TELECOM Digest Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:47:00 CDT Volume 14 : Issue 302 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson ITU-TSS vs. ANSI (Stephen Williams) Bilingual Telephone Numbers? (Andrew C. Green) Satellite Phone Wanted (John Biederstedt) Who's That Voice? (Jeffrey W. McKeough) Information Wanted on `Set-Top Box' (Lim JaiJin) Motorola Digital Cellular Phone (Ian Daniel Plotkin) Cellular Phones and Lightning (Shawn Gordhamer) Cellular Phone and Tower Handshaking (Shawn Gordhamer) Pointers to Information on Cable Modem Details (Steve Cogorno) Information on Transponders and Cable Network Development (Kevin Apperson) Need 300 mSec Phone Line Delay For Modem Testing (Dave Mc Mahan) 17.5 No-Surcharge Travel Service (Van Hefner) Info: Telephone Country/Area Codes: Anywhere:by Gopher|FTP (Monty Solomon) MS-Windows based Centrex Attendant Console (Robert J. Kinder) Testing Tool For Tele-Software Wanted (Filip Vertommen) SMR Licensees Wanted (Alex Cena) Hungarian Portables (Robert Scott) Modems for Kenya (Jason M. Githeko) Non-Tariffed Long Distance Telecommunications Carriers (Aaron Woolfson) GSM Coverage of Indonesia? (Ben Anderson) Sending Cross-Stitch by Telegraph: Did Anyone Ever do it? (Peter Rukavina) Phone Scrambler, Caller ID Information (John Lundgren) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and GEnie. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available at no charge to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 708-329-0571 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. ************************************************************************* * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-* * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************* Additionally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephenw@Newbridge.COM (Stephen Williams) Subject: ITU-TSS vs. ANSI Reply-To: stephenw@Newbridge.COM Organization: Newbridge Networks Corporation Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:08:43 -0400 I am having trouble getting any definitive answers on the differences between the ITU-TSS and ANSI specifications for Frame Relay, etc. ANSI T1.602 says that it is identical to ITU-T's Q.920/921 combined. Fine. ANSI T1.617 says that it is similar to Q.933 and an extension to Q.922. And ANSI T1.618 says that it is similar to Q.922 and an extension to Q.921. It's those words "similar" that I don't like. What ARE the similarities, and differences? Are there any? I have never been able to figure this out by looking at any documentation, the ATM-FAQ, RFC 1490, etc. IE: If I want to implement the data link layer for frame relay, do I need to even look at the ANSI specs? Thanks, Stephen Williams (Please respond by e-mail: stephenw@newbridge.com) ------------------------------ From: Andrew C. Green Subject: Bilingual Telephone Numbers? Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:40:07 CDT Was waiting in line at the downtown Walgreen's this morning, and noticed a Caller Name and Number ID box on prominent display. The big marketing triumph which warranted its $59.99 price was trumpeted in a large, bilingual (English and Spanish) sticker on the box: "BILINGUAL NAME AND NUMBER DISPLAY!" Now, perhaps I'm missing something here, but I must admit I don't know how I would translate "Green, Andrew C." and "(312) 266-xxxx" into Spanish without the assistance of this thing. Clearly a bargain at twice the price! Andrew C. Green Datalogics, Inc. Internet: acg@dlogics.com 441 W. Huron Chicago, IL 60610-3498 ------------------------------ From: John@VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU Subject: Satellite Phone Wanted Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:52:57 -0600 Organization: Mankato State University Is there a phone on the market that can use a satellite (not a cell) to communicate? Some friends and I want to take a trip to where there are no phones (obviously) and no cells. We thought maybe we could rent a satellite phone, if possible. John Biederstedt John@VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU Mankato State University Mankato, MN 56002 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Wouldn't the ship to shore (or high seas) service work out in John's case? I am thinking of Marisat or Maristat? Can you get portable phones to carry around which use that service? PAT] ------------------------------ From: jwm@student.umass.edu (Jeffrey W. McKeough) Subject: Who's That Voice? Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 04:26:25 After reading an interesting discussion in the archives about Jane Barbe, the former voice of the Bell System, the voice of the time in several cities, and of many Octel systems (at least those that have not upgraded to a Marsha Graham software release), I was wondering if anyone has any information about yet another of those famous voices. The woman in question has done many recordings including the ubiquitous AT&T carrier identification chime and calling card auto attendant, the EasyReach voice prompts, RBOC recordings (including NYNEX's return call/repeat call prompts, and the new "You must dial 1+ the area code intercepts). I've always found it interesting to be able to put a name with a voice, so I thought I'd ask. Jeffrey W. McKeough jwm@student.umass.edu ------------------------------ From: jjin@olive.snu.ac.kr (Lim JaiJin) Subject: Information Wanted on 'Set-Top Box' Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 09:09:07 GMT Hi, everyone ! Is there anyone or anysite from whom or where I can get in contact with some informations about set-top box used in VOD (Video-On-Demand) as a customer information appliance like VCR ? Currently I'm studying the OS of set-top box. I'd like to know `OS requirements' of set-top box. I'd like to know why `real-time OS' is requred for set-top box. Any hints and notices would be greatly appreciated. NAME: Lim, Jai-jin EMAIL: jjin@olive.snu.ac.kr ADDRESS: Department of Computer Science & Statistics, Seoul National University, Sinlim-Dong, Gwanak-Ku, Seoul, 151-742, Republic Of Korea PHONE: +82-02-880-6582 FAX: +82-02-871-4912 ------------------------------ From: idp3286@hertz.njit.edu (Ian Daniel Plotkin) Subject: Motorola Digital Cellular Phone Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, New Jersey Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:47:45 GMT Does anyone have any experience with Motorola's new Digital flip-fone? Is digital cellular as widespread as analog yet? The local carrier here in central NJ is Comcast/CellularOne. Does anyone know if NJ is covered by a digital network? While the other (analog) flipfones go for around $50 /w signon deal, is it worth it at this point in time to shell out the $300 or so (/w signon deal) for the digital phone? Any info would be appreciated! Thanks, Ian Daniel Plotkin idp3286@hertz.njit.edu (201)824-4701 (800)333-5729 x110 (908)246-3365 ------------------------------ From: shawnlg@netcom.com (Shawn Gordhamer) Subject: Cellular Phones and Lightning Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 03:04:33 GMT Someone told me that in a lightning storm, lightning can follow the radio waves given out by your cellular phone. I assume this is because the air is more ionized where the waves are strong. Is this true? Is it unsafe to use a handheld cellular phone in a lightning storm? I'm not talking about a mobile phone with a tall antenna. Shawn Gordhamer shawnlg@netcom.com Rochester, Minnesota USA ------------------------------ From: shawnlg@netcom.com (Shawn Gordhamer) Subject: Cellular Phone and Tower Handshaking Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 03:26:00 GMT I can tell when my cellular phone talks to the tower, because my tape player near it slows down and buzzes loudly whenever my phone transmits. Therefore, I know about how often my phone and the towers communicate when the phone is on but not being used. Sometimes when I turn my phone on, it doesn't bother talking to the tower at all. Sometimes, it transmits for a short period of time. But it usually does this once and not at set intervals. With this in mind, I have come up with the following theory about how a phone and tower keep track of each other. Someone please let me know if there is any truth in this. When you turn on a cellular phone, it knows what tower is nearest it. Each tower must have some unique ID so that your phone knows if it approaches a different tower. A tower does not ask a phone if it is there. Instead, the phone tells the tower it is there. Thus, if I turn on my phone for the first time and it is near tower A, it will tell tower A that it is near it. Tower A then assumes, until the cellular network tells it differently, that my phone is still near it. I can turn off my phone and turn it back on. It has in its memory the tower it last talked to. Thus, if I turn it off and back on, if it still picks up tower A as the strongest, it won't even tell tower A it is there again. It assumes that tower A still thinks it is there. There must be some timeout value. If I left my phone off for a year, it would probably tell tower A it was back when turned on. When the phone is on and not being used, it continually checks the different frequencies of the towers. If I move closer to tower B, my phone, and not the tower, realizes this. My phone then tells tower B it is there. Tower B is now the one that will deal with my phone, and the cellular network will tell tower A that I'm gone. When actually talking on my phone, the towers themselves must monitor my signal strength. I can hear my phone change frequencies quite often while I talk, even when I am just pasing around one room. The phone never transmits tower changes that often when it is not being used. Do I have this basically right? Also, why does my phone change frequencies so often? I can tell because the conversation cuts out for about 1/4 second and one or the other party usually misses a word in the conversation. Is this because I am between two towers and they can't decide who gets me? Or is this to thwart scanning by moving my conversation all over the frequency band? Either way, it's quite annoying, and I'd prefer the scan risk then always being cut off while my phone changes frequencies. Thanks for any info. Shawn Gordhamer shawnlg@netcom.com Rochester, Minnesota USA [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I think what is happening is that the tower you were on has decided it is time to pass you on to the next tower, but the next tower has no channels available at that precise moment and it tells the first tower to continue holding you as long as possible. It is