******************************************** **********--\-\-\-\-THE-NEW-/-/-/-/--******* ***********---PHISH.NET FAQ FILE---********* *************-^/^/^/^|^|^\^\^\^\^-********** ---------Frequently Asked Questions--------- -------(and their answers)------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- PART 1 (of 6): ADMINISTRATION TOPICS: date index, copyright notice, top-level outline, full outline of Qs and As, file status, future plans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Last Update: 9/17/94 (*tons* added; some reorg) Previous Update: 3/20/94 (new Qs, arrangments) Last Reorganization: 9/17/94 (question order prioritized for newbies; two sections added) Previous Reorg: 10/18/93 (E added, from D) ----------------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE A Copyright is claimed by Ellis ("of Lemuria") Godard on behalf of and for exercise by all contributors, the band, & their fans. This collection of diligently assembled & creatively presented info may be reproduced by any means, as long as it is <1> always copied in whole, unchanged & with this notice; <2> not sold commercially or used for financial gain. This file may be accessed for FREE! with or without internet access... DON’T WASTE YOUR MONEY! Save it for tickets! ----------------------------------------------------------------- BIG OUTLINE Section 1: Administration and outlines Section A: Qs&As about the Phish.net Section B: Qs&As about the Band Section C: Qs&As about the Band’s Music Section D: Qs&As about Specific Lyrics Section E: Qs&As about Taping, Dubbing, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FULL OUTLINE OF Qs AND As PART 1 (of 6): ADMINISTRATION SECTION A: NET QUESTIONS A-1: PHISH-NET: what is it? how do I post? join? quit? A-2: NETIQUETTE: What is it? Any specifics? A-3: PHISHNET T-SHIRT: can i get one? why would i want one? A-4: OLD DIGESTS: where are they? how can i read them? A-5: ARCHIVE: where is it? what's it? can I add to it? A-6: ARCHIVE: how do i get files from it? A-7: TIME: how quickly will archive requests come? A-8: IRC: what is it? how do i use it? when’s best? A-9: GATHERING: what is it? how do i plan one? should i? A-10: BOOK OF PHRIENDS: what is it? where is it? A-11: ABBREVIATIONS: what are some common ones? A-12. OTHER NETS: are there other good music digests? SECTION B: BAND QUESTIONS B-1: PHISH: who? what? got any background info? B-2: BAD HAT: what is it? Any other bands these four are in? B-3: LOGO: what’s goin’ on in there? am I seeing stuff? B-4: HARDCOPY: is there a newsletter, fanzine, etc? B-5: ONLINE CONFERENCE: is there going to be one? when? B-6: TICKETS: how can I get ticket & venue info? B-7: MAIL ORDER: how’s it being done so far? B-8: VENUE INFO: Where can I find info about venues? B-9: PHOTOGRAPHY: can i do it inside shows? why not? B-10: TRAMPOLINES: plus, what happens to the old ones? B-11: VANS: when did the band give it away? to whom? B-12: MARLEY: who is that? B-13: RUBBER CHICKENS: have one? what’s on it? B-14: HENRIETTA: who is that? (and other nicknames) B-15: THE DUDE OF LIFE: who is that? B-16: HORNS: who are they? when did they play with Phish? B-17: STAGE: who designed the aquarium? what’s it look like? B-18: LIGHTS: who designed them movin lights up thar? B-19: SUPPORT: who are they? what do they do? B-20: ORGANS: what can you tell me about Page's setup? B-21: GUITAR: what can you tell me about Trey's setup? B-22: TREY’S SUSTAIN: what's the longest that he's held a note? B-23: BASS: What can you tell me about Mike's bass setup? B-24: DRUMS: What can you tell me about Jon's drums setup? SECTION C: MUSIC QUESTIONS C-1: DISCOGRAPHY: where is there one? what's on it? C-2: NEXT ALBUM: when? whats on it? C-3: ORDERING: how can I order studio-produced material? C-5: RIFT LINER NOTES: tell me something fun.... C-5: WHITE ALBUM: what is it? C-6: GAMEHENDGE: what/where is it? how do i get there? C-7: JUNTA LIVE MATERIAL: those dates don’t look right! C-8: HELPING FRIENDLY BOOK: what is it? should i buy it? C-9: HPB: when's it getting updated? how can i help? C-10: LANGUAGE: what is it? how born? what are the signals? C-11: RADIO SHOWS: are there any? where? C-12: SYD BARRET: who is he? where is he in my phish collection? C-13: OTHER BANDS: phish.net suggestions? live tapes? SECTION D: Specific Lyrics D-1: ALL THINGS RECONSIDERED: is that an NPR song? D-2: ANTELOPE: first words Trey mumbles just before song takes off? D-3: ASSE FESTIVAL: what is it? D-4: CURTAIN: Whats that line? D-5: FAHT / WINDHAM HELL: uh... whats the story? D-6: FLUFFHEAD: to my door, or new york? D-7: HALL IN SOLACE: or whatever. what's the "correct" title? D-8: HARRY HOOD: what's it about? part of Gamehenge? D-9: JUMP MONK: what is it? is it an original? D-10. LLAMA: What is the chorus to Llama? D-11: JUNTA: how do you pronounce it? D-12: MIKE'S GROOVE: what is it? it’s always that way? D-13: NICU: and i see you? huh? D-14: OKIPA? oh kee pa? oki pa? huh? okay, what? D-15: RIKER’S MAILBOX: what’s going on with that noise? D-16: TMWSIY middle, DEMAND end, and other HEBREW D-17: YAMAR: D-18: YOU ENJOY MYSELF: what the hell are they saying? D-19: 2001/ ZARATHUSTRA: what is it? where’d it come from? SECTION E: TAPE QUESTIONS E-1: LIVE RECORDING: can i? what equipment do i need? E-2: TAPING ETIQUETTE: a release from the band & staff E-3: TAPES: what REALLY high qual tapes are around? where? E-4: BEGINNERS: How can a beginner get tapes? E-5: TAPELIST: what is it? what's in it? do i need one? E-6: TAPE TRADE: what is it? how do I get into one? E-7: TAPE