necessary.  Any
clues?
-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com


Date: 1993-12-05,11:47
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

John,

You're definitely in the zone of That Which Should Not Occur.  Let me
think a little more about this and get back to you.

Date: 1993-12-05,10:39
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Crashing 4.1

David,

 >> SDEV is the module name of a screen driver, isn't it?  What video
card
 >> are you using, and are you sure you have the latest and greatest
drivers
 >> for it?

I had a GPF that just suddenly popped up as I was exiting CVP pointing
to the module SDEV also.  I cannot find a file name on my computer
anywhere with "SDEV" contained in it.  The header of the DRWATSON.LOG
file follows:

------

Start Dr. Watson 0.80 - Fri Dec  3 21:59:38 1993
***********************************************************************
**** Dr. Watson 0.80 Failure Report - Fri Dec  3 22:01:54 1993 VPWIN
had a 'Unknown' fault at SDEV 1:2f44 $tag$VPWIN$Unknown$SDEV
1:2f44$callf   word ptr [0d8c]$Fri Dec  3 22:01:54 1993 $param$, Last
param error was: Invalid flags passed to KERNEL 1:0463: 0x8000

------

I ran Norton's Text Search in various directories and found the SDEV
seems to be an internal section in various of the CVP scanning modules
including SCAN.DLL. Why this should fail I don't know but have since
renamed SCAN.DLL since I don't use it anyway.

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-04,15:23
From: John Murdoch 71507,1212
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Hi John!

I rather suspect that the problem isn't Ventura--but your video driver.
If you're seeing a GPF at "SDEV", you might try to figure out how or
from whom you got SDEV.DLL (or SDEV.EXE). That's the root of your
problem.

Ventura Publisher makes extensive use of video drivers for determining
things like onscreen kerning of fonts. Since none of the applications
you mentioned (specifically Frame) does it, it wouldn't turn up with
them. I'd suggest that you contact your video driver manufacturer, and
get an update.

JM



Date: 1993-12-04,22:07
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Interesting.  Based on that, I went and changed my video driver to
something completely different (but more generic) and ran VP to see
what I
get.  Unfortunately, I got a different GPF (WHMIFF.WH1 000a:002C) but
at
exactly the same point in time as I got the other one.  Being the
curious
sort, I decided to cull out all of the Ventura GPFs from my Dr. Watson
logs to see if there was any sort of pattern.  Here it is with all of
the
counts of frequency.


. Freq Dr. Watson Report
. ---- ----------------------------------------------------------
. 45  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at SDEV 1:2f44.
. 19  VPWIN had a 'Exceed Segment Bounds (RMW)' fault at KERNEL 1:a165.
. 19  VPWIN had a 'Exceed Segment Bounds (Read)' fault at ATM 3:488b.
. 11  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at VPWIN 10:d137.
.  5  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (RMW)' fault at VSEPS 1:0465.
.  5  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at VPWIN 29:0b74.
.  4  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at HPPCL5A 14:2e91.
.  3  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at VPWIN 29:0186.
.  2  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at DISPLAY 2:1322.
.  2  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Write)' fault at VPWIN 30:0d01.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at VPWIN 30:0cfa.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at VPWIN 2:2b6c.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at Unknown address.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at DISPLAY 7:04d7.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at VPWIN 11:6a33.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at GDI 3:0298.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Exceed Segment Bounds (Write)' fault at VPWIN
2:2a92.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Exceed Segment Bounds (Read)' fault at KERNEL
3:0350.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Exceed Segment Bounds (Read)' fault at VPWIN 9:8fd8.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at ATM 4:0c2a.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at VPWIN 10:8228.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Null Selector (Read)' fault at VPWIN 30:0d01.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at IHDLL 10:002c.
.  1  VPWIN had a 'Unknown' fault at VPWIN 29:0b2b.

That is a total of 129 GPFs since March (It doesn't really count as
long
since I haven't used Ventura much in the past 3 months).

I will dial up the Diamond BBS as soon as I get this message uploaded
to
see if they have a newer driver for me.

Well, I spent the half-hour to download the 2.0 drivers from their BBS
and
I am still getting an the 'Unknown' Fault at SDEV 1:2F44
Last param error was: Invalid flags passed to KERNEL 1:0463: 0x8000.
Any
more suggestions?


-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com

Date: 1993-12-04,16:45
From: Chet M. 72643,1002
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: Where Are We Going

No matter how much blame VSI should be allotted for Ventura's present
state (or fate), Corel should accept some responsibility for the
product it's putting out. Corel did have the time to print (or churn)
the manuals, add its logo everywhere, and so forth--although it didn't
even have time to include any literature on scan or separator.

And in the best of unfortunate Ventura legacies, Corel has maintained
the standard misspellings and bad breaks in the hyphenation
dictionaries, such as "bulllish" and "acknow-ledge." It wouldn't have
taken much effort to fix those.

I suspect that Corel is too intent on turning Ventura into the Kmart of
DTP, which is a pity. Ventura deserves a shot in the arm, rather than
benign neglect.

--Chet


Date: 1993-12-05,09:17
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Chet M. 72643,1002
Subject: Where Are We Going

The 4.2 release was never promised to be anything more than what it is:
a repackaging of the Ventura products under the Corel name with
inclusion of fonts, clipart, a few minor bug fixes, and the Acrobat
support already announced by VSI.

It is my hope that Corel would focus its efforts on the next version of
VP which will be based on entirely new code rather than wasting time
and effort making engineering changes to code and modules that may not
be used in the next release.

I share your concern for the future of VP under Corel but I fear that
VP will suffer more from overly aggressive attention that results in
change for the sake of change than it will from benign neglect.

 -jrh


Date: 1993-12-07,15:59
From: Chet M. 72643,1002
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: Where Are We Going

Well, for one, I have no idea what to expect from Corel. In the past,
my excitement over Corel 1 was only matched by that of Ventura 1.
However, by the time of Corel 3--and especially 4, which still has
problems with something as basic as spot separations--I wonder what
Corel is doing.

As for the release being what Corel said it would be, unfortunately, I
didn't keep my copy of the release; nevertheless, a more honest
approach would have been to keep the 4.1.1 version number, or perhaps
4.1.2 would be more in keeping with what was actually done. After all,
4.2 implies something more than a couple of bug changes. (Corel could
have simply sent decals with its name and save all of us some money.)
Perhaps it would have also been more honest to mention that all the
fonts and clip art are direct from Corel 4.

--Chet


Date: 1993-12-08,01:36
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Chet M. 72643,1002
Subject: Where Are We Going

I have no argument with what you say and have expressed similar
feelings on this forum, I have  some feelings that I have expressed
even more strongly.