not so much a question of deciding who gets your call as it is finding a vacant channel on the tower you should be with. If it has nothing available for a few seconds or a minute even though logically you are in its range, then the earlier tower has to keep holding you, and when it can do so no longer then it has to give your call to some tower somewhere, even if the most likely one (nearest you, getting your signal the strongest) has no room for you. So, it then finds some tower someplace which can hear you at least a little better than it can and hands off your call if possible, otherwise you simply get dropped. PAT] ------------------------------ From: cogorno@netcom.com (Steve Cogorno) Subject: Pointers to Information on Cable Modem Details Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 00:07:40 PDT Michael S. Pontecorvo said: > I am looking for information on cable modems. How the technology > works, baud rates, error recovery, etc. Any pointers would be helpful. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: What is a 'cable modem'? PAT] A cable modem is a device that transmits/receives data over two-way cable lines (cable as in cable TV). Steve cogorno@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: kap@netcom.com (Kevin D. Apperson) Subject: Information on Transponders and Cable Network Development Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 03:24:07 GMT When is it ever better to lease than purchase a transponder when starting a cable channel? I really appreciate any references on this, and related information. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: mcmahan@netcom.com (Dave Mc Mahan) Subject: Need 300 mSec phone line delay for modem testing Organization: Dave McMahan @ NetCom Services Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 06:16:00 GMT I need to test a product that contains a modem. One of the requirements is that it work over a satellite. This requirement can be tested if we use a delay line between modems that has up to 300 milliseconds of delay in each direction. 1) The quality of the delayed signal must be such that a 2400 baud modem is able to operate over it. 2) Ideally, the delay would be adjustable over the range of 200 milliseconds to 300 milliseconds. If it is fixed, I think we can live with it. 3) The delay equipment must have the necessary 2-to-4 wire conversion circuitry to convert from telco signal to whatever is required internally by the delay. Ideally, we would just plug in an RJ-11 jack to obtain the desired delay. 4) Dialing and ringing via standard telco methods is not required. All I'm looking for is the delay function that is accessible via RJ-11 jacks. We are not looking to purchase this piece of test gear. We would like to rent it instead. If you know of a company that makes this type of equipment or one that rents it, please let me know. In the interests of brevity, please respond via e-mail directly to the poster at: mcmahan@netcom.com Dave McMahan mcmahan@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: VANTEK@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 03:29:10 EDT Subject: 17.5 No-Surcharge Travel Service > The article was quite brief, but it seemed to indicate that ATN was > offering a Calling Card service charging 17.5 cents per minute DAY > rate, which is pretty good compared to the 23 cents which I am paying > now. > There is no surcharge associated with this service, and they didn't > mention any monthly fees. (Although maybe there are - I'll see when I > get their literature.) ATN doesn't have any monthly fees for their calling card. And yes, the 17.5 cents per minute is accurate. As a matter of fact, they will also provide you with your own personal (800) number (residential, or business) for $.18/min., also with no minimums, and no monthly fees. They just recently added a 'message service' to their calling card, which will deliver a recorded voice message to any number you dial that is busy, or has no answer. The actual long-distance service is provided by LDDS/MetroMedia. > I don't know if they offer six-second billing as does ConTelCom Yes, all billing for the calling card and (800) service uses six second incriments (30 sec. minimum). ATN resells long distance services for LDDS, MCI, AT&T, etc. If you'd like any free applications, or further info on the company you can also e-mail me. ATN is based in Buffalo, NY and I'm currently contracted with them to market their commercial and residential services. Van Hefner VANTEK Communications vantek@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Monty Solomon Subject: Information: Telephone Country/Area Codes: Anywhere:by Gopher|FTP Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 03:12:51 GMT Passed along FYI: From: jayarama@chaph.usc.edu (Prakash Jayaraman) Newsgroups: comp.archives Subject: [soc.culture.tamil] INFO: telephone country/area codes:anywhere: by go pher|ftp. Followup-To: poster Date: 15 Jun 1994 15:53:27 +0200 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Archive-Name: auto/soc.culture.tamil/INFO-telephone-country-area-codes-anywhere-by-gopher-ftpp Hi, Telephone Country codes/area codes are available through gopher or ftp. The gopher path that I went through was, Gopher (USC, LA client) Other gophers Gopher by subject Gopher by subject from Rice university Geography