TREE: what is it? how does it work? should i do one? E-8: MAILING TAPES: how should i do it? E-9: TAPING OVER THE NET: can it be done? why not? E-10: WHAT’S WRONG with buying bootlegged CDs? E-11: What happens if people still continue to purchase them? E-12: I goofed & bought a booteleg CD or 2; what can I do now? E-13: I have no tapes, how can I start a legitimate collection? E-14: DUBBING: how should I set my deck levels when copying tapes? E-15: DUBBING: dual decks, cleaning, and AZIMUTH E-16: DOLBY? DBX? what are they? (3 posts; some debate) E-17: PATCHING IN: etiquette (not answered yet) E-18: DCC and DAT: compared and considered ----------------------------------------------------------------- FILE STATUS ----File History This file is maintained by Ellis “of Lemuria” Godard (jeg5s@virginia.edu) using MSWord, MSWindows, and emacs. The file began circa 1991 in ASCII and is now in 5 formats; it began as 11 Qa and As, and has grown to a structure of 86 built to answer hundreds of questions. The file has also been maintained by Lee Silverman and others; information on other prior maintainers would be appreciated. The file is currently archived at phish-net and cross-posted to three Usenet newsgroups: rec.music.phish, rec.answers, and news.answers. ----File Submissions If the question you have isn’t here, and you’re not sure of the answer, post the question to phish@phish.net with subject “Another Question for Iculus“. Send suggestions for new questions & answers, as well as corrections or additions to the current list, to Ellis at ----------------------------------------------------------------- FUTURE PLANS REORGANIZATION: Comments and suggestions are sought concerning overall reorganization of the FAQ. A number of phish-net vets have noted that some of the most frequently asked questions occur low in the file, so that a newbie who wants to know “What are they saying in You Enjoy Myself?” has to read or skim past guitar and bass technical garb to find the answer. The problem with reorganizing the file so that “newbie questions” are at the front is that you lose the ability to oranize the file by topic; Lemuria thinks its better to organize sections by topic (net, band, music, lyrics, taping) that to have a two-level organization, first by experience (newbie, vets, technical gurus) and *then* by topic. The goal should be (with weak apologies to Marx) the simplest presentation of the most information in a form easiest to access and utilize by the most people. A secondary goal should be flexibility to add both new questions (concerning any topic and for any level of net experience) and new resources (esp. pictures and sound, as technology makes those features a feasible part of this file.) OTHER FORMATS: This file is now available in plain text (FAQASCII.TXT) as well as in versions formatted for the following wordprocessors: Microsoft Word for Windows version 6.0 (FAQWORD6.DOC), Microsoft Word for Windows version 2.0 (FAQWORD2.DOC), Word for Mac 4.0 (FAQMAC4.DOC), and WordPerfect for Windows 5.1 (FAQWP51.DOC). To retrieve alternate versions of these files, please see A-5 and A-6. If you would prefer that the FAQ Phile be available in another format, send a message to Ellis which identifies the wordprocessor brand, the machine you want it to run on, the version number you suggest, and whether you think that format should be on the archive or if you’re one of only a few using that format. HYPERTEXT: The possibility of hypertext pages is being considered, for easier flow within the file and for the future linking of answers with pictures/graphics and, someday, sound samples. (For example, the discography answer could show the cover of each release, the history answer could include GIFs of early and recent photos of the members, the horns answer could have a sound-bite of horns, the answers to lyric questions could link to the lyrics file, etc.) The FAQ Administrator has little understanding of the possibilities and technologies associated with such advances to the file, but they have been suggested and discussed. ----------------------------------------------------------------- end part 1 (of 6): administration keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train! ======================================================== SECTION A: NET QUESTIONS TOPICS: phish-net, netiquette, phish-net tshirts, old digests, archive, time, irc, gatherings, books of phriends, abbreviations, other music nets. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-1: PHISH-NET: what is it? how do I post? join? quit? It is a forum for discussion, review, & updates concerning the musical adventure Phish. (see B-1). It comes in digest & newsgroup form, & has expanded to IRC (see A-8). If you have access to Internet newsgroups (eg, through Unix news), post to rec.music.phish. If you only have access to e-mail, use these addresses: a)The service address, to which questions about the list itself & requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed: phish-request@phish.net b) Send mail to the entire list to: phish@phish.net c) The archive address, to which you should address requests for the Helping Friendly Book, FAQ File, etc. (see A-6.) d) The administrator addresses, to whom you should send comments, corrections, and submissions to the various archive files. (see A-5) e) Tour information (transcribed from the hotlines) and setlists come from phish-info@phish.net. To get these messages, send a subject heading “please subscribe” to phish-info-request@phish.net. f) There is an IRC channel (see A-8), #phish. There are also rooms in AOL, a conference on the WELL, and other areas of other commercial services. (No other info for these is available.