In the case of CVP4.2, it is a bit more than just a repackaging of
4.1.1 with a new logo, since there are some changes that are not just
bug fixes such as Acrobat support, the ability to install in any
directory, and the inclusion of Database Publisher. I don't think Corel
made any secret of the fact that the fonts and clipart were from CDR4.

Still, when it comes to the software to which the number is applied,
CVP 4.1.2 is probably a bit more realistic in terms of what is actually
delivered.

 -jrh

Date: 1993-12-05,11:48
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Chet M. 72643,1002
Subject: Where Are We Going

Chet,

I appreciate your message and agree fully with your sentiments, and
then some.

Date: 1993-12-05,16:33
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Chet M. 72643,1002
Subject: Where Are We Going

You won't hear any disagreement from me on that.

Karl

Date: 1993-12-05,08:38
From: Daniel G Mintz 70322,1065
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Installing From The CD

I added the 'temp' directory.

BUT found that installing using SETUP2 was even more important
(contrary to the written instructions). Using SETUP never worked. Using
SETUP2 does.

Everything seems to be okay.

Thanks for your help.

- Dan

Date: 1993-12-05,11:55
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Crashing 4.1

It is amazing, I just started doing the same search (curiosity really
got
to me).  My DRWATSON log entry is identical to what you have (all 49
entries).  Superfind confirms that SDEV is in C:\VENTURA\SCAN.DLL as
well
as in all of the C:\VENTURA\*.SCN files.  There are also some
references
to ?SDEV? in the backup utilities for Norton/Microsoft Backup, but
since I
am not running any backup stuff at the time it happes, I believe that I
can rule that out pretty quickly.

It does seem like the problem is indeed with Ventura.
-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com


Date: 1993-12-05,15:52
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

John, just a request:  please use the REPLY command rather than the
POST command when you reply to existing messages.  Each of your
messages is creating a separate thread.  That makes it very hard for us
(and others) to keep track of our discussion.

The SDEV reported by Dr. Watson is a module name, not an entry point.
The module name of a Windows EXE or DLL is not necessarily the same as
its filename; it's a data item contained in the file's header.  (For
example, the module name of CORELVP.EXE is still "VPWIN".)  Windows
will not allow more than one module with the same module name
simultaneously.

Especially if you haven't got a scanner that works with Ventura Scan,
and if you didn't intend for that module to load, then if you have the
Scan files on your hard drive at all, your installation is plainly
incorrect.  I'd strongly suggest saving off the files HASH.FID and
VPWIN.INF, deleting all other files in your \VENTURA directory (or
whatever other directory you have Ventura Publisher installed in), and
doing a "custom" installation with only the elements you really want to
use (i.e. Ventura Publisher).



Date: 1993-12-05,16:44
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Alas, I had intended to do a reply.  Seems like my automated software
(AutoPilot) had a difference of an opinion on the matter one time.  If
this has occurred more than once, I will have to pester the AutoPilot
person (I just click on the Reply button)

Reinstalling?  Since my disks are 4.1 and stored away somewhere, that
means re-downloading the 4.1.1 patch on top of it - right?  Is there a
way
I can just get a decent disk set of 4.1.1? Is there another way to turn
off the scanner stuff without going through the re-install process?  (I
lost a 1/2 Gig partition recently to reinstallation of some software
and
really don't want to revisit that scenario).  Thanks very much.

-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com


Date: 1993-12-05,17:41
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John A. 70007,3467
Subject: Crashing 4.1

John,

Unfortunately there is no way any more to get a real 4.1.1 disk set, short
of time travel or buying someone's set from the Ventura Publisher PowerPack.
But I understand your desire not to have to reinstall and re-update the
files.

Maybe what I should do is list the files that should be in your Ventura
directory so that you can prune out the others.  The obvious one to zap
first if you aren't using Ventura Scan is SCAN.DLL, though.

Here's what I had in my VP/Win 4.1.1 directory at last count:

HPGL.BFF       PCTTOGEM.CNF    HENDP148.DAT
HYPHEXPT.DIC   HYPHUSER.DIC    ALERT.DLL
DIALOG3D.DLL   ICDLL.DLL       MUSCROLL.DLL
PALETTE.DLL    PARAM.DLL       RDLL.DLL
RULERAPI.DLL   STANDBY.DLL     STATAPI.DLL
TLBX.DLL       TLBXUTIL.DLL    TLCB.DLL
TLHELP.DLL     TLLB.DLL        TLSCRL.DLL
VPAPI.DLL      VPSCRMOD.DLL    VPWFEF.DLL
VPWINLIB.DLL   VPWINNET.DLL    IAMFX528.DSK
BBEDIT.EXE     SETUP2.EXE      VPWIN.EXE
HASH.FID       WVENT72.FON     WVENT96.FON
PALETTE.HLP    VPSCRMOD.HLP    VPWIN.HLP
VPWIN.MEN      VPWIN.MSG       SPLDICT.PD
PARAMS.PPT     IAMFX528.RAM    WFNTLOOK.UP
VPWIN4.SRN     VPWIN.STR       CMYKPROC.TXT
CMYKSPOT.TXT   README.TXT      RGBPROC.TXT
RGBSPOT.TXT    DITHER.VP       WHMIFF.WH1
WACADSLD.WLD   WAMI.WLD        WASCII_7.WLD
WASCII_8.WLD   WCGM.WLD        WDCA.WLD
WEPSF.WLD      WGENATED.WLD    WHPGL.WLD
WINWORD.WLD    WINWORD2.WLD    WLOTPIC.WLD
WMPNT.WLD      WMSWORD.WLD     WMULTMAT.WLD
WPCX.WLD       WPICT.WLD       WPRN2TBL.WLD
WTIFF.WLD      WWDPERF4.WLD    WWDPERF5.WLD
WWS.WLD        WWSUK.WLD       WXYWRITE.WLD


Date: 1993-12-06,06:39
From: John A. 70007,3467
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Crashing 4.1

Ok, thanks.  I will go through and prune everything.
-- John A. Toebes, VIII -- Obvious Implementations Corp.
-- Internet: toebes@oic.com

Date: 1993-12-05,14:51
From: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
To: All
Subject: Fonts in graphics lost

I am very frustrated with my inability to solve a particular problem.

I have before had problems with PS graphics that contained fonts. When
imported into VP, the fonts didn't download to the print files, so when
I printed the document to the laser from VP it printed fine, but when I
sent print files to the service bureau the fonts disappeared. I solved
that problem by saving the PS graphic in Corel Draw with fonts included
in the document.

Last week I had a project that required me to load 16 graphs from
Quattro Pro into Ventura frames. I tried to establish a DDE link by
copying and Paste Linking into Ventura. It apparently worked, though I
continually got error messages like "Unrecognized OLE Error."  Anyway,
the fonts in about half of the graphs look and print fine from Quattro
Pro, but when printed from VP, the fonts print either too big or two
little.

