Archive-name: celtic-music.faq Last Modified: Tue Dec 13 18:21:43 GMT 1994 Version: 1.1 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS : REC.MUSIC.CELTIC ============================================= (comments and suggestions: pjmu@pcmail.nerc-bas.ac.uk) This document attempts to answer the questions which are asked on a weekly basis in the REC.MUSIC.CELTIC newsgroup. Please read this before posting a query into the group, as your question may already have been answered. At this time, I know of no archive site for the R.M.C. postings. If anyone has an archive, or would be willing to set one up, please let me know and I'll mention it in the FAQ. This document is a prettified, tidied and expanded version of the Archive sources listing produced by Gerard Manning (ceolas@celtic.stanford.edu). It will be posted automatically every Monday. The increased frequency is due to the increase in requests which are covered in the FAQ. Changes from the previous version are marked with a * in the first column. Contents ======== 1.0 Introduction 1.1 What is REC.MUSIC.CELTIC (R.M.C.)? 1.2 What is the difference between REC.MUSIC.CELTIC and REC.MUSIC.FOLK? 1.3 How is "Celtic" pronounced? 1.4 How is "Gaelic" pronounced? 2.0 Getting advice 2.1 I like X, what other bands would you recommend? 2.2 I have X, Y and Z from band W. What other albums should I buy? 2.3 I love instrument X - which bands use it, and on which albums? * 2.4 How do I get information/recordings/other about/by band X? 3.0 On-line Information 3.1 The All Music Guide 3.2 The Digital Tradition 3.3 Music archives at UWP 3.4 Celtic Archive at Stanford 3.5 Electronic Dirty Linen 3.6 St. Olaf Tune Index 3.7 The Living Tradition 3.8 Richard Robinson's Tunebook * 3.9 New England Folk Concert Calendar 3.10 Other sites 3.11 Mailing Lists 4.0 Ordering recordings 4.1 Mail order/phone * 4.2 On the Internet 4.3 General advice on mail order 5.0 Favourite questions 5.1 Is Enya related to Clannad? 5.2 Which part of Ireland are Capercaillie from, and which part of Scotland are Altan from? 5.3 Is Enya dead? * 5.4 When is the Clan Alba album coming out? * 5.5 Is there a translation of by Clannad? 6.0 Celtic Music radio shows 6.1 UK 6.2 USA & Canada 6.3 Elsewhere 7.0 Acknowledgements ================================================================= 1.0 Introduction 1.1 What is REC.MUSIC.CELTIC (R.M.C.)? The REC.MUSIC.CELTIC charter states: REC.MUSIC.CELTIC is an unmoderated forum for the discussion of all issues relating to Celtic music. Generally understood, "Celtic music" refers to the folk musics of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, (Spanish) Galicia, Cornwall, the Isle of Man, and certain parts of Canada (esp.Newfoundland/Cape Breton), as well as more recent musical styles (i.e. rock, jazz, new age) that draw heavily from these folk traditions. It should be understood, though, that not all musicians who hail from Ireland/Scotland/ Wales/Brittany/etc. necessarily play Celtic music. Celtic music is not defined by the passport, ancestry, or place of origin of the musicans, but by the sound and the feel of the music itself. Welcome topics on rec.music. celtic include (but are by no means limited to), the discussion of artists, songs, and recordings; the discussion of instruments frequently used in Celtic music; the discussion of festivals and concerts of Celtic music; the discussion of bars, pubs, and nightclubs that regularly feature Celtic music; the discussion of stores and record companies that specialize in Celtic music; and musicological discussion of the history, the influences, and the characteristics of Celtic music. Although it is not, strictly speaking, "Celtic," the traditional music of England is also a welcome topic of discussion in rec.music.celtic, due to the great overlap (in terms of both musical history and audience interest) between it and other forms of Celtic music. 