TELECOM Digest Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:04:00 CDT Volume 14 : Issue 172 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson 38.4K Sync 5x5 Switch Box Sought (Daniel J. McCoy) Low vs. High Fiber Optics (Margaret Henderson) ADSL Information Needed (Louis Laborelli) Please Explain These Terms (vmatho@mason1.gmu.edu) True Voice Poem Wanted (Tom Ward) Sharing Modems on a Network (Mike McWhinney) Notice to AT&T Long Distance Customers (Paul Robinson) CO's and Disasters (Thomas Tengdin) SID Codes For All Cellular Systems (John Musselman) Non-Profit Needs Help Upgrading Phone System (Harold Hedelman) Consumer Market For PCS (Monte Hall) Hacking the Motorola Keypad Light (Don Montgomery) Looking For Good Ways to Move 1-20Mb Files Overnight (Peter Rowley) Information Wanted on PABX/PBX/Centrex (Richard S. Boswell) Information Wanted on Long-Distance Pricing Packages (Hjalmar Syversen) Need Technical Information on CPDP (Abnan Hafeez) NANP: Numbering Scheme? (Stan Schwartz) France's Departments (Anton Sherwood) 800-555-1212 Question (Lindy Williams) Unshielded Twisted Pair in Conduit? (Chris Plonski) Re: AT&T Cellular Privacy System (mcharry@cwc.com) Re: Please Explain the Term 'Steaming Terminal' (Dave Levenson) Re: International Free Numbers (Gregg Siegfried) Calling 911; Reporting Disabled Vehicles (Jonathan Loo) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and GEnie. Subscriptions are available at no charge to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson Associates of Skokie, Illinois USA. We provide telecom consultation services and long distance resale services including calling cards and 800 numbers. To reach us: Post Office Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690 or by phone at 708-329-0571 and fax at 708-329-0572. Email: ptownson@townson.com. ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. TELECOM Digest is gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom. It has no connection with the unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom.tech whose mailing list "Telecom-Tech Digest" shares archives resources at lcs.mit.edu for the convenience of users. Please *DO NOT* cross post articles between the groups. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: djmccoy@netcom.com (Daniel J. McCoy) Subject: 38.4K Sync 5x5 Switch Box Sought Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 15:11:26 GMT A coworker is looking for a piece of equipment that allows one to have a bank of ten modems or RS232 ports that can handle 38.4K synchronous links configured in a 5x5 matrix (see the figure below). In addition, it should be able to be configured remotely (via modem) and configure any particular path (ie: A1 to B5, A2 to B2, ect). Defaults should be used if something happens. This coworker says such equipment exists for asynchronous links and would like one capable of synchronous links. If you know of such a piece of equipment, it'd be more appreciated if you could e-mail the appropriate info (company, address, phone numbers, etc). +++++-A1 +++++-A2 Remote==+++++-A3 +++++-A4 +++++-A5 ||||| BBBBB 12345 Thanks, Daniel J. McCoy Internet : djmccoy@netcom.com or Daniel_J_McCoy@cup.portal.com Portal : Daniel J McCoy BIX: dmccoy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 12:02:38 EDT From: henderso@cshl.org (Margaret Henderson) Subject: Low vs. High Fiber Optics Please respond to me and not to the list. I do not belong to the list but I need your expert advice. I researched various lists and I felt this list could help me with this problem. Our laboratory is installing a fiber optic network to replace our very old, barely hanging on, network. Right now plans are for a "low density" network but several people recommend a "high density" network. We would like to know, from experience, what is the best to choose. We have over 300 computers on the network so far doing all sorts of scientific applications and there are definite plans for expansion. Please advise so I can back up the articles I have found. I would also appreciate any suggestions for articles in case I have missed something. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Margaret Henderson henderso@cshl.org Head of Library Services Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory 1 Bungtown Road Cold Spring Harbor, NY 11724 (516) 367-8493 ------------------------------ From: laborell@ina.fr (Louis LABORELLI) Subject: ADSL Information Needed Date: 8 Apr 1994 15:29:04 GMT Organization: INA, Institut National de l'Audiovisuel, Bry-sur-Marne, France Reply-To: laborell@ina.fr I would like to obtain some information on the ADSL technology for pushing up to 6 Mb/s on standard copper telephone lines. I haven't any pointer now. Thanks in advance, Louis Laborelli Institut National de l'Audiovisuel Departement de la Recherche 94366 Bry sur Marne Cedex, France Tel (33) (1) 49832009 , Fax (33) (1) 49832582 Email : laborell@ina.fr ------------------------------ From: vmatho@mason1.gmu.edu Subject: Please Explain These Terms Date: 8 Apr 1994 12:18:08 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA I was wondering if anyone knew what these terms meant: Locator Service Credit Adjustment Auth-Code Verification COS Override Traveling Classmark NAC-per bridge port/min NAC-Reservation/port Translation-per call In Stat Access-per call In Sel Access-per call Off-Net Information These are features to a point to point pricing manual and I don't know what they mean! If anyone could help me I would be most appreciative... Thanks in advance! Victoria ------------------------------ From: gaypanda@pinn.net (Tom Ward) Subject: True Voice Poem Wanted Date: 8 Apr 1994 15:58:43 GMT Organization: Pinnacle Online I am looking for the words of the AT&T TrueVoice poem you hear in the television ads. Does anyone have this information or can you help me aquire it? Thanks in advance!! Tom ------------------------------ From: ELJA inc Subject: Sharing Modems on a Network Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milw, WI (414) 241-5469 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 22:44:53 GMT Does anybody use any of the following products? Articom (Artisoft, Inc) Modem Assist Plus Netware Connect I am trying to use Telix for networks, but need a NASI driver or a INT14 redirector compatible with Novell Netware 3.12. These above products all provide network communication services for programs like TFN and others (Crosstalk, Procomm Plus LAN, Dynacomm, WinComm, etc.) If anybody knows of any pluses or minuses of these products, or use a *different* modem-sharing/redirector package, I would be glad to hear about it. Mike McWhinney Elja, Inc. tel: (414) 357-6771 FAX: (414) 357-9394 INTERNET: elja.inc@mixcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 19:16:49 EDT From: Paul Robinson Reply-To: Paul Robinson Subject: Notice to AT&T Long Distance Customers From an ad on Page D12 of the April 7 {Washington Post} NOTICE TO AT&T LONG DISTANCE CUSTOMERS On April 1, 1994, AT&T filed tariff revisions with the Federal Communications Commission to increase transport rates on international card and operator handled long distance calls. These rates will become effective on April 15, 1994. These revisions will affect international operator handled and card standard, discount and economy period rates to 21 countries/areas, with an average price increase of 6.4% for a ten-minute call to these countries/areas. The increase in transport prices applies to calls to and from the U.S. Mainland. The affected countries are: Argentina, Columbia, Ecuador, Egypt, Ghana, Greece, Guam, Guatemala, Haiti, Japan, Nicaragua, Panama, Phillipines, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts/Nevis, St. Vincent/Grens., Trinidad/Tobago, United Kingdom and Venezuela. In addition, AT&T filed tariff revisions with the Federal Communications Commission on April 4, 1994 to increase its interstate operator assisted sent-paid coin and coin person-to-person per minute rates. These changes will result in an overall increase of 0.79% for these calls. These revisions are scheduled to become effective on April 18, 1994. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 17:31:57 -0700 From: Thomas Tengdin Subject: CO's and Disasters I was at an earthquake disaster training session this week and a statement was made: The telephone company computers will connect some customers at a higher priority that others. Doctors, etc were mentioned. This is the first I have heard of calls being processed in any other way than first to finish dialing, first to be processed (more or less). Is there something in CO Class of Service? or other programming that gives "priority" service to a select class of lines? T3 ------------------------------ From: jcm@frank.nccom.com (John Musselman) Subject: SID Codes For All Cellular Systems Date: 7 Apr 1994 17:40:25 -0700 Organization: North County Communications, San Diego, California I am often curious when I am in other cities what that city's particular SID (System Identifcation) code is while I am there. I had a perfectly good reason for this a month ago ... I lived in Los Angeles for about two months. While I was there I was a PacTel Cellular (B system) customer. PacTel's coverage