I realized that the QPW graphs were done in Ariel (TT), so I went back
into QPW and changed all the fonts to Helvetica, thinking it would
solve the problem. It didn't.

Why won't the same PS Helvetica font that is used in both QPW and
Ventura print properly from Ventura?  I just don't get it.

I never have any DTP problems until I try to load and print something
from Ventura . . .

Tom G. Tom Giovanetti



Date: 1993-12-07,23:55
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
Subject: Fonts in graphics lost

 >> I never have any DTP problems until I try to load and print
something
 >> from Ventura . . .

In this case, you are trying to load and print in Ventura, something
from Quatro Pro.<g>

Did exporting from Quattro Pro as WMF work any better than OLE?

(Note to lurkers: I just spoke with Tom by phone on a different matter
and suggested exporting rather than OLE.)

 -jrh


Date: 1993-12-08,01:37
From: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
To: Jim Hart 76702,646
Subject: Fonts in graphics lost

Jim,

Turns out I was wrong . . . can't export from QPW as wmf.  My options
are TIF, CGM, BMP, EPS (no), and PCX. Oh, and GIF <g>.

Getting frustrating.  I have to fedex these out tomorrow afternoon.

Your explanation made sense, but no amount of fiddling with Ventura
frame dimensions or QPW page setup parameters seems to have worked.

And to compound things, I seem to be running out of ink cartridges for
my HP1200C/PS <g>.

Tom G. Tom Giovanetti

Date: 1993-12-05,20:41
From: Richard DeVos 73302,1426
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: lockup on startup 4.2

Hi,  Just installed VP 4.2 on a DX2-66 with Diamond Viper Local bus.
Everything works except VP4.2.  When the message "Loading Screen
Drivers"  comes up it locks and I have to Ctl/Alt/Del the window.  I
tried using several different operating modes including 800X600 256
color.

Any help is appreciated
Rick


Date: 1993-12-05,22:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard DeVos 73302,1426
Subject: lockup on startup 4.2

Richard,

More than likely your computer is not locked up when this happens.
More than likely, you just have a lot of fonts installed in Windows,
and Ventura is taking a good long look at them.  This will not have to
happen every time you start up the program!

I'm sorry that this area of the code is so slow, and that there aren't
any on-screen messages to tell you that things are not frozen; we have
tried for years to get this changed, specifically because of new users,
but for now it is still the way it is.  If you try to do a local reboot
while this is occurring, Windows will tell you that the application has
stopped responding to the system.  That doesn't mean that the program
is frozen; it doesn't respond to the system because it's busy, not
because it's broken.

The only thing I can advise you to do is leave time for the machine to
process the font information.  Give it several minutes at least; if you
have more than 400 or 500 fonts installed, you may have to give it ten
minutes or more, even on a nice fast machine like yours.

Date: 1993-12-05,23:41
From: kathleen 72130,713
To: 76701,272
Subject: RSVP

David, what do I have to do to get RSVP.exe to work with Corel Ventura?
Thanks.

kd



Date: 1993-12-06,07:40
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: kathleen 72130,713
Subject: RSVP

Kathleen,

When Corel Ventura was released, I uploaded a new version of RSVP which
works with it; I've been using it with CVP 4.2 myself.  It has a file
size of 6992 bytes.  Do you have that version?

RSVP needs to be in the same directory as your Ventura executables are
in, and you should give its icon the same /I= command line argument
that your Corel Ventura icon has--since by default, Corel Ventura
stores VPWIN.INF in a subdirectory now.

Please let me know if any of this is unclear, or if the program still
isn't working for you.



Date: 1993-12-06,11:35
From: kathleen 72130,713
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: RSVP

Thanks, David. I don't have your new version of RSVP yet, I was trying
to work it by moving the old RSVP.exe into the CorelVP directory. I'll
download the new version.

It has made me realize how much I rely on RSVP! I use it probably 90%
of the time to start VP.

Do you think it's safe for me to delete my old \ventura directory? I
haven't quite trusted the new version enough yet. Are YOU running
CorelVP 4.2 exclusively?

--kd



Date: 1993-12-06,18:46
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: kathleen 72130,713
Subject: RSVP

Kathleen,

 >> Do you think it's safe for me to delete my old \ventura directory?
I
 >> haven't quite trusted the new version enough yet. Are YOU running
CorelVP
 >> 4.2 exclusively?

I've completely eliminated all previous versions of VP and am running
4.2 exclusively.  (I know, you addressed your message to David, but I
had to stick my nose in. <G>)  I believe it's more stable than 4.1.1
and big jump over any previous version.

Cleve


Date: 1993-12-07,01:00
From: kathleen 72130,713
To: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
Subject: RSVP

Thanks, Cleve--I'll take your word for it and eliminate VP 4.1.1. I
need the hard disk space for the Corel Draw 4 that I bought with the VP
upgrade!

kd

Date: 1993-12-06,23:20
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: kathleen 72130,713
Subject: RSVP

Kathleen,

I am using CVP 4.2 exclusively, and have been for about six weeks.
Last week I used it for a good-sized multi-file typesetting job with
numerous typefaces under a very tight deadline.  Such conditions will
normally bring out the glitches, but I had only one in 3-1/2 long days:
a one-paragraph slippage in the CAP file, which is anything but a new
bug.



Date: 1993-12-07,01:16
From: kathleen 72130,713
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: RSVP

Thanks, David.

Goodbye VP 4.1.1!

kd

Date: 1993-12-06,08:19
From: John Axline 73130,335
To: COREL tech support
Subject: out-of-memory bug

Using VP 4.1.1 I ran out of internal memory (in a 16 Mb system!) last
week. VP announces that it can't save some files, and that they will be
lost. This problem seems very fixable - at least warn the user when he
loads the file that breaks the camel, so he can back off - and I posted
a message last week asking Corel if it had been fixed in 4.2. So far
I've gotten two very kind replies from the volunteer sysops, and
silence from Corel. COREL?

Date: 1993-12-06,11:13
From: CHARLIE YARWOOD 71600,466
To: all
Subject: stubborn tables

I ran into an interesting problem recently. I had prepared text for a
rather wordy customer. This text was destined to end up in a Ventura
table. The prob is as follows:  Some of the lines (which contained
quite a bit of text) broke at unexpected points. As though there was
some sort of limit to the number of character to a line (row). Some of
these breaks were even in the middle of a word. I was very carefull to
make sure that there was 2 or more spaces between each cell of a row,
and no multiple spaces within a cell's text. There were no hard returns
in the rows' text and no unusual characters within. I've done some very
complex tables in Ventura and have never seen this happen before. I'm
working with VPWIN 4.1.1 and the text is in plain ole ASCII. I have a
zipped- up copy of the chapter ready to upload for anyone curious
enough to have a look.The culprit file is on page 2. I can manually fix
the problem (as I did on page 1), but I've got about 4 or 5 more of
these to do. I will gladly accept any suggestions or diagnoses.