1.2 What is the difference between REC.MUSIC.CELTIC and REC.MUSIC.FOLK? REC.MUSIC.CELTIC is a place for the discussion of both traditional and modern forms of Celtic music, so as to enable the discussion of Celtic folk music, Celtic rock, and Celtic new-age, in the same group. The instigator (Jim Chokey) and a number other posters thought there should be a place where one could talk about The Clancy Brothers, Clannad, Enya, Alan Stivell, Boiled in Lead, the Pogues, Patrick Ball, Mary Black, Runrig, etc., all in one place. Rec.music.folk was a fine place to talk about the traditional Celtic music, but the more rockish stuff and the more new- agey stuff wasn't really welcome there. The purpose of rec.music.celtic to create a group where *all* forms of Celtic and Celtic-influenced music could be discussed. That's why it's called rec.music.celtic and not rec.music.folk.celtic. 1.3 How is "Celtic" pronounced? If you are talking about the newsgroup, the people, the language, art, culture, etc, then it is with a hard C (as in K - Keltic). The only exception is a soccer team in Glasgow, and a basketball team in Boston who pronounce it with a soft C (Seltic), because they were/are mainly referred to by English speakers. The Celtic languages (Gaelic, Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Breton) have no soft C (they use S instead), and so would not pronounce "Celtic" in that way. 1.4 How is "Gaelic" pronounced? In Ireland, as "Gaylic" (I'm useless with phonetic spellings, and so are most of the people who read this group), but in Scotland as "Gallic". The languages are similar, and come from a common source, but 1200 years apart has modified things a little....(although it is still possible to understand one if you know the other, given a little effort). 2.0 Getting advice 2.1 I like X, what other bands would you recommend? Questions like this appear on a regular basis. While it is one way to broaden your collection and your tastes, you may find that several other people have asked similar questions in the recent past. It is generally better to listen to live music, or to listen to other people's recordings than to take advice and buy something you have never heard. Radio shows are also a good bet, as you can sample all sorts of bands without having to pay for it. If you are willing to pay hard cash on a whim, you may also like to buy an album which is talked about on the group without hearing it, on the basis that if everyone likes it then it can't be too bad. See also 3.1 2.2 I have X, Y and Z from band W. What other albums should I buy? Again, it is better to listen to someone else's copy and then decide. If you can't do that, then you are in the same position as everyone else when a new release hits the streets - if you like the band, buy it and see... This applies equally well to older recordings. See also 3.1, where ratings and reviews of albums by fans can be obtained. 2.3 I love instrument X - which bands use it, and on which albums? Again, it depends on several factors - the version of an instrument (gut strung harp or metal strung, wooden flute or silver, etc.), how it is played, the accompaniment (if you love the flute and buy a recording because someone plays flute on it only to discover that it can't be heard for a piper......you won't be too happy), etc. See also 3.1, and 3.8 for mailing lists dealing with one particular instrument. 2.4 How do I get information/recordings/other about/by band X? Some of the most common requests concern Runrig, Capercaillie, Altan, Wolfstone and Kathryn Tickell. Recordings can be ordered from most shops or by mail order, or direct from the record company for rarer items (anything by Runrig is freely available, so please check before asking). Listed below are the main contact addresses for information: Runrig: Contact the Runrig Fanclub for more information: 55 Wellington Street Aberdeen AB2 Capercaillie: Published by Taynuilt Records, Highfield, Taynuilt, Argyll, PA35 1JQ. This is the village which the band hail from and it's possible the record company has some of Karen's earlier recordings when she was with The Etives. Information from: Stuart Fleming Capercaillie Fan club Chapmanagement PO Box 1155 Glasgow G3 7TW Altan: should be freely available, as at least three of their recordings are for Green Linnet, their first can be ordered, and the latest is everywhere.... Wolfstone: The first two cassette-only releases can be obtained from Blackfriars Music. The third and fourth album, Unleashed and The Chase, should be easy to find. Not to be confused with Irish band the Wolfe Tones. Information from: Wolfstone PO Box 2 Alness Easter Ross Kathryn Tickell: freely available in the UK, and from good mail order sources in the US/Canada. The rarer recordings