does not extend past Palm Springs while enroute on I-10 to Phoenix, AZ. LA Cellular covers about 50 or so miles east of Palm Springs to the Arizona border. I encountered something very frustrating. I attempted to place a call on LA Cellular (the A System in Los Angeles) when I had reached the point at which PacTel Cellular could no longer reach. Well, due to the fact that LA Cellular and PacTel are in the same market, they do not have a valid reason I guess to allow roaming on each other's systems. (I guess it would make sense for a phone that might be programmed with the correct NAM and the wrong SID to prevent the user from a month or so of roaming charges). Anyway, I attempted to place various calls -- Customer service and several local calls -- ALL WITHOUT LUCK, BUT the most frustrating part was: ::READ THIS:: 911 was blocked also!!! In a 50 mile part of Eastern California ... if you are a local Pactel L.A. Customer attempting to dial 911 ... you get a REORDER!!!! I spoke with Mike Kennedy (Vice Pres of Cust Svc) at LA Cellular who told me that must have been an error ... however in the process of researching the issue, he stopped answering questions and returning calls to me ... Does this mean that the limitations of LA Cellular (by NPA-NXX) also apply to 911 and their switch cannot make this exception? This problem STILL remains unsolved ... I plan on contacting several members of the media in L.A. to help ... Isn't it written that it is ILLEGAL to do this? (Block 911 Access) Anyways ... when I switched my NAM to 111-111-1111 it worked ... but who knows ... the next case may be limited by SID. Anyone have a list of ALL the valid SID's? jcm@nccom.com John C. Musselman, Systems Engineer ------------------------------ From: harold@futon.SFSU.EDU (Harold Hedelman) Subject: Non-Profit Needs Help Upgrading Phone System Date: 8 Apr 1994 04:20:51 GMT Organization: San Francisco State University Hi! The Center for Electronic Art is a non-profit school, and we have to save money as we upgrade our phone system for both office and Internet uses. We need some advice from experts. We need to have 20 inside lines as follows: > We'll only have six handsets, each accessing four lines; > Intercom and speakerphone on all sets, if possible; > Eleven lines to a computer lab (one line per computer); > Four lines to computer modems; > One line in waiting area for portable computers; > The inside lines might grow from 20 to 40 over the next year. We need eight outside lines as follows: > Four to the handsets; > Four to the computer modems; > The outside lines might grow to eight over the next year. We will be training people to install and configure modems on their PC's and our students will be calling a local extension to access our modem pool. We want these calls to not route through the local phone company, only through our inhouse phone system. We want the lab lines to be blocked from making outside calls. Voice mail would be nice, but we don't need a lot of it, or we could leave it out completely if it helps us save money. Call accounting is not needed. We're willing to use used equipment. We don't know what's out there, and will consider all kinds of options. The ideal would be donated equipment in exchange for tax deductions, with us paying reasonable installation and maintenance fees. If you can help, even with advice only, we'd be very grateful. Thanks, Harold Hedelman President Center for Electronic Art San Francisco Internet: harold@cea.edu Voice: 1 415 956 6500 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 00:06:12 EST From: Monte Hall Subject: Consumer Market For PCS I am curious as to whether any market research exists as to the viability of a consumer market for PCS services. The need for a PCS offering such as data services as an addition to voice is clearly there for business customers. But it seems that pricing for PCS voice and data services will need to be significantly lower than current cellular services in order for the consumer market to grow rapidly. The growth of a strong consumer market for PCS seems necessary to justify the high cost of the license, equipment, site leases, marketing , and so forth. But how many consumers really wish to carry a personal digital assistant with them at all times? If anyone has an educated opinion on this issue or can point me to some answers, I would appreciate it. James L. (Monte) Hall jhall3@mason1.gmu.edu 703 476-2691 ------------------------------ From: donrm@sr.hp.com (Don Montgomery) Subject: Hacking the Motorola Keypad Light Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 20:58:25 GMT Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) I have a Motorola Ultra Classic cellular phone, and was wondering if anyone on this forum knows if there is a way to program this beast so the keypad light stays on instead of timing out after eight seconds or so after last keypress. Motorola customer service says they don't think so, but enterprising designers can't resist putting backdoors into firmware to use up empty PROM space. Firmware on this phone appears to be the same as any of their more modern "Classic" series. Don Montgomery donrm@sr.