Telephone country /area codes Telephone country/area codes from U.of.Oregon search for country code/area code U need to specify the place to get the country/area code. Spelling is a problem. (I searched for Trichy, Tiruchy, Tiruchirappalli and Tiruchirapalli in vain. Tiruchirappally is there. :) Even places like Somarasampettai, Tirupparaaiththurai have been listed. There are two 'Hyderabad's. One in India and another in Pakistan. Both Indian Salem and American Salem are reported when u search for 'salem') (README file has some more info.) If u can't find out the area code by searching (because of wrong spelling), use ftp. README file can be read through Gopher. Each zone has been given a number. For example South Asia has been given the number 9. Download the corresponding file by ftp in the following site. (You can do it through gopher again.) The ftp site is: lcs.mit.edu:/telecom-archives/country-codes There is a file for each zone. Each is a .Z file. 'uncompress' the file u downloaded and load it in emacs editor. Now do a search. It is easy now. :) Hope it helps. _J._Prakash [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well, I don't know *where* this fellow is getting the country code files (which started out in the Telecom Archives) but as I have them posted they are *not* .Z or compressed files. They are straight ASCII text as filed in the public directory he mentions above. Carl Moore and David Leibold maintain this part of the Archives, and have for a few years now. PAT] ------------------------------ From: rkinder@gate.net (Robert J. Kinder) Subject: MS-Windows based Centrex Attendant Console Date: 28 Jun 1994 13:00:49 GMT I am searching for an MS-Windows based Centrex Attendant Console. Especially one which uses ISDN as the interface to the switch. Does anyone know if this is available? Thanks! Robert Kinder rkinder@gate.net Software Engineer Siemens Stromberg-Carlson Boca Raton, Florida ------------------------------ From: filipv@arti.vub.ac.be (Filip Vertommen) Subject: Testing Tool For Tele-Software Wanted Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:11:15 GMT Organization: VUB AI-LAB We are a medium sized company in Belgium. We have developed tele-software for our customers. We are currently looking for a testing and monitoring tool: this tool should allow us to control this tele-service from a customer's point of view and to test new developments in this area before bringing them to our customers. The tool should be able to: 1. easily register test-flows and the wanted results: in fact to simulate a customer 2. make comparisons between expected and real results As the software should be able to make telephone-calls as well as connection through a LAN, we think that a PC-program (running in MS-Windows(?)) would be the best solution. Does anyone know of such a program or does anyone have other suggestions? We are willing to pay a reasonable price for such a package. You can contact us by phone (Belgium: +32.2.422.75.29, Mr. Vertommen) or by E-mail (filipv@arti.vub.ac.be). Thank you, it would help us a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 07:27:09 EST From: Alex Cena Subject: SMRs Licensees Wanted Can anyone supply me with a good source to locate SMR licensees in foreign markets? Alex M. Cena, Lehman Brothers, acena@lehman.com ------------------------------ From: rbs@cs.city.ac.uk (Robert Scott) Subject: Hungarian Portables Date: 28 Jun 1994 16:59:05 GMT Organization: Computer Science Dept, City University, London Reply-To: rbs@cs.city.ac.uk I noticed that quite a lot of people in Hungary have portable phones, maybe even approaching the percentage per population as in the UK (pure speculation from watching posers with portables on the street). Apparantly people are turning to portables because it still takes 10 years to get a phoneline installed in Hungary (unless you are a new convertable currency earning company). I was thinking that it might be handy to be able to roam between Hungary and the UK. Does anyone know anything about such roaming? It looked to me like many of the phones were GSM900 type with the smart card. Rob Scott, City University, London ------------------------------ From: githeko@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason M. Githeko) Subject: Modems For Kenya Date: 28 Jun 1994 21:06:48 GMT Organization: University of Illinois I am part of an effort to promote the use of simple computer networks to overcome the great difficulties that people in Kenya (and Africa in general) have in acquiring information. A number of sel-help organizations are involved in the effort including the Kenya Association for the Advancement of Computer Technolgy (KAACT) to which I belong. We appeal to anyone interested to help with procurement of modems (2400 to 9600 baud external) which are badly needed but not affordable by the health and educational institutions we seek to help. Modems may be new or used. You may contact me for further info regarding this effort. Thanks. Jason M. Githeko University of Illinois 1310 S. 6th, #345 Champaign, IL 61820 e-mail: githeko@uiuc.edu ------------------------------ From: awoolfso@uop.edu (Aaron Woolfson) Subject: Non-Tariffed Long Distance Telecommunications Carriers Date: 28 Jun 1994 04:26:28 -0700 Organization: University of the Pacific I would like to discuss