and information are available from: The Kathryn Tickell Band PO Box 22 Hexham Northumberland NE48 3BT * If your particular interest is in Capercaillie or Clannad, you may be * interested to hear that their distributor, BMG, is now online. They are * promoting their e-mail address as a feedback mechanism, so if you want to * air your views or ask for info then contact interact@bmg.co.uk 3.0 On-line Information Most archive sources are compiled from contributions from other people on the net. If you search for something which you believe should be at one of these sites only to find that it is not there, then by all means ask on R.M.C. if anyone can help. However, you should then take the answer (lyrics listing, tour dates, or whatever) and make it available to everyone else by submitting it to the relevant archive. After all, that's how they got started in the first place..... 3.1 The All Music Guide Held at allmusic.ferris.edu, and accessible by Gopher, this is a massive (230,000 entries) database on music of all kinds, including Celtic entries. As well as listing the recordings for an artist, it gives label, catalogue numbers, track information, band member info, instruments played, and a rating for the album. Most folk artists are listed alphabetically under POP (confusingly) and not all entries are complete, but it is a very useful resource. 3.2 The Digital Tradition Available by ftp (beta.xerox.com) or WWW (http://web2.xerox.com/digitrad), this is a listing of lyrics for several thousand songs, some of which are folk or celtic. Very useful at times. Web users may also hear some of the music. 3.3 Music archives at UWP (e-mail datta@cs.uwp.edu) These provide extensive lyrics listings, discographies and reviews. Accessible by FTP to ftp.uwp.edu with a limit on external connections - try after 1800. 3.4 Celtic Archive at Stanford (e-mail ceolas@stanford.edu) Available by FTP to celtic.stanford.edu, or by WWW as http://celtic.stanford.edu/ceolas.html, this provides information on the more popular groups, including discographies, line-up and history. Also carries the Mail Order database. (See 4.1). 3.5 Electronic Dirty Linen Dirty Linen, the American folk music magazine publishes an extensive calendar of folk and celtic events, mostly North American concerts tours and festivals worldwide. The calendar is about 300kb; most of the celtic entries are also found on the Stanford archive, but it usually has some unique entries. Available by FTP or Gopher to nysernet.org under * /listserv/folk_music/dirty_linen, or by WWW at * http://www.xerox.com/PARC/music/AboutDirtyLinen.html 3.6 St. Olaf Tune Index This is an index of printed collections of tunes, with over 25,000 entries, mostly of celtic or American-celtic origin. It is broken up into 25 files in the form a_index.prn for each letter; the whole set comes to about 2.7 megabytes. There is also a biblio.txt file listing the source books and Intro and a Readme for more information The collection is copyright but freely available for non-commercial use. Maintainer: James Stewart (nigel@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) Available by FTP or gopher from stolaf.edu under /gopher/"Internet Resources"/"St. Olaf Sponsored MailingLists"/Omni-Cultural-Academic-Resource/Fine- Arts/Musi c/folk-tunes 3.7 The Living Tradition The UK's latest folk music magazine, which primarily deals with traditional music, and which leans heavily towards the Scottish and Irish traditions. Access by gopher is available via gopher.almac.co.uk under "Everything About Scotland". They should also be reachable by e-mail as "living-tradition@almac.co.uk", but some users have experienced problems with this recently. 3.8 Richard Robinson's Tunebook A collection of surprisingly small GIF images of various tunes from NW Europe (Norwegian, Swedish, etc. as well as Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, and even a few from the US). Available by FTP from Celoas (see 3.2), or by WWW at either http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html or http://celtic.stanford.edu/RRTunebook/tunebook.html 3.9 New England Folk Concert Calendar: * WWW: http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/calendar.html * FTP: the file is on theory.lcs.mit.edu as pub/wald/concert-calendar. * email: send mail containing the line "send wald concert-calendar" to * archive-server@theory.lcs.mit.edu. Note that capitalization * (or rather, the lack of it) and spelling are important, since * the archive server is rather picky about such things. 