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 17:17:17 -0400 From: rowley@phoenix.oise.on.ca (Peter Rowley) Subject: Looking For Good Ways to Move 1-20Mb Files Overnight I'm trying to come up with a plan for transmitting about 2-40Mb of data per week from schools to a central site and a limited amount of data (probably under 1Mb) back from the central site. The data will be generated by students and stored on a Mac for transmission. The central site is in Toronto Canada and has a good Internet connection. Initially, there will be around a dozen school sites but there may eventually be hundreds. I'm looking for low cost first and reliability second ... as long as the data makes it (wholly intact) within a day or so, that will probably be fine for now. The main choices appear to be: 1: 14.4K modems with late night phone calls direct to the central site, using either a discount carrier or a 1-800 number; 2: 14.4K modems to local access numbers that lead directly or indirectly to our site, via public data networks and/or online services (e.g. AOL) and/or Internet access (e.g. Well, Portal); 3: SLIP or PPP connections to the Internet; Choice 3 will certainly be much more expensive, maybe an order of magnitude I believe, but would offer a lot of other advantages of course. I'm really not sure which of 1 and 2 would be better; any words of wisdom? ISDN doesn't seem like it would be competitive with 14.4K modems at this point, but I could be convinced otherwise. X.25 could be part of solution 2. As for the details of any scheme, I will be contacting suppliers for recent figures; are there particular questions I should be sure to ask? Are there organizations that publish up-to-date comparative reports of services for moving data around? We'd be willing to pay several hundred dollars for a comprehensive comparative report. Peter Rowley, OISE, Toronto rowley@phoenix.oise.on.ca ------------------------------ From: rsb9883@zeus.tamu.edu (BOSWELL, RICHARD S) Subject: Information Wanted on PABX/PBX/Centrex Date: 8 Apr 1994 05:25:00 CDT Organization: Texas A&M University OpenVMScluster I am writing a term paper on PBX/PABX/Centrex respective advantages/ disadvantages. I have found several sources in trade/technical periodicals but find myself short of the type of information I am searching for. If you have any old posts on the subject or know where I can find that type of information I would greatly appreciate your help. Yours ect., Sid Boswell student at Texas A&M University ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 20:01:57 EDT From: hsyversen@BIX.com Subject: Information Wanted on Long-Distance Pricing Packages I am doing a comparative study on the packaging of long distance services for both business and residential subscribers. I am interested in price points and unique selling benefits, package naming, hidden disadvantages. If anyone else is interested I will be happy to e-mail compiled information or post it here if applicable. Please respond via e-mail to hsyversen@bix.com. Thanks for any assistance. Hjalmar Syversen hsyversen@bix.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 19:24:52 -0400 From: ahafeez@mason1.gmu.edu (Abnan Hafeez) Subject: Need Technical Information on CPDP. Can somebody provide me some information on CPDP? ------------------------------ From: stans@panix.com (Stan Schwartz) Subject: NANP: Numbering Scheme? Date: 8 Apr 1994 01:13:25 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Is there any rhyme or reason with which the new area codes are being assigned? (Those like 334 in Alabama). Wouldn't it make sense to at least relate them back to the locality by tying them into the letters on the keypad? (692, for example for NYC, New York City). Just a thought ... Stan [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And not a bad idea, actually. Some large national private networks do that such as Unitel, the United Airlines telephone network which covers the USA and anywhere United Airlines goes to. From their network for example, 732-xxxx reaches extension xxxx at the SEAttle airport. 