Thanks, charlie y.


Date: 1993-12-07,23:55
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: CHARLIE YARWOOD 71600,466
Subject: stubborn tables

Hi, Charlie!

I am very familiar with the situation you describe. I believe the
problem is due to a combination of several factors.

1. Text in tables is not hyphenated when the chapter is loaded.
However, if
   hyphenation is on, the table text will hyphenate when the text is
edited.

2. Regardless of how it should work, end-of-paragraph markers and
end-of-line
   markers (Line Breaks) do take up some space and may force text to
wrap at
   inopportune times.

3. There are other factors that have an effect, such as no-break
spaces, text
   attributes, discretionary hyphens, etc. but they seem to not apply
in your
   case.

The result of all this is that if a word is too long to fit in the
remaining space at the end of a line in a cell, it should wrap to the
next line. If two such words appear in succession, one of them will
usually be broken at some point and the remainder of the word will
appear on the  next line.

Since hyphenation is not being applied, there is no rule for
determining where the break should occur--it just happens when VP
decides it has run out of room. The break doesn't always occur at what
appears to be the cell boundary. Sometimes, part of a word will extend
into the next cell before breaking.

I had a client last year that had this problem with tables generated
from a database. The client was not using VDBP, but was writing Clipper
code to extract the data and construct the tables. I no longer work
with this client, but at last report, they had located some Clipper
modules that extracted font metrics from AFM files. They were trying to
use this information to copyfit the text into each  cell by
precalculating the space available and applying hyphens where necessary
by inserting a "- " into the word at the desired break point and
forcing line breaks with <R>. This approach showed some promise, but at
last report, it was only moderately successful.

The only way I know of to force hyphenation in a table is edit each
cell after a table is loaded by positioning the text cursor in each
cell and inserting and deleting a character. If the tables are
consistent in the number of rows and cells, it may be possible automate
this somewhat with the Windows Macro Recorder.

This may or may not solve all your problems. I didn't try a macro for
my client because they were using VPGEM. However, I did  verify that
VPWin behaved the same way.

 -jrh

Date: 1993-12-06,12:12
From: Peter Glaze 72600,2110
To: all
Subject: GEM error in VPWIN?

One of my clients came up with the following problem in VP 4.1.1:

After creating a new document in landscape orientation with a paper
size of 8.5 x 14, she made the base page frame 8 x 12.5. She then
inserted a table with 27 rows and 37 columns. Now, whenever she tries
to enter text into a cel of the table she gets an error message stating
that the frame is too complicated and that she needs the Professional
Extension and more EMS.

This is a DOS/GEM error message! why is she getting it in VP Windows?

Incidentally, this is on a Compaq 486DX2/66 with 16 megs of RAM. Has
anybody experienced this message. Also, I can't duplicate the error on
my own system.

Thanks. Peter E. Glaze, 72601,2110



Date: 1993-12-06,23:20
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Peter Glaze 72600,2110
Subject: GEM error in VPWIN?

Peter,

The error message that you quote is embarrassingly inappropriate, I
have to agree.  In fact the error handling in all versions and editions
of Ventura Publisher has always been below par.  And there has long
been a bias at VSI (which Corel acquired this time around) against
fixing old bugs unless they caused a total loss of functionality.

In general, if you get that message, the thing to do is increase the
buffer sizes in Ventura's Help.About dialog--and save your work more
often until you are sure the system is stable.



Date: 1993-12-07,01:52
From: Peter Glaze 72600,2110
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: GEM error in VPWIN?

David,

Thank you very much for the quick reply. I have been using VP Win
extensively (and helping others who use it as well) for a couple of
years now, and I am embarrassed to say that I didn't realize that
particular menu existed. However, I am grateful to know that it does
because I can remember other times when I can see it would have
applied.

I will try expanding the buffer tomorrow, but I have no doubt that this
is the solution to the problem.

I guess I really shouldn't have been so surprised to see that message
-- I have been receiving bizarre messages from Ventura for years. I
should be used to it by now. My client will be grateful.

Incidentally, when changing table column widths by the numbers instead
of by using ALT+ the mouse, I always get a VP Alert explaining that I
can use ALT+ the mouse as a shortcut. Is there any way to get this
stupid message to stop displaying? It's a real pain in the neck.

Thanks. Peter Glaze



Date: 1993-12-07,10:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Peter Glaze 72600,2110
Subject: GEM error in VPWIN?

Thanks for your kind words.

Unfortunately I know of no way to stop the "VP Alert" from coming up
when you change table column widths through the dialog box, short of
patching the dialog procedure itself (not recommended).

Date: 1993-12-06,10:16
From: Michael Shea 75050,3504
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: WIN87EM.DLL Error

New problem.  After installing 4.2, I started getting an horrendous GPF
in module WIN87EM.DLL @ 0001:08C9.  I've tracked this down to being a
math coprocessor emulation program.  The error occurs in Dashboard 2.0
, which I use as my Windows shell, but only while printing in Corel
Ventura 4.2.  The error never occured in 4.1.1.  I have contacted the
Hewlett Packard forum about this problem but thought that you might
want to now about it.  I'm sure other CVP 4.2 users will eventually
have the same problem if they are using Dashboard.

Why would either of these programs use a math co-processor emulation
when a math co-processor physically exists on my machine.  Mine is a
386DX-40 with 8meg of RAM w/ a 387, but one other person had the same
problem on a 486DX2.  No emulation needed!?

Anyway, I thought Corel should be aware of this and if there is
anything you can offer in the way of advice, I'd appreciate it.  As it
stands, I've had to unload DB and go back to the hideous ProgMan in
order to work in CVP 4.2.

Not good.

Mike
Alexandria, VA


Date: 1993-12-06,16:04
From: Charles Miller 70540,2350
To: Michael Shea 75050,3504
Subject: WIN87EM.DLL Error

Michael, it's my understanding that one shouldn't have the floating
point emulator installed (it's a line in SYSTEM.INI) when there's a
physical coprocessor installed. You might try running through the
SYSTEM.INI, finding the driver, and commenting out the line.

I'll also note that I had a very obscure error in Acrobat Distiller. I
installed the Cyrix 386/486 upgrade chip in my box and I already had a
387 copro installed. Distiller (the mother of all PS interpreters)
would crash every single time. Eventually, I pinned it down to the
coprocessor. When I removed it, Distiller ran. This shouldn't
be--particularly since the Cyrix install indicated that my 387 was
compatible with the Cyrix processor, but there you have it. You too may
be experiencing an obscure compatibility problem.