3.10 Other sites By WWW (http): CURIA Project: Thesaurus Linguarum Hiberniu Site: http://curia.ucc.ie/ Trinity College Dublin Home Page Site: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/index.html Pat Murphy's maze of twisty little passages Site: http://info.cv.nrao.edu/staff/pmurphy/pm-home.html University Limerick ITDSRV1 Entry Point Site: file://itdsrv1.ul.ie/pub/webac/home-page.html Ireland: The Internet Collection Site: http://itdsrv1.ul.ie/pub/webac/Information/Ireland.html GNN Home Page Site: http://www.iol.ie/IOL-HOME.html Ireland's Web Servers Site: http://itdsrv1.ul.ie/Information/ServerMapIreland University College Dublin ~[gopher.ucd.ie 70 GIE D931114] Site: gopher://nova.ucd.ie:7777/1 ftp: Gaelic-L archive: úÿ Site: YEATS.CSUFRESNO.EDU Welsh-L archive: Site: SUNSITE.UNC.EDU Celtic GIF/JPEG archive: Site: ORANGUTAN.CV.NRAO.EDU:/pub/images/pmurphy /pub/images/celt 3.11 Mailing Lists These are automatic mail systems which allow a basic discussion on specialised subjects. You are advised to subscribe and read a list for a while before you post to it, to get the feel of its contents and style. (Note if it's a listserv then just mail the command SUB list_name your_name, otherwise you send a message to the contact) Irish Traditional Music Mailing list on Irish traditional music, oriented towards players and traditional, as opposed to popular, music. Membership is about 250, with an average of about half a dozen messages a day. A digest form of the list, with summaries of the most important messages, comes out every month. Subscription address: listserv@irlearn.ucd.ie List address: irtrad-l@irlearn.ucd.ie List address: irtrad-d@irlearn.ucd.ie (digest) Maintainer: Paul McGettrick (ARAR6013@iruccvax.ucc.ie) Folk Music radio shows This is primarily for hosts of folk/bluegrass/celtic radio shows, but all are welcome to join. Runs about 5-10 messages per day usually, includes playlists, band information, Folk Alliance news and chat. Very much US-based. Subscription address: listserv@psuvm.psu.edu. List address: folkdj-l@psuvm.psu.edu Maintainer: Tina Hay, tmh1@psuvm.psu.edu (if you are on Bitnet, use the addresses listserv@psuvm and folkdj@psuvm) Accordion Covers all kinds of accordions and concertina. 10-15 messages a week, discusses contemporary accordion music of all sorts, instrument building and repair. The archive has lots of information on magazines, builders, tutors and tips. Subscription address: accordion-request@cs.cmu.edu List address: accordion@cs.cmu.edu Maintainer: Phoebe Sengers (accordion-request@cs.cmu.edu) WWW Archive: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001/afs/cs/user/phoebe/mosaic/accordion.html Bagpipes Discusses all kinds of bagpipes, including Scottish, Irish (uileann), Northumbrian, Spanish, Macedonian, Swedish and others. Covers technical issues and news mainly of interest to players. Subscription address: pipes-request@sunapee.dartmouth.edu List address: bagpipe@cs.dartmouth.edu Maintainer: wbc@quimby.dartmouth.edu Archives and FAQ are available by FTP or Gopher at cs.dartmouth.edu in the directory /pub/bagpipes Harp Subscription address: harp-request@mit.edu List address: harp@mit.edu WWW Archive: file://tns-www.lcs.mit.edu/pub/mail- archive/harp/harp_archive.html Boiled In Lead Subscription address: leadheads-request@asylum.sf.ca.us Maintainer: John Romkey FTP archive: asylum.sf.ca.us /pub/leadheads Oyster Band Subscription address: oysters-request@blowfish.taligent.com Celtic language mailing lists: In general, this area is covered by the SOC.CULTURE.CELTIC newsgroup, which has its own FAQ. Postings on these subjects are probably best sent there, but given the volume of traffic on translation of Gaelic lyrics, these have been included for completeness. Irish Emigrant (News from Ireland) list: Subscribe: irish-net-request@CS.CORNELL.EDU Note that this list cannot be posted to - it distributes printed copy free to academic sites, but charges $15 for others. Celtic Linguist list: celtling@MIT.EDU Contact: Andrew H Carnie Subscribe: via above Irish Studies list: irish-studies@CC.SWARTHMORE.EDU Contact: Michael Durkan