SLAMMING, and ask for your help to help us stop it. Long Distance Carriers, just like consumers, DO NOT like having subscribers SLAMMED to their networks. It is generally the work of UNTARIFFED resellers who work on Commission and Flat-Fee per account only, not the work of fully tariffed Long Distance Carriers. SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SLAMMED, IN FACT, that I thought I would address this problem and ask for your assistance in helping solve it. Delta Telecommunications, based in Stockton, California, has recently submitted all of the respective paperwork to become a fully tariffed long distance telephone carrier to handle calls within the State of California. A certain carrier based in Hawaii, which I will not mention for fear of being sued for slander, has boxes in almost every establishment here in Stockton, California, advertising "Win a new Car!" What people who enter don't realize is the small text on THE BACK and on the bottom which says that WilTel will become the primary carrier. I phoned the president of the company and asked them if they were tariffed. They said "no" and that they just get a percentage from WilTel on billings. This would appear to a lot of people as "slamming". I called the Public Utilities Commission and asked them. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SIGNING UP SUBSCRIBERS WITHIN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND YOU ARE A SEPARATE ENTITY FROM THE RESPECTIVE CARRIER, THEN YOU MUST FILE A TARIFF. UNLESS, HOWEVER, YOU ARE JUST AN AGENT REPRESENTING THE RESPECTIVE TARIFFED CARRIER AND ARE OPERATING UNDER THEIR TARIFF. I.E. Phoenix Network D.B.A. Office Depot Communications. This is fine and legal. But ABC Resellers slamming subscribers to WilTel, Sprint, or AT&T is NOT fine. IF anyone has any questions regarding the technicalities of California Public Utilities Code or any of the procedures which Carriers must go through to become Tariffed, please call the California State Public Utilities Commission. IF anyone has a complaint, according to Joe McIlvane of the California Public Utilities Commission; the commission takes it very seriously. PLEASE complain if you get SLAMMED. ------------------------------ From: ben@pipkin.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ben Anderson) Subject: GSM Coverage of Indonesia? Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:28:49 GMT Reply-To: B.Anderson@loughborough.ac.uk Organization: Loughborough University of Technology Hello, Does anyone know if GSM covers parts of Indonesia - specifically southern Sumatra. Or is it just a European service? Thanks, Ben Anderson LUTCHI Research Centre Department of Computer Studies Loughborough University Loughborough Leicestershire UK B.Anderson@lut.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: Peter Rukavina Subject: Sending cross-stitch by telegraph: did anyone ever do it? Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 09:48:52 +0100 As part of a "what is digital information, anyway?" spot for local radio I put together, I used the process of creating a cross-stitch pattern from a photograph -- essentially, you lay a grid on tracing paper over top and fill in the 'black' squares with an 'X' and leave the 'white' squares blank -- as an example of digitizing a picture. Earlier I had used the example of Morse Code as an example of the same sort of thing applied to text. It occured to me that "in the old days" it would have been possible to send a cross-stitch pattern (or any sort of similar "digitized picture") by telegraph just by using a 'dash' to represent an 'X' and a 'dot' to represent a 'blank.' Does anyone know whether anything like this was ever actually done? Peter ------------------------------ From: jlundgre@ohlone.kn.PacBell.COM (John Lundgren) Subject: Phone Scrambler, Caller ID Information Date: 28 Jun 94 09:40:01 GMT Organization: Pacific Bell Knowledge Network I found a couple items of interest. Sorry about the blatant commercialism. TELEPHONE CALL SCRAMBLER from Vol 29 Supplement & Price List Manufacturer: TT Systems * Intercepts incoming calls with a synthesized voice message asking for secret code. * Auto disconnect when code is not entered * Three digit secret code is easily programmed by user between 000 and 999 * One button on/off control * LED allows user to see if incoming calls are being processed * Does not effect outgoing calls. * Simply plugs into telephone jack and AC outlet. Product No. TT-PS1000, Price: $79.83 Also many other catalog items available. Such as: Northern Telecom NT-XT Caller ID module $15.99, NT XT+ $18.97 Tele-Com Products, Inc. 1070 Hamilton Rd. Duarte, CA 91010 USA (800) 888-7466 / (818) 303-1183 Judi Lomas X413 FAX (818) 358-8485 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Oh, don't worry about commercializing the net ... I do it all the time :) ... trouble is, the folks who complain about it had better hope -- they should be so lucky -- that my feeble little 'commercials' in the past are the worst it gets; but I don't think so. You should see all the stuff I am junking unused these days if you want to see what 'commercializing the net' is all about. It comes through heavily some days. Farewell to Usenet as we knew it ... :( PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V14 #302 ******************************