Charlie

Date: 1993-12-06,15:04
From: NEIL M. RUDA 70243,212
To: All
Subject: GPF Loading CVP Fonts

I am attempting to use the Type 1 fonts included on the CD-ROM version
of CPV 4.2. I have installed the fonts using ATM 2.6, and have also
made them available to my LaserMaster WinPrinter 600XL. Now I'm in CVP
trying to create a new width table, but I continually get GPF errors.

When I try to create a width table when using the LM postscript driver,
after reading a number of fonts CVP will give me the GPF message. It
states that the error is being caused by VPWINLIB.DLL and bombs me out
of the program. When I've tried to create a width table with the LM
direct driver, then the error messages claims WINPRINT.DRV is causing
the problem. Yet when I try to create a width table when only a few
fonts are installed in ATM, then things work fine.

Can someone help me solve this problem? I read in the documentation
addendum that CVP only likes less than 300 fonts. A message on this
forum stated that someone had 400-500 fonts installed. Using VP 4.11 I
used to have several hundred fonts installed also. Is there in fact a
ceiling on the number of fonts? If so, why are tempted by the 750 fonts
included in the package??? Please help me!
Thanks!


Date: 1993-12-06,18:46
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: NEIL M. RUDA 70243,212
Subject: GPF Loading CVP Fonts

Neil,

I've no experience with LM products, running straight Postscript with
the Windows 3.58 driver myself.  I regularly use 300-400 fonts which,
although it slows things down a tad, works find in 4.2.  There have, of
course, been some changes in VPWINLIB.DLL done to help speed up the
determination of whether ENVIRON.WID needs to be rebuilt as well as
some other anomalies so that may, note I say "may", have caused an
adverse reaction between it and the LM drivers.  I just don't know.  I
do know that VP/Win 4.2 can operated quite well with a lot more than
300 fonts installed.

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-06,23:20
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: NEIL M. RUDA 70243,212
Subject: GPF Loading CVP Fonts

Neil,

I believe that the suggested limit of 300 fonts in the README file is
because of how long it takes to build or check ENVIRON.WID at startup.

During the beta, I tested CVP 4.2 with more than 700 fonts installed;
it ran just fine.  Somewhere between 775 and 799 fonts, though, I did
get a message saying in effect that "enough was enough".  I don't know
whether fonts or font families are the limiting factor.

--When you get a GPF in Windows, the system error message does not
(cannot) tell you whose "fault" it was in the moral sense--it can only
tell you the name of the EXE file associated with the currently
scheduled task when the error was detected, and the name of the module
containing the code that was running at the time.  A 16-bit Windows
program or driver can cause errors to occur in other tasks and modules.

The main thing that can go wrong during width table building is a
"System error:  divide overflow or divide by zero" error.  The
susceptibility to errors of this type was greatly reduced in version
4.1 from what it had been previously, but LaserMaster drivers are the
lone exception (as they are to so many things)--we had a few other
reports of crashes during font enumeration on LM systems even in
version 4.1.1.  The error is thus both driver-related and font-related.

Given that you must use the LM driver, your only option is to find out
which fonts you have installed that, if you uninstall them, you don't
get the crashes.  You can start be uninstalling half the fonts you now
have installed, and trying to load VP again.  If it crashes again,
unload half the remaining fonts, but if it does not crash, reinstall
half the fonts that you had just _un_installed.  Using that type of
"binary search" you will soon figure out which font or fonts the LM
driver is having a problem with.

Date: 1993-12-07,19:33
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: NEIL M. RUDA 70243,212
Subject: GPF Loading CVP Fonts

I can't confirm this just now but I recall hearing of some problems
between ATM and the LM Winprinter. It might be worth posting a similar
query in the Adobe forum ATM section.

Karl

Private: No
Receipt: No
ExHeader: YES
Date: 1993-12-06,15:47
From: Per olof 100141,3554
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

Case: Installed upgrade to 4.2 from 4.1.1: Most works fine _but_
chapters produced with 4.1.1 containing TIFF and PCX graphics does not
load but aborts with error message on "Not enough memory, or Wrong
format".
Machine is same, everything is the same except for VP.
Note: Only files removed from \VENTURA is VP.EXE and old help files.
Could it be it?


Date: 1993-12-06,17:59
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Per olof 100141,3554
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

I have heard of problems (and experienced it myself just now, when I decided
to check firsthand) in loading EPS files generated by applications that
cannot create a TIF image header. CVP 4.2 is apparently unable to load those.
However, I can't think of anything inherent in TIF and PCX files that would
make them not load. I just opened a chapter created in 4.1.1, containing TIF
files, and they loaded just fine. I don't generally use PCX files because
they tend to cause more problems and TIF format provides more flexibility.

The only think I can think of that might have an affect here is if, in
installing CVP 4.2, you somehow nearly filled up the hard drive on which your
temporary files are being created. If you have less than 10 megs on the drive
when your TEMP variable points, this may be the problem.

     BARN [Mon 06-DEC-1993  3:22p]


Date: 1993-12-07,05:03
From: Per olof 100141,3554
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

Thank you for your tips. I'ts a bit messy to keep track of all the
places now where Ventura keeps it's files - I was in too much of a
hurry to notice that the *.IMG files now are in a separate directory,
and that drive was filled quickly when loading a chapter with a lot of
graphics. This also means one should clean up the old *.IMG's kept in
same directory as original files.

Is there a problem editing the *.INI to direct the *.IMG files to
another place than \VENTURA\IMG\? I'm going to try it now.

Also I'd like some tip on setting the memory for Ventura; I use a
486/66 with 8MB RAM and a 25MB swap file.


Date: 1993-12-07,11:55
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Per olof 100141,3554
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

>> Is there a problem editing the *.INI to direct the *.IMG files to another
   place than \VENTURA\IMG\? I'm going to try it now. <<

No, there is no problem with that (unless, of course, you do it wrong). There
are instruction on how to change the IMG path in the READCVP.WRI file that is
automatically installed in the program group containing CVP.

As far as the memory settings, if MY memory serves, 16 megs for a swap file
should be adequate, and, presuming this is on the same drive as the TEMP
directory, that would allow more space for those things that MUST go to the
path specified by the TEMP variable.

     BARN [Tue 07-DEC-1993  9:28a]


Date: 1993-12-08,08:41
From: Per olof 100141,3554
To: Byron Canfield 76702,604
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

On memory, a 16MB swap file (and 8MB RAM) in rare cases can be just too
small if you run other programs when loading or printing a chapter with
lots of graphics.

I would also like to take the opportunity to give my vote for the
current file system, possibly improved.