673 is ORD, which means O'Hare, here in Chicago, and so forth. Makes sense to me. PAT] ------------------------------ From: dasher@netcom.com (Anton Sherwood) Subject: France's Departments Organization: Bureau of Making Sure You Eat Your Vegetables Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 05:42:27 GMT In article , Jack Hamilton wrote: > If I were in charge of France Telecom, I'd probably use the department > number plus a third digit for overlays and very large departments. Good idea! > (A department is roughly equivalent to a state or province in North > America. Postal codes start with the department number.) More like a county, I'd say, both in size and in degree of independence. Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DASher@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Lindy Williams Subject: 555-1212 question Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:03:24 GMT I subscribe to AT&T long distance. I called 800/555-1212 to get a firm's 800 number and was told they didn't have one. Later on it talking to the firm, they gave me their 800 number. I told them that I had tried to get it from the phone company and couldn't. They asked me who was my long distance company and proceded to tell me they were with Sprint and an AT&T information operator wouldn't have their 800 number. Is this correct? Lindy Williams willi087@maroon.tc.umn.edu [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yes and no. 800-555-1212 is not run by AT&T. It is managed on a day to day basis by Southwestern Bell Telephone Company under a contract with (I think) Bellcore. It is physically lo- cated in St. Louis, or maybe East St. Louis, IL ... down there someplace. Anyone with an 800 number is entitled to be listed with 800-555-1212. Unlike regular phone numbers where the default is to be listed and non-pub numbers having an additional fee, with 800 the opposite is true. With 800, non-pub listings are free and listings with 555-1212 cost money -- several dollars per month in fact. 555-1212 should not be con- fused with the various paper directories published by carriers. AT&T lists only their own 800 subscribers in their directory; ditto Sprint has an 800 directory I think (not certain) as does MCI. In whatever resources the your carrier has of its own, 800 numbers will probably be listed at no charge (or for some fee) as a routine thing. But if you wish to have your 800 number listed in the 555-1212 database, then your carrier -- whoever that might be -- has to submit it to the database and pay the monthly fee which is then in turn billed to you. Not many people bother with it where 'personal 800 numbers' are concerned; no one wants to bother getting a bunch of curiosity seekers calling them asking about their number -- yes, people do that, they go through the AT&T paper directory for example and call at random just to snoop around -- and besides, my 800 number as an example costs me $4-5 per month; the carrier said a listing with 800-555-1212 would cost me another $12 per month -- twice the cost of the number itself! So I imagine the firm you are dealing with might have been hedging a little in what they told you. They probably did not want the additional expense of a listing and the large number of idle time- and money-wasting calls that come with it. Your choice of long distance carrier or the firm's choice of 800 service provider has nothing to do with what you get when you call 800-555-1212. PAT] ------------------------------ From: cplonski@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu (Chris Plonski) Subject: Unshielded Twisted Pair in Conduit? Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 23:49:16 GMT Organization: University of Idaho Media Center I have heard that if you run Category 5 UTP in EMT conduit that it becomes shielded and therefore changes its bandwidth specifications. Is there any research/papers/personal experience to confirm or deny these allegations? We are starting to put alot of cat 5 cable into our campus and I need to know if this will limit running at 100Mb/s in the future. Please post or E-mail me with any info. Thanks, Chris Plonski ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 09:52:28 EDT From: mcharry@cwc.com (McHarry) Subject: Re: AT&T Cellular Privacy System David Arneke wrote regarding the AT&T Cellular Privacy System: > This is the strongest scrambling algorithm available > for handheld, transportable and mobile cellular subscriber equipment. This appears somewhat disingenuous -- there are cellular STU-IIIs available. The commercial versions use DES encryption. Granted, you need units at both ends of the link. I have only seen the units as mobiles and transportables. They are likely too large to build as handhelds. Nevertheless, to render Arneke's claim true, either one has to hold that encryption is different from scrambling, or to strongly construe the 'and' clause to take advantage of the lack of DES handhelds. ------------------------------ From: dave@westmark.com (Dave Levenson) Subject: Re: Please Explain the Term 'Steaming Terminal' Reply-To: dave@westmark.com Organization: Westmark, Inc. Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 02:49:05 GMT wjhalv1@pacbell.com writes: > 2. In a LAN: > Say your ethernet machine has a problem -- maybe it continually > transmits ICMP packets because its PING code is buggy -- so it just > "babbles databits" onto the LAN. How does Ethernet deal with this by > itself? Ultimately somebody has to figure out which machine is > causing the problem and turn the machine off. Some ethernet equipment uses twisted pair and an active hub. This equipment, called 10BaseT, connects an individual drop line between the hub and each network node. Some hubs are capable of detecting this fault, and disabling the defective node without interrupting communications between other nodes. Our AT&T StarLAN hubs have a 'jabber alarm' LED associated with each tap, to indicate that the tap has been disabled in this manner. Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave Stirling, NJ, USA Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 07:12:00 PDT From: grs@claircom.com (Gregg Siegfried) Subject: Re: International Free Numbers Organization: Claircom Communications, L.P. In article was written: > What do you do when you want to call Britain from America (or vice > versa) and all you have is an 800 number? I'd happily pay the toll, > but last time I tried it the call was simply refused. I'm not sure about the Britain from America case, but to call a US 800 number from the UK, one can simply use USA direct, 0800-89-0011. This probably requires an AT&T calling card. Collect calling is also available, but I'm not sure whether that works to 800 numbers. I'm headed to Britain on Sunday ... I'll try a collect call to our 800 number while I'm there. Gregg Siegfried grs@claircom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:56:19 -0500 From: Jonathan Subject: Calling 911; Reporting Disabled Vehicles I read in the TELECOM Digest: > In Seattle WA, the 911 dispatchers have said that they often receive > up to 30 calls from cellular phone users when an accident occurs on a > major highway. This results in a massive overload of the 911 system. > The result is that US West Cellular announced last winter that they > would begin charging 50 cents for each 911 call, in addition to > airtime charges, to discourage overuse of the system and to help fund > additional 911 dispatchers to answer the phone. Interesting. I thought that sometimes these accidents go unreported. In the future maybe I will ignore major accidents. Actually you have made a good argument for two things: (1) Increase the total number of dispatchers, 911 trunks, etc. drastically and (2) fund this partly by charging for calls to 911 from cellular telephones. If you can afford a cellular telephone then you can afford to pay $10 for each 911 call. I also read: > Your state may wish that you report motorists with disabled vehicles > along freeways. In general: I report disabled vehicles along regular roads but not along freeways. The rationale for this is that there are too many disabled vehicles along freeways, and problems on regular roads are less likely to already have been reported. Also, the problem with disabled vehicles is that you don't know what actually is happening. A vehicle sitting by the side of the road may be: illegally parked; disabled because of mechanical failure; disabled because of driver illness; stopped so that the driver can sleep; stopped because the driver is lost; etc. In general, along freeways I would report it to a nearby state police barracks if the driver appears to be ill (which often happens when the driver is merely sleeping!) or if there appears to be some other type of problem (smoke coming from under the hood) or if the driver is actively trying to get help or leaning on the horn, flashing headlights, etc. If there are any police from Maryland reading this, then please advise me on the correct way to deal with various problems that occur along highways. Jonathan D. Loo ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V14 #172 ****************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------