Subscribe: Listserv@CC.SWARTHMORE.EDU Celtic-L list: celtic-l@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Subscribe: Listserv@IRLEARN.UCD.IE IrTrad-L (Irish traditional music) list: irtrad-l@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Subscribe: Listserv@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Irl-Pol (Irish politics) list: irl-pol@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Subscribe: Listserv@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Ireland (Mostly politics) list: ireland@RUTVM1.RUTGERS.EDU Subscribe: Listserv@RUTVM1.RUTGERS.EDU Irl-News (News and articles) list: Irl-News@RUTVM1.RUTGERS.EDU Subscribe: Listserv@RUTVM1.RUTGERS.EDU Gaelic-M (Same as Gaelic-L except for MIME support) Contact: Email me if interested kelley@ede.sanders.lockheed.com Gaelic-L List: gaelic-l@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Language(s): Celtic, Goidelic; PB1201-PB1847 Irish, Scottish, & Manx Gaelic (GAELIC-L) (not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in a Gaelic language preferred) Listserver: listserv@irlearn.bitnet listserv@irlearn.ucd.ie listserv%irlearn.ucd.ie@uk.ac.earn-relay For questions, contact: mgunn@irlearn.ucd.ie (Marion Gunn) caoimhin@smo.ac.uk (Caoimhi/n O/ Donnai/le) craig@scot.demon.co.uk (Craig Cockburn) Welsh-L List: welsh-l@IRLEARN.UCD.IE Language(s): Celtic, Brittonic; PB2101-PB2849 Welsh (also Breton, Cornish) (WELSH-L) (not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in a Brittonic language preferred) Listserver: listserv@irlearn.bitnet listserv@irlearn.ucd.ie listserv%irlearn.ucd.ie@uk.ac.earn-relay For questions, contact: everson@irlearn.ucd.ie (Michael Everson) briony@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Briony Williams) 4.0 Ordering recordings 4.1 Mail order/phone There is a comprehensive list of mail-order vendors held in text form at the Celtic Music archives at Stanford (ftp to celtic.stanford.edu). Note that this includes several UK companies who may be able to obtain recordings which are unavailable in the US or Canada - in particular, Celtic Music and Tower Records are worth a try, but this implies no endorsement of their services or pricing. Be warned that UK prices of CDs are higher than in the US - usually 10+ pounds, or around $15-17 before postage. 4.2 On the Internet The Compact Disc Connection has a catalog of 80,000 CDs, including some popular celtic ones. Prices are usually lower than in the shops, and many listings have song titles and short reviews. They do ship to non-US locations for a reasonable price, but for import CDs refer users to Compact Disc Europe. * Access: Previously available through HOLONET, this is no longer * available. They supposedly have numbers for modem access in about two * dozen US cities, but I have no details of what these numbers are... Compact Disc Europe claims to have the world's largest online CD catalog, with over 100,000 titles. They are available by modem at 408-730-8138, 9600 baud,8N1 (San Jose, California number) or phone 305-481-8984 (Florida-based company) The Virtual Record Store runs on Gopher; as of a few months ago, when it was getting started, it had about 4,000 'alternative' and new age titles, but promise 40,000 titles soon. They also promise to special order anything. Email: vrs@nstn.ns.ca * Gopher: previously at nstn.ns.ca, they seem to have moved. Any * info welcomed.... 4.3 General advice on mail order When ordering from foreign countries, it is generally best to pay by credit card. Although some may take International Money Orders, this involves getting the IMO to them, with a letter explaining what you want. In addition, many credit card companies will insure your purchase automatically (useful if your dog eats the rare vinyl which took 3 weeks to arrive...). * Think VERY carefully before sending cash. As well as being unwise, it is also ILLEGAL in some countries (yes, I'm serious!). Also watch out for the handling charge and commission when paying foreign bills by credit card. If in doubt, check before paying, as this can be non-trivial. Specify your order in detail - if you want the most recent release of an album at $15 rather than one of the last four of the original release at $200, you'd better make it clear before telling them to charge it to your credit card....