Date: 1993-12-06,18:46
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Per olof 100141,3554
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

Per,

Did you go back to the Help/About box and reset your memory defaults?
I'm always forgetting to do this on a reinstall or deletion of
VPWIN.INF.  You might also try deleting VPWIN.INF before doing this and
then resetting all your defaults when you restart VP.  You'll have to
wait for it to ask you if you want to rebuild ENVIRON.WID, though.

 >> Note: Only files removed from \VENTURA is VP.EXE and old help
files.
 >> Could it be it?

I had no problems installing the new version over the old versions.

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-07,18:23
From: Ed Brown 100042,2271
To: Per olof 100141,3554
Subject: Help me, I'm TIFFed

Per,

Can you confirm that it is the TIFF files that are actually causing the
problem or may it be another file in the same chapter.

Rgds Ed

Date: 1993-12-06,16:06
From: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
To: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

Received my copy of Corel Ventura 4.2 and it seems that it will not
read even read 2.0 formats saved from  WFW 6.0  (and, as you said, not
6.0 format).  I guess I need to maintain two copies of Word in order to
prepare documents that are currently being loaded into Ventura from
Word.  Do you think I might receive some help in the Word for Windows
forum area?  How long do you think it will be before some kind of
utility comes out to accomplish this?  I guess I could redo the macros
to save in text format and put in the codes that Ventura needs for
bolding, certain fonts, etc. instead of using Word to put those
features in.  Hmmm....

Plus another quick question:  is there any easy way to change to
default directory that "PRINT TO FILE" writes to.  Right now it writes
to the corel40\corelvp directory, but would like it to write to another
directory without typing the directory in every time.  We print to file
regularly and would like to keep the files separate from all the other
jazz in the current default directory.

Thanks


Date: 1993-12-06,17:59
From: Byron Canfield 76702,604
To: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

Are you certain that the LAST time the file is saved, that it is saved ONLY
in W4W 2.0 format? I have noted that W4W 2.0 will save in other formats but
when you attempt to close the file, even if you just saved it, it prompts you
to save again, and, if you answer "yes," it will save again, but in the
native format (to the same name).

I don't think there is a way to change the destination of a print file,
though I intend to explore it. In the meantime, what you can do (what I have
setup most of the time) is use the Windows Macro Recorder and have a REC file
loaded whenever you intend to do extensive printing to files. Have a macro
that contains the keystrokes:

     D:\DIRNAME\.PRN

And also four left cursor keystrokes so it leaves the insertion bar just
before the period, awaiting your chosen filename. Whenever the dialog box
pops up prompting you for the filename, you execute the macro and type in the
filename.


Date: 1993-12-06,18:46
From: Cleve Garvin 73030,167
To: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

Curtis,

I don't have Word 6.0 nor do I have Word 2.0 installed so I can't test
your problem with trying to load WFW6 files saved as WFW2 files.  If
you can't get those to work, is there another format offered you can
save to, like ASCII?  You can enter the Ventura bracket <> codes and, I
supposed, define them in a Word macro.

 >> Plus another quick question:  is there any easy way to change to
 >> default directory that "PRINT TO FILE" writes to.

I'd like this too but have found no way to accomplish it.  The easiest
way I've found is to set up a \PS directory off the root of a hard
driver so all I have to do is type in "d:\PS\filename.ext" to print to
file where "d" equals the drive letter.  Not quite as simple as setting
a default but it's the easiest way I've found.

Cleve

Date: 1993-12-07,19:33
From: Karl Anthony 76702,1206
To: Curtis Gaylord 76170,1273
Subject: Reading Word 6.0

I see you've already gotten good advice and not having access to W4W
6.0 myself I can't test this personally. Just for clarification are you
getting an error message or otherwise what goes wrong?

Karl

Date: 1993-12-06,22:07
From: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
To: All
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

I have a question about trapping in Ventura.

I know how to add trap to a graphic in Corel or Adobe Illustrator
before importing it into Ventura, but does Ventura trap the colors it
produces? Specifically, if you do a table and fill some of the cells
with a screen value, does Ventura account for trapping?

Thanks,


Tom Giovanetti



Date: 1993-12-07,07:25
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

Tom--

Sadly, for a program that does more and more with color, Ventura has no
built-in trapping capabilities of any kind.

There's a raging debate about who should be doing trapping, and at what
stage in the process.  But, in the meantime, if trapping were a concern
in files created in VP, it'll have to be done elsewhere.

Regards,

--Dave Makulec


Date: 1993-12-07,23:18
From: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
To: David Makulec 70524,716
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but . . .

I can see that graphics imported into Ventura should be responsible for
they're own trapping, but shouldn't Ventura be responsible for trapping
color effects IT creates?

Put another way, if I can't trap a Ventura table with Ventura, how else
can I do it?

Tom G. Tom Giovanetti



Date: 1993-12-08,03:49
From: Wayne Kaplan 70053,1077
To: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

There is a program called Publisher's Prism that will trap and
PostScript PRN file. I bought it several years ago, but I assume they
are still in business. The company is Insight Systems in Vienna, VA
(703) 938-0250. By the way the program only handled CYMK at that time,
no support for Pantone. I don't know if there are any newer versions
that work with spot and process color.

Hope this is of some help.

Wayne Kaplan

Date: 1993-12-08,08:15
From: David Makulec 70524,716
To: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

Tom--

Don't get me wrong--I think trapping capabilities within VP would be a
great feature.  It's just that the issue is pretty complex (depending
on the complexity of your graphics & color combinations), particularly
when colored type and colored backgrounds are involved.

"How else can I do it?"  You'd need some kind of post-processor for
your files, and a different work flow, probably--Aldus's Trapwise,
Island (?) Trapper, and a couple others come to mind.  They're not
cheap.

Or there's the Scitex route, or letting one's printer take care of
it--the "old-fashioned" way.

Regards,

--Dave Makulec

Date: 1993-12-07,23:55
From: Jim Hart 76702,646
To: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
Subject: Ventura Trapping?

Ventura does not trap. Sorry.

 -jrh

Date: 1993-12-07,09:51
From: Richard Grant 76662,2150
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Corel Ketstroke font

I know you have probably been very busy, but is there any good
possibility that the Corel Keystroke font will soon have a work-around
that will allow it to work with Ventura 4.2?


Date: 1993-12-07,10:31
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Richard Grant 76662,2150
Subject: Corel Ketstroke font

Richard,

That solution would have to come from Corel--the font itself would need
to be rebuilt, as I understand the situation.  I do not have the tools
to do it, and there would be copyright issues involved which, again,
only Corel would be in a position to deal with.

So I can't help you in this case, except by passing your request along
to them.

However, I think it is better the more users they have direct contact
with; they need to know who we are.  And they already know who I am.