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-2: NETIQUETTE: What is it? Any specifics? The usual net standards apply. Here are some basics. All caps is considered SHOUTING and is considered rude; use *asterisks* or _underlines_ around a word to emphasize it. Public criticism is called flaming, is considered rude, and only invites and incites “flame wars.” No question is stupid, but this file includes a structure of 86 questions and answers designed to answer literally *hundreds* of questions you might have; please check here before posting a question to the net. Don’t post a “subscribe” or “unsubscribe” message to the entire net; it’s not only rude and a waste of bandwidth, but unproductive. (For the correct address, see A-1, A-4, A-5). Rumors are discouraged; wild guesses are even less appreciated. Spelling helps; grammar and punctuation aren’t strictly necessary. Don’t waste your time or other people’s “bandwidth” (mail space) fussing about someone’s spelling, grammar, or puntuation, although discussion of the spelling of lyrics is healthy. When you respond to a post, make certain that personal responses go to a person (the poster), not the entire network group; for instance “I saw that too!” should go to Smitty when Smitty posts a setlist looking for a tape (called “grovelling”), not to the whole net. Some posts can be ignored. The cookie recipe story is baloney. The kid in the hospital who needs postcards for a Guiness record.... is no longer in the hospital, is a lot better, and got way too many cards, and Guiness no longer considers applicants for that record. The “porche guy” (“a bunch of hippies sat on my red porche, scratched the paint, spit in my face, etc. At “) is a recurring farce. Posts that say “phish sucks”, “hippies suck”, “phish = dead”, etc are garbage. For more, see the Netiquette File. (To get it, see A-5 and A-6.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-3: PHISHNET T-SHIRT: can i get one? why would i want one? [Lemurianote: This answer is dated Fall 1993; Matt is now busy with his quite amazing band yeP! and is likely long out of shirts. However, he hasn’t answered definitely that he is, so, here’s the low down...] The Ophishial PhishNet T-shirt has been around since Christmas, 1991. There are now two versions, 1992, & 1993, available from Matt Laurence (mlaurenc@world.std.com). These shirts have been officially christened & approved by the band, & have been receiving rave reviews from Phishheads everywhere. They are an _indespensible_ tool for locating netters at shows. From Matt: For those who may have missed it, the Official 1993 PhishNet T-shirt is on 100% cotton Haynes Beefy-Ts (though I think I'll go back to FOLs next year) and comes in L, XL, XXL. The front design is a large, multi-colored psychedelic swirling net, with a cool fish wearing Ray-Bans floating in the center. The words PHISH and NET are at the top and bottom, respectively, in large ripply blue letters. On the back is the net address with another graphic that is not so secret any longer, but I won't tell! I like to think these are pretty high-quality shirts, but since I don't like to go overboard in these posts, I'll leave it to anyone who has one and likes it to post testimonials. Anyway, these shirts are $15 each, or $16 for XXL. If you live outside the US, please enclose $2 extra for shipping and such. Send your bank check or money order (personal checks ok, but if it bounces you'll get no shirt), with number desired, sizes wanted, address, and email address to: Matt Laurence, 11 John Poulter Rd., Lexington, MA 02173. They won't last forever, and I want to get as many out as possible.... So get psyched to join the ranks of the initiated & get your PhishNet shirt as soon as possible! There was a second (and *final*) reprint of the 1992 shirt in the Fall of 1993. Sorry. But, so you'll recognize it at shows, it depicts the same smilin' fish, much bigger, with colorful children's wood-block type around him declaring the PhishNet. Note: there is no design on the back of the 1992 shirt; at shows, during sets, and at my seats, I (Ellis) often wear mine backwards, so it might actually get seen and I might actually get found. *OH*.... Why do you want one? So we can find you at shows! :-) Besides, it's a great shirt and proclaims to all a band worth hearing, seeing, and otherwise experiencing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-4: OLD DIGESTS: where are they? how can i read them? Every digest ever distributed by fuggles is at the archive site, in the directory /pub/phish/digests if you use ftp. There is also an index by date of all the digests, called digests.index. If you do not have access to ftp, send mail to phish-archives & you'll be able to request files. (see A-5, A-6) ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-5: ARCHIVE: where is it? what's it? can I add to it? It contains everything you might want that pertains to Phish - text files full of info, graphics, sounds, information about tape trees, & a copy of EVERY digest ever sent out from fuggles. Briefly, there are nine major text files: a) Netter's List: of many active pholk on the Phish net. To be added, get the net-form, fill it out, & send it back to phish-archives via mail or ftp. b) FAQ Phile: The file you're reading right now. In ASCII, Word 6.0, Word 2.0, Word for Mac 4.0, and WordPerfect for Windows 5.1. c) Lyrics Database: A collection of all Phish original lyrics, posted to the net & taken from liner notes. d) Stories File: Many interesting phish- or net-related stories that have been posted to the net. Highlights include the Ness Story (a must!), & tales from shows (eg Townsend 91). e) Interviews file: Transcripts of interviews with the band, plus two reviews of PON from the Boston Phoenix (and other reviews?) f) Helping Phriendly Book: A collection of setlists, song titles, the discography, some play statistics, & admininstrative info In text, Word 2.0, and Word for Mac versions; also, a WWW page-system in the works to link to chords and lyrics. g) Chords File: A collection of net posts containing song chords. Currently comes in two forms: Microsoft Word For Windows 2.0 document (for those of you with access to a PC Running Word or a recent version of Word Perfect, or a Mac running Word) & a Plain Text (ASCII) file. h) Tour Dates file: Contains current *verified* tour dates & phone numbers for venues. i) Nettiquette File: Contains some basic pointers about how people should conduct themselves on the net. Very useful for those new to email, networks, etc. j) Venue File: Contains mucho info on almost all venues played by Phish. Includes info on hotels, gathering, directions, etc. In addition, if you are using ftp, the (every one!) digests are stored in unix-compressed format; both a Mac program & an IBM program are provided to uncompress them. If you have anything to add to any of these files, send: Netter list info: phish-archives@phish.net FAQ changes/additions: jeg5s@virginia.edu. (Ellis of Lemuria) Interviews & Stories: jflemma@mailbox.syr.edu (Jay Flemma) Lyrics: Alek_Grabinski@ccm.hf.intel.com Tour info (rumored or confirmed): maggard@subpac.enet.dec.com (Jeff Maggard) Venue information (inc. Maps, hotels, etc: 76336.1715@CompuServe.COM (Joe D'Andrea) ASCII transcriptions of chords: ericbe@microsoft.com (Eric Berman) Newspaper & magazine clippings: shell@phish.net (Shelly Culbertson) Nettiquette comments: samuels@waldron.stanford.edu (Steve Samuels) 1994 setlists & corrections: novak3@violet.berkeley.edu (Mike Perrot) Older (pre-1994) setlists & corrections: hpb@phish.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-6: ARCHIVE: how do i get files from it? Currently, three ways: Mail, ftp, & Gopher. More ways coming. NOTE CHANGES MADE MID-OCTOBER, 1993!! From: Lee Silverman Date: Oct 16, 1993 THE ARCHIVE SITE HAS MOVED. Fringe.cis.brown.edu is no longer the phish archive site. [An earlier site was fuggles.acc.virginia.edu; that site, too, is gone.] In fact, fringe has not existed since Oct 18, 1993. The new archive site is archive.phish.net. Chuck Fee and I have managed to get the archive site going again on Chuck's machine at Penn State. Email to phish-archives will be answered by me. Send mail asking for files to phish-archives@phish.net. Do NOT use any of the fuggles addresses for this net. There is an ftp server running on the archive site. You can ftp to archive.phish.net to check it out. There is also a gopher server running. Gopher to archive.phish.net should also work. Note that you no longer need to specify to connect to port 1070; gopher is running on the standard port 70, so you can specify it if you want, but don't need to. If you sent mail to phish-archives and it wasn't answered, please resend it to phish-archives@phish.net, and I'll try to resend your files. -------- _MAIL:_ The text files mentioned in question A4 are available on request; simply send mail to detailing which files you want (uses “SEND “ in subject heading), & Lee will send you those files via email. If, for some reason, your mailer can't handle large files, each of these files can be sent to you in sections of 500 lines each; note that America Online and Compuserve impose such restrictions, and some schools do as well. If you need to get the files in smaller chunks, make sure that your request says that you need the files to be sent piecemeal. At the moment, there is no way to send large amounts of digests via mail; if you request a single back-digest, Lee can send that to you, but you *must* know the number. This service should improve in the future. _FTP:_ For those who already know & understand ftp: the host is archive.phish.net; log in as anonymous, send your ID as password, & cd to /pub/phish. Enjoy! For those who don't know, ftp is a protocol for transferring files accross the internet - the file you ask for is (exactly) recreated on (the floppy or hard drive on) your machine. Ftp allows you to get multiple files; if you wanted, you could "get" a copy of every digest from 1993. I can't imagine wanting to do that. Ftp can be done from ANY networked computer. I am only familiar with Mac & Unix (& maybe a little DOS), so the only programs I can suggest are "ftp" for Unix & "Fetch" for the Mac. If you have a networked mac & you don't have Fetch or something like it, ask around; someone at your site should have a copy. IBMs, VAXen, CRAYs, even Apple IIe's are examples of other computers that can use ftp if they're on a network. The explanation of ftp here is based on Unix, because that's where ftp started, and because it's the simplest way to describe things. First, you need to connect to the archive site. The archive site is really a machine, called archive.phish.net, so when you connect to it on a Unix machine, simply type ">ftp archive.phish.net" It will tell you when you have connected, & it will ask you for a name. You should enter the name "anonymous". It will then ask for a password; enter