[;-)] The best way is to give full details of the label and catalogue number (see 3.1 for help in getting them). Finally, some common sense - if you only want one record, get together with some friends and order a lot, then share the postage costs. Apart from anything else, this may get you a bulk discount in some stores. 5.0 Favourite questions 5.1 Is Enya related to Clannad? Yes - she is the sister of Maire Brennan, who is the sister of Pol Brennan, etc. The whole band are related to each other in diverse and Irish ways. Enya (Eithne) sang on Crann Ull and Fuaim, before going her own way. See 3.8. 5.2 Which part of Ireland are Capercaillie from, and which part of Scotland are Altan from? They do sound similar - most people can't tell the difference between traditional Scottish music and traditional Irish music, so they guess... In reality, Altan are Irish and Capercaillie Scottish. The answer to all of these sort of questions is usually "Lots of different places" (step forward Connor MacLeod...). Although they started in one area (Taynuilt near Oban for Capercaillie, and Donegal for Altan), both had various musicians leave/join, so that now they are very mixed. Capercaillie have a famous Irishman in their line-up (Manus Lunny) and are produced by his brother Donal. One of Altan comes from Newcastle, two from Dublin, etc. 5.3 Is Enya dead? No. This rumour has done the rounds several times, and is not funny (it wasn't even funny when it first came round). Please check all facts before posting news to the group, as declaring someone dead when they aren't is anti-social. * 5.4 When is the Clan Alba album coming out? * Search me. At a gig in Cambridge, UK on the 5th November 1994, Dick * Gaughan said that they were only waiting for the artwork, and the * album would be out very soon - he suggested within about a month. * Still no sign.... When it _is_ released, it will be a double album, * and will be stunningly good if the sampler is anything to go by. * Now all we have to do is wait. * 5.5 Is there a translation of by Clannad? * Yes (mainly). However, there are none online that anyone knows of, * mainly because all of the traditional tunes are published in books * which are readily available, while all of their own work is not * available as no translations were published with the albums. If you * _do_ manage to persuade someone to translate the words for you, please * be sure to post the translation to one/all of the archives which are * described above. 6.0 Celtic Music radio shows 6.1 UK There are several folk music radio shows in the UK. Most are on local radio (BBC Radio Scotland and BBC Radio Cambridgeshire are the two I know of), but there is a show on Radio 2 every Wednesday which deals with folk in general, and sometimes includes Celtic bands. Note that these are folk only, so Celtic Rock or New Age bands will not normally be heard. If anyone can tell me the schedules, please let me know. 6.2 USA & Canada Throughout the US, the Thistle and Shamrock program carries Celtic music of various forms. Details of its broadcast times and frequencies can be obtained by FTP from the Ceolas archive (See 3.4). There are no Canadian entries in the T&S listing, but it is available in a few places. 6.3 Elsewhere I have no information on other countries. Please send me details if you wish additional entries. 7.0 Acknowledgements Gerard Manning (ceolas@celtic.stanford.edu) for the list of archive sites and mailing lists, plus the on-line ordering information Craig Cockburn (craig@scot.demon.co.uk) for answering everyone's questions before the FAQ was around Jim Chokey (jchokey@leland.stanford.edu) for getting r.m.c. started. -- +===================================================================== ======== ==========+ | Paul J. Murphy, Head of Computing, British Antarctic Survey, Cambridge, UK | | e-mail: pjmu@pcmail.nbs.ac.uk | Tel.: +44 223 251 408 | Fax: +44 223 62616 | +===================================================================== ======== =========== -- +===================================================================== ======== ==========+ | Paul J. Murphy, Head of Computing, British Antarctic Survey, Cambridge, UK | | e-mail: pjmu@pcmail.nbs.ac.uk | Tel.: +44 223 251 408 | Fax: +44 223 62616 | +===================================================================== ======== ===========