Date: 1993-12-07,13:40
From: DAVID W. 76170,1333
To: All
Subject: Save to MSWrd2.0 Problem

HELP!

When I use Ventura Publisher 4.1 for Windows to edit text
that I had imported from Microsoft Word for Windows 2.0c,
and then save my chapter file (which, of course, writes my
edits back to the original Word document), the saving
process takes way too long (up to five minutes).  This
protraction of the saving process occurs whether my edits
were numerous or involved changing only one punctuation
mark.  The on-screen information box shows that "saving
XXXXXXXX.DOC" is the part of the overall chapter-saving
process that is taking so long.

Until recently, I had been using various versions of
WordPerfect and WordPerfect for Windows with Ventura for
several years and had encountered nothing of this sort.  My
attempts to cooperate with my employer's recent change from
WordPerfect for Windows to Microsoft Word for Windows as its
nationwide word-processing standard have brought this
problem with Word to my attention.

Has anyone else encountered this difficulty?  Is it possible
that my Word for Windows filter in Ventura has been
corrupted?


Date: 1993-12-07,15:11
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: DAVID W. 76170,1333
Subject: Save to MSWrd2.0 Problem

David,

The Word filters write in small increments alternately to three
different output files at once, then append two of those files to the
third one.  We have found that it makes a major difference how your
disk cache program is set up for this operation.  If you set your cache
so that write caching is enabled, you should get very good performance
from the Word filters--while without write caching there can be
problems such as you are having.

Microsoft's SMARTDRV, for example, does not cache writes to floppy
disks by default.  As a result, if you save your chapter directly to a
floppy (a practice we wouldn't recommend as a rule, but some people do
it) and it contains Word for Windows files, they will save very slowly
unless you change the settings in SMARTDRV.



Date: 1993-12-07,16:54
From: DAVID W. 76170,1333
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Save to MSWrd2.0 Problem

Thank you so much!  You've hit the nail on the head.  I had
been working on a chapter whose files were on a 1.44-meg
diskette.  SMARTDRV is, indeed, my disk-cache program and,
as you surmised, it was not set to cache writes to that
floppy drive.

Rather than change the cache settings for the floppy drives,
I've decided to take your advice and work off my hard drive.
Using Multi Chapter to copy all the files to my hard drive
(which does, by SMARTDRV's default, cache writes) solved my
problem.

Thanks again for your excellent sleuth work.

Date: 1993-12-07,16:12
From: James T. 72700,1372
To: All
Subject: Problem Loading File

I am having a peculiar problem with a chapter.  I have printed it many
times before without incident.  It contains a single file (in MultiMate
format).  Today I did quite a bit of editing (in Ventura), but when I
tried to print the chapter, Ventura crashed:  a GPF in WPWIN at
000F:0115.  I converted the file to WordPerfect 5.0 and tried again,
but when VP tried to load the file, the crash occurred again.
 Any help with this problem would be most appreciated.

Date: 1993-12-07,21:06
From: Tom Woolf 71301,1671
To: ALL
Subject: Stay or Go?????

I'd better start with a disclaimer: i.e. this isn't a flame against
*anybody*; not Ventura, not Corel, not the programmers, not anybody. I
don't want to fix any blame, just my problems.

Briefly, my 4.1.1 is almost unusable for our tabloid size newspaper
because copy changes between bold and italic and normal for no apparent
reason and because the tiling option for 4 tiled 8 1/2 by 11 logical
pages to cover 1 11 x 17 physical page prints stray lines from one
logical page onto another. There have been other problems with rules
and boxes appearing and disappearing for no reason, etc.

I had made up my mind to go to Pagemaker on a competitive upgrade when
I got the 4.2 announcement.

Does the new version have extensive bug fixes or is it as unstable as
the current one? (I'm sorry, I don't know any other way to ask....)

I understand there will be 5.0 "sometime" in '94 but obviously I have
to get publications out now.

In other words: Give me a reason to stay with Ventura. I'll listen....

Thanks

Tom


Date: 1993-12-07,21:58
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: Tom Woolf 71301,1671
Subject: Stay or Go?????

Tom,

There are several significant bug fixes in 4.2, as well as a little
strategy change with regard to width tables that would have saved
gallons of blood if it had only been made years ago.

However, an all-out attack was not made on the bugs and inefficiencies
in the program.  4.2 is a minor upgrade, of the kind that some
companies would issue for the cost of shipping and handling--apart from
the value added by the inclusion of VDBP and the fonts and clip art
(i.e. great value for some people, and zero value for others).

I do recommend the upgrade for serious users of the program, and feel
that Ventura Publisher is better in version 4.2 than it has ever been
before under Windows.  But if I remember correctly, the problems you
report having with 4.1.1 are not on the lists I saw of what was
supposed to be fixed.



Date: 1993-12-08,08:42
From: Tom Woolf 71301,1671
To: David Satz 76702,606
Subject: Stay or Go?????

David,

Thank you very much for your honesty. I sincerely appreciate it.

Please don't think your honesty has cost Corel a customer. All I can
say is that even if I do get a copy of Pagemaker I'll remain a
registered Ventura user, many people use both, and I'll re-evaluate as
each new release comes out.

Again, thanks for your reply.

Tom

Date: 1993-12-08,09:26
From: Mac Townsend 71732,2271
To: Tom Woolf 71301,1671
Subject: Stay or Go?????

<I had made up my mind to go to Pagemaker on a competitive upgrade when
I got the 4.2 announcement.>

You might want to think about that<g> There are more gremlins in that
box than you may be aware of. You might want to go browse the Aldus
Forum for a while before committing.

And I don't think they consider VP to be a competitive product and thus
eligible for the competitive upgrade, VP appears on none of the stuff
I've seen as one of the packages they'll "accept"--of course, this
stuff is all subject to change.

FWIW

Date: 1993-12-07,22:40
From: Tom Giovanetti 71530,3677
To: All
Subject: QPW Graphs in Ventura?

For weeks now I've been having fits coming up with a reliable way to
place color Quattro Pro graphs into Ventura.

I've tried exporting the graphs to EPS files, but that was a disaster.
I've since been told by Borland that there is indeed a problem with
their EPS export filter

I've spent 2 days this week so far trying to use OLE, copying the QPW
graph and Paste Linking it into Ventura.  This almost works, but the
fonts don't seem to fit properly once they've been introduced into
Ventura. Colors and graphics are perfect, but fon't seem to resize
themselves

I have to find a reliable way to place QPW graphs into Ventura.  Any
ideas? I have access to QPW, CorelDRAW, Adobe Illustrator, and Ventura

Thanks, Tom Giovanetti

Date: 1993-12-08,01:12
From: John Mosier 75706,3412
To: sysop
Subject: Download 4.2?