your userid or your name. You will then be presented with an ftp prompt. On a Mac running Fetch, all of this information is entered beforehand in the appropriate fields, and Fetch uses the information you have provided to go through the same steps when you click "Open connection". Next you want to change to the Phish subdirectory. If you are on a Unix machine, you are doubtless aware of the cd & ls commands; use them in the same way in ftp. cd lets you change directories; ls gives you a listing of the contents of the directory. On a mac, you need not worry about these commands; fetch does it for you. Fetch displays directories as folders,files as pieces of paper; to change into a directory, double-click on it & fetch will present you with a listing of what's in that directory. Get to the phish subdirectory by first changing into the "pub" directory, then the "phish" directory. Take a look into any of the folders that you see in the phish directory. In unix you can move back a folder level by typing "cd ..", in Fetch you can simply hold down the mouse-button on the directory name above the fetch window & see a listing of previous directories. To get a file in Unix, type "get " The filename on your machine can be a complete path, for example "get /pub/phish/digests/digests.001-024/digest-10.Z ~/phish/dig-1.Z" is perfectly valid if you have a subdirectory called phish. On the Mac this is much easier, simply click on folders until you get to the file you want, & double-click it. You may have to manually choose binary or text data; the server isn't perfect yet! If you have any questions, complaints, concerns, etc, please let Lee know by mailing . If you have something to put on the FTP server, send mail to phish-archives & we'll figure out how to do it. _GOPHER:_ The third way is via a protocol, very similar to ftp, called "Gopher". Archive, like fringe, is probably running the most recent version of the UMN Gopher server program. To connect, you need what's known as a Gopher "client", a program that connects to gopher servers. On a Macintosh, the most popular one is called TurboGopher; you can ftp it from the computer_help directory with Fetch. On Unix you can use Xmosiac, XGopher, Gopher, etc. On some systems, Gopher is called CWIS, because Gopher was originally intended as a Campus Wide Information Server, & is still used primarily for that purpose. The advantage to Gopher is that you don't need to store files from the archive on your computer, & if you're reading digests, you don't need to uncompress them; Gopher does it for you. If you are trying to look at one of the graphics but don't have any lasting need to keep it, simply use Gopher & double- click on the graphic. If your machine has a program on it that can view GIFs (TurboGopher defaults to Giffer, I think), it will get the GIF for you & then run Giffer to display it. Most Unix gopher clients default to XV, though you can use SDSC's "display" just as easily. Gopher is simply an easy way to browse through information that's available via the internet. Most people who use the phish archive will be more inclined to read a file or look at a graphic one time and then not bother with it again; for this purpose, gopher is ideal. Access it by gophering to archive.phish.net and, please, send feedback to phish-archives@phish.net You can get a gopher client for most machines by anonymous ftp to boombox.micro.umn.edu, in /pub/gopher. You want a "client" program, i.e. one that allows you to attach to a gopher server, not a server program. If you use Xwindows, you should ftp a copy of Xmosaic from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu,under /mosaic/xmosaic. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-7: TIME: how quickly will archive requests come? How long does it take to recieve The FAQ, The Helping Phriendly Book, Netter's list, etc... after you have put in a request to have them E-mailed to you? Depends on the time constraints of our admins. They try to get stuff turned around within 3-4 days. Given the volume of new pholk on the net, give them a little slack, patience, and kindness. (Random acts of kindness and senseless beauty spread their way would be well-deserved.) Expect between 6 and 10 digests per week, doubling to quadrupling during tours. Digests are mailed to a mass mailing list when the content exceeds either a certain size or a certain number (24) of posts. There can be a considerable (upwards of 24 hrs) delay between the last message actually posted to rec.music.phish and the arrival in your mailbox, due to Internet mail routing and other technical limitations. Please report any inconsistencies between the digest and the newsgroup to phish-request@phish.net or lee@phish.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-8: IRC: what is it? how do i use it? when’s best? Short version: Internet Relay Chat (aka, incorrectly, Internet Realitime Conversation, e.g.). It is realtime discussion with other people, everywhere, on distinct "channels". You will need a unix/internet account. At the prompt (e.g. "$"), type "help irc" to see if your system has it. You may need to type either "log on irc" or just "irc" to get in; check with your sys op or consult/acc office. Once in, you need a backslash before any command; anything else will be broadcast on the channel you’re using. Once on, these commands (with requisite backslash shown) will be useful: /join #phish put you on the phish channel /nick smitty changes your nickname (id) to smitty /part #phish takes you off the phish channel /me bounces. sends "****Action: Smitty bounces." /who #phish tells you everyone on the channel /whois smitty tells you who smitty is /whowas smitty tells you who smitty was, if he was on while you were but has left /msg smitty sends a private message to smitty /list lists all channels (BUNCHES! & the list CANNOT be slowed down AFAIK /query smitty establishes a link of realtime talk w/o having to use msg & name repeatedly /set novice off allows you to be on >1 channel /signoff gets you out /help lists all commands /help leapfrog gives help on “leapfrog” command. (Note: leapfrog is not a command; just an example; works for any command.) Follow cross-references if confused!! ========= Operator explanation (DIMP!): As the local UVA guru told me, "give people a great toy & they shit on it!" There are a number of hasslers, buttheads, & knackers that have surfaced quickly & numerously. Some of them put in bugs, some fill or freeze screens, etc. There are also what are called "netsplits", which occur when the connection along the internet web disconnects. To avoid the knacker crew, to survive netsplits happily, you need to maintain an operator. This person has special POWERS which are mighty & invulnerable; in part it _is_ such POWERS which allow the knackers to put wisdom in the hands of avarice & greed. But we are strong, for we once were Lizards, & we have heard the words of the great, the knowledgeable Iculus, through the storytellings of the magical Saint Ernesto the Fabulous, orchestrator of the great saga itself. With these POWERS, you can kick off knackers, change the topic (i like to put something with DUCK in it.. :-]), make the channel invite only (if the knackers are persistent), & give other people the POWERS (ie make the ops, too). Use these commands... /mode #phish +o smitty to make nick smitty an op /mode #phish +i to make channel invite only /invite smitty to invite smitty /topic MIDNIGHT MADNESS, EVERY SUNDAY! BRING A DUCK makes the topic “MIDNIGHT MADNESS, EVERY SUNDAY! BRING A DUCK BTW, the topic appears 1) in the right column of the list of channels when someone uses the list command to see all the channels 2) on the screen with "*****TOPIC" in front of it when you join that channel, and 3) with "current topic is" in front of it, when you use the topic command "/topic" with no operators. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-9: GATHERING: what is it? how do i plan one? should i? Should you?? Why, yes, of course! If there's not someone to be a bit aggressive and say “hey! wear your net shirts to ___ between __ and ___ before the ___ show”, we'll all remain faceless names with only ASCII to bond by. A gathering, in this context, is an assembling, meeting, partying, and celebrating of netters, most of whom otherwise have contact with each other only on the net, or by some stroke of luck inside a show. (See A-3) Net gatherings usually take place at a restaurant near a show, before a show, but there's no good reason that there couldn't be a gathering without a show (or, for that matter, a post-show gathering.) For instance, there are 45 phish.netters in Charlottesville, most of whom have never met; sounds like a good reason to party! Hints: DO volunteer to set one up if you live in the area &/or have a good way to make decisions & arrangements, & think you might be able to handle a few phone calls. DO try to find the ideal place: cheap with decent food & a good beer selection, that allows those under 18 in, & is within walking distance of the venue. DO take comments from others & post corrections ASAP! DON'T suggest multiple places close to the show; pick one, then try to stick to it, or you’ll end up with multiple simultaneous gatherings and not know it. DON'T pick a 21 & over only place. DO give directions on the net, maybe with an ASCII map, & DO note parking if not within walking distance of venue (remembering pre-show slacker energy level and mental capacity). DO call ahead & get a big table; it may be necessary, would help gatherers find each other, and would be a nice thing to do for the otherwise unexpecting wait staff. DO let any wait staff know that your's is the "phish net" party for anyone that comes to the door asking. DO plan it for the second night in a town, if there is one; second shows seem better, and more people can find out about it and get directions during and after the first show. DO make it early, eg 3-6pm for a 7:00 show. DON'T sit at separate tables, ending up in the same travel cliches you came in & totally losing the point of the gathering. DO go to gatherings that are planned! And, DO take a pen for snail-mail and email addresses (esp. for later trades, show thoughts, etc), recent setlists (for those not at recent shows or distanced from the net due to long distance travel), your tapelist, and good vibes! :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-10: BOOK OF PHRIENDS: what is it? where is it? The Book of Phriends was started as a hardcopy solidarity resource among netters who meet on tour. The book was actually constructed by ___, and the first show it was taken to was ___; ___ is credited with the idea, which is to pass along a bound collection of blank pages, from one phish-netter to another, at shows (in the lot or at pre- or post-event gatherings). To acquire the BOPH, you should ask, upon noticing it, “IS that the Book of Phriends I see in your hands?” The actual mechanics and additional guidelines for passage may be ad hoc, but rely upon the trust and solidarity which preserve this net. The primary requirement for