As a registered user of VP 4.1.1, is it possible to download an update
to 4.2?

John Mosier [75706,3412]


Date: 1993-12-08,07:04
From: David Satz 76702,606
To: John Mosier 75706,3412
Subject: Download 4.2?

4.2 is not a free update except for those who purchased Ventura
Publisher at retail within the "grace period".  Since there is no way
to determine on line who qualifies for the free update and who does
not, we don't have the files on line.

Date: 1993-11-29,20:12
From: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
To: John Murdoch 71507,1212
Subject: Automating graphics

JM,

I did consider accomplishing the desired effect using font symbols.
But, as the final output may be via an on-site LM setup of an older
vintage, I have my doubts! I'll keep your suggestion in mind in case
they decide they absolutely can't live without the "graphics". I
haven't experimented too much with VDBP's automatic frame location
features yet... perhaps the time has come.

Date: 1993-12-03,22:34
From: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
To: Any
Subject: Copying recipe fatality

I used to move DBP recipes with 3.0 and simply edit the RCP file to
indicate the new file locations. This doesn't work with 4.0-- at least
I can't get it to work. Using the recipe manager to copy the recipe I
get a "Failed to open index file" error message. Also, the DBF files
become corrupted and unrecognizable by DBP or Fox.

Has anyone successfully copied a recipe to another system with a
different file structure?! Any/all comments/suggestions greatly
appreciated!



Date: 1993-12-04,19:04
From: Sal Terillo 73730,630
To: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
Subject: Copying recipe fatality

Tim,

It's my observation that Recipe Manager will not automatically copy the
memo file(s) that are associated with database files that contain memo
fields. It appears that the memo file has to be copied manually. This
may account for the "failed to open index file" message.

I have used Recipe Manager to copy recipes to different subdirectories
and it works OK provided that all (and I do mean all) the files
associated with the recipe are where they are supposed to be. This
includes style sheets, width tables, text files and so on.

Something else that I notice is that it is not a good idea to choose
IGNORE when you are queried for a missing file. The recipe will be
copied or moved but it is highly likely that it will not open. This is
particularly unfortunate if you have chosen move because you no longer
have access to the working recipe because it doesn't exist anymore.
Keep those backups current!

Hopes this helps.

Sal


Date: 1993-12-04,19:43
From: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
To: Sal Terillo 73730,630
Subject: Copying recipe fatality

Sal,

Your input is most appreciated! In an attempt to simplify things, I
tried making a single directory and copying EVERYTHING to that
directory-- DBF's, memo fields, RCPs, DIC/DIXs, JO1 etc. etc. I still
cannot get this to work. I did notice that from the start, you cannot
make a copy of the RCP from DOS and expect anything to work at all.
When you use "Save As", DBP builds an index for the new RCP name.

Your observation re. backups is a subject dear to my heart and all of
this experimentation has been with a copy of my original RCP. I've
invested many hours in getting everything to work perfectly and don't
even consider messin' with the originals. (With this in mind there's no
way I'd even consider trying a "Move" at this point...)

>>...all... the files associated with recipe are where they are
supposed to be. This includes style sheets, width tables, text files
and so on.<<

I can't imagine what the location of the VP files has to do with
anything, but at this point, I'm willing to try anything! Have you
experienced a moved RCP not working because the VP files were not moved
as well?

What is really strange is that the DBF files, when copied with the
Recipe Manager, become corrupted. The message in both DBP and Fox
indicates this. When you try to Browse the table in Fox you can see
that only the first few records came across, the rest is garbage. This
has got to be a bug, plain and simple. If nothing else, hearing that
someone else has successfully accomplished this gives me a bit of
incentive to keep plugging away...



Date: 1993-12-06,18:43
From: Sal Terillo 73730,630
To: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
Subject: Copying recipe fatality

Hello Tim,

>>I can't imagine what the location of the VP files has to do with
anything, but at this point, I'm willing to try anything! Have you
experienced a moved RCP not working because the VP files were not moved
as well?<<

Yes, unfortunately. It's been my experience that Recipe Manager has to
be able to find everything associated with a recipe for it to
successfully complete a copy or a move. It seems as odd to me as it
does to you but that's the way it appears to work.

>>What is really strange is that the DBF files, when copied with the
Recipe Manager, become corrupted<<

That is strange. I also use FoxPro and I have never seen a dbf file to
be truly corrupted while working with CDBP. Just to be sure, I just
copied a recipe to a new subdirectory and then attempted to open the
copied dbf file.

As expected I received an error message related to the missing memo
file which we know is not automatically copied by Recipe Manager. Once
I copied the FPT file to the new directory FoxPro opened the database
successfully. However it informed me that the CDX file was missing, but
this is no big deal, the cdx could be copied or the index could be
rebuilt. The missing cdx file doesn't affect the integrity of the
database.

I'm fairly certain that CDBP doesn't write to referenced files so my
suspicion is that  your corrupted file might fall into the "Acts of
God" category. At least I hope so.

I'd be curious to hear if your corrupted file is a recurring problem.

Regards,

Sal



Date: 1993-12-06,22:43
From: Tim Bookhout 76660,2527
To: Sal Terillo 73730,630
Subject: Copying recipe fatality

Sal,

I had given up but decided to try copying the VP files to the "target"
directory and try one last time-- still no go. In theory, you could be
generating an output file to format on another machine, having no
Ventura file in use or even created. I wasn't optimistic...

A couple of additional notes: When I last tried to use the recipe
manager to copy, the DBF files were not corrupted. Perhaps you were
right and I should simply blame the first corruption on God-- although
I would think she would have better things to do than to tweak my DBF
files... <g>

As the DBF files were created by exporting them from Access, there's no
CDX files in use, although I even tried creating one to see if it
somehow would make a difference. In desparate times we all do foolish
things. Like when I lose something, I'll look in the most obvious
place, unsuccessfully, over and over! Like the fifth time it will
magically appear...

I did notice that the copy operation did NOT copy the J01 file and as
the offending message indicated "Failed to open index" I copied this
manually. Without the J01, DBP gave up with the "Failed..." message.
WITH, the J01 file, it crashed and burned altogether.

I can't afford to experiment with this particular RCP further since the
project is well underway and while it's a PITA, in this case I can
generate the output text and simply send this to the people formatting.

Some final thoughts: There are two linked DBF files in use, one with
product info, the other with company address info. Therein, somewhere,
the problem seems to exist. DBP doesn't like *something* I'm doing. The
feeling is mutual. Also, a SUBSTituted drive comes into play and while
inspection of the RCP file itself indicates no problems, I've had funky
things happen with SUBST.

When this sucker is done I'm going to start from scratch and try
building a simple RCP on one drive with two DBFs-- just to see if I can
get the thing to work!