acquiring the BOPH should be that you are going to *at least* the next show, if not a few upcoming shows, in order to preserve passage as continually and continuously as possible. Each acquirer is encouraged to sign the book (crayons or markers preferable to pencil or pen, so come to shows prepared!), as well as add inserts of photos, clippings, or drawings. Acquirers and other participants are asked to respect the nature of the excercise and, thereby, to not fill an undue amount of space. As of the last update of this FAQ, (according to Kim Hannula ) the BOPH resides with Mark Walsh , who ended up with the Book in his car after the Summer 94 Sugarbush show. Mark took the Book back to California with him, since it never made it out there on the summer tour, and reportedly plans to reintroduce it to tour in the fall of 1994. The BOPH that Mark has is reportedly (again, according to Kim) a second volume. Lemuria doesn’t know where the first volume is, or what happened to it, or why or when there became a second volume. However, given the air of uncertainty surrounding the entire enterprise, you might be interested in startin a third volume; if you do, *PLEASE* inform Lemuria (jeg5s@virginia.edu) so that this FAQ can reflect how many there are, where (i.e. show and date) they started, who (name an email id) started them, and what (size, color, material) they look like. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-11: ABBREVIATIONS: what are some common ones? --songs (use them at your own will and risk): BBFCFM: Big Black (or is it Fat) Furry Creature From Mars BBJ: Big Ball Jam or Beach Ball Jam or Big Beach Jam BATR: Bouncing Around the Room BRTR: Bouncing Round the Room FEFY: Fast Enough For You HYHU: Hold Your Head Up MSO: My Sweet One RLA or Antelope: Run Like an Antelope SITM: Silent in the Morning SOAM or just Split: Split Open & Melt TMWSIY: The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday YEM: You Enjoy Myself GTBT: Good Times Bad Times Almost every title can easily be done in one word. Except for TMWSIY, abbreviations may only lead to later confusion, whereas one-wording will be pretty darn clear, or at least real darn close. (eg Creature, Hood, Ice, Antelope....) ---Also, some general net abbreviations: BTW: by the way FYI: for your information FWIW: For what its worth PITA: Pain in the ass IMHO: in my humble/honest opinion IMNSHO: in my no so humble/honest opinion IIWY: if i were you BTGOI: by the grace of Iculus ITNOI: in the name of Iculus OTN: on the net OTR: on the road PB&J: peanut butter & jelly PB&J&B: peanut butter & jelly & bananas and, of course, the ever-popular WAYSIYEM: What Are You Saying In You Enjoy Myself? ----------------------------------------------------------------- A-12. OTHER NETS: are there other good music digests? There are hundreds of other digestified music groups; you may find a list on rec.music.misc. The following list is admittedly selective, but includes bands with which you might be familiar having talked to phish phans. From Andy (address missing): Allmans: Allman@world.std.com Blues Traveler: Dave Mattews Band (thanks to Alex Crothers): send a message to listproc@moose.uvm.edu with no subject that says "subscribe minarets " To have it digestified, send message "set minarets mail digest". to post, mail to minarets@moose.uvm.edu FAQ file available from Rick Thompson God St. Wine (via Edmund Burke): finewine@world.std.com Grateful Dead: HORDE: Horde@world.std.com Jambay: Rusted Root: Santana: santana@cats.ucsc.edu (thanks to David Konerding , list administrator) Spin Doctors: Spins@world.std.com NOTE CHANGE! REMEMBER! If u want to be added or deleted to or from any of these net lists (save DMB) PLEASE add "-request" just before the @ symbol. For example, use horde-request@world.std.com to subscribe or unsubscribe, NOT THE REGULAR ADDRESS!! The above addresses are the ones you post to in order to have *everyone* on the respective net see what you have written. ----------------------------------------------------------------- end part 2 (of 6): b: net questions keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train! ========================================================== ======= SECTION B: BAND QUESTIONS TOPICS: phish, bad hat, logo, hardcopy, online conference, tickets, mail order, venue info, photography, trampolines, vans, marley, rubber chickens, henrietta, the dude of life, horns, stage, lights, support/staff, organs, guitar, bass, drums ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-1: PHISH: who? what? got any background info? Generally: The Phish Stories & Interviews files from Phish-Archives have tons of history in them. But, briefly... The band has four members: TREY ANASTASTIO: electric and acoustic guitars, vocals, drums during Henrietta solos; = Ernest Guiseppie Anastasio III; married August 1994; see B-21, B-22, C-6 MIKE GORDON: electric bass, standup bass, vocals; from Sudbury, a suburb of Boston; see B-23. PAGE MCCONNELL: electric keys, Hammond B-3 organ, grand piano, vocals; see B-20. JON FISHMAN: drums, vocals, vacuum, "Madonna" washboard, & trombone; see B-14, B-24, C-12 If you’re trying to figure out which is which (e.g. in a photo), Trey has been likened to Kermit (though with facial hair), Page as Fozzie (for no holistic reason), Jon as Animal (for hair, drums, voice, etc), and Mike as Sam the Eagle (various reasons, none clear.) The band has been around since October 1983, having met in college in Vermont. Their syle is eclectic: jazz-fusion-funk-blues-classical-rock-etc. Live performances are known for quick song shifts, extended jams, beatiful solos, fabulous orchestration, eye-popping improvisation, & suprise fun galore for all. Short history: Trey attended the very first National Guitar Summer Workshop at the New School in New Middlebury, CT. He then went to the University of Vermont (UVM), where he immediately starting hanging up signs looking for folks with whom to play. He studied various musical forms, and credits jazz composer Ernie Stires with much inspiration. Trey had been playing with Mike and Jon, who also were playing with a harder-edged band called the Dead Grapes (not the same as the Dreadful Grapes or The Grapes.) In interviews, Jon has said that he liked playing with that other band better, but thought that Trey had a better idea of long-term plans and expression, etc. Jon told Mike that he was going to stick with Trey; Mike then did, as well. At some point prior to Jon joining, there was another drummer by the name of Marc Dowbert. (See D-2) Before Page came along, Jeff Holdsworth was another guitarist in the band. (Witness 12-1-84 Nectar's) Trey, Mike, Jon, and Jeff were, at one point, called Lamb's Bread (see first show notes from Shelly, below). Sometime during late spring of 1985, Jeff found God, decided that the the band was playing the devil's music, and went his own way; his present interests and whereabouts are unknown. Page joined sometime in May 1985, after seeing the rest of the band play at Springfest at UVM and showing quite a persistent interest. Shelly is "pretty sure that May of 85 (UVM Last Day Party, Redstone Campus) is Page's first show" and that "Jeff's on that tape, too." Shelly also notes (in 10/31/93 18:21:01 EST post) that Page got $50 each for getting Trey and Fish to transfer to Godard College from UVM when the school was trying to boost enrollment. There have been irregular additions of horn players (individually, as a trio, and in larger groups; see B-16) as well as the Dude of Life (see B-13, B-15), Tom Marshall (see D-2), Sophie Dillof, and relatives (esp. parents & grandparents; others get dedications at most) of the band. (See also HPB and Stories File; see A- 5 and A-6.) First show news, From >shell@phish.net: October 30, 1983 - at an ROTC dance, where they were so disliked that they turned the Bee Gees on over the PA while Phish was still playing. (Or so I've been told.) I'm not so sure about the story, but I know that the date is correct - just over 10 years ago. .... Nope, that show was not recorded. However, their next show - 11/3/83, basement of Slade Hall, UVM - was; I think it was taped on a boom box with condenser mikes and the tape is entirely over-saturated and distorted. The tape was labeled with felt tip on masking tape and appears to have resided on someone's car floor or dashboard for a few years. No, copies of this tape are not available - but I can try to post the setlist some day, if I ever figure it out. ;-) [Setlist not yet provided.] ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-2: BAD HAT: what is it? Any other bands these four are in? The Jazz Mandolin Project (now known as Bad Hat) played around Vermont during January and February 1994 and includes Jamie Masefield on mandolin, Fishman on drums, Trey on guitar, and Stacey Starkweather on bass. Jon plays in the Dude of Life’s band (see B-15), which toured in early 1994, and on _Lost Paradox_ (see C-13). ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-3: LOGO: what’s goin’ on in there? am I seeing stuff? The dot on the front, just above what appears to be a mouth, might very well be a nose, except that fish don't have noses. Could also be the actual mouth or an eye, hairlip, tumor, intake valve/jet, decoration, or missing dot from the 'i'. Also, is the top of the 'h' really a fin? And is there really something hidden/written in the tail? There are four potential images of pipes/bowls. Some claim to have seen a Lizard. How about a turbaned guitar player? Turn the logo 90 degrees couterclockwise and it's a guy: the fish face is a turban, the tail becomes feet, the S becomes arms holding an invisible guitar, he's looking to the side. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-4: HARDCOPY: is there a newsletter, fanzine, etc? There is a newsletter put out from the band’s office. You can get on the mailing list by writing (NEW ADDRESS as of 4-28-93 was c/o Dionysian Productions, 1632 Mass Ave, Lexington, MA 02173; current address is given as P.O. Box 219, Lexington, MA, 02173). There have been sporadic reports, not at all supportive, of a "fanzine" called Phish Traders, which was not endorsed by the band. No other info is available, nor has been since April 1993. A 2/9/94 post by howdy1959@aol.com announced a “phanzine”, called _Ewe Enjoy Ourselves_ and announced a search for serious contributors and tape ads. The first issue was due April 1994, though no confirmation of any such occurance is at hand. The snail-mail address was given as c/o Tom Moretti, 882 Rt. 212, Saugerties, NY, 12477. A new Martha's Vineyard-based, student-targeted paper was to be started early Summer, 1993, featuring a weekly Phish column. Lemuria was to write it, but the paper’s founders lost email access without giving Lemuria either the name of the publication or a snail mail address. No confirmation of any such column is at hand. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-5: ONLINE CONFERENCE: is there going to be one? when? From: Shelly Culbertson Date: Thu Apr 21 01:05:56 EDT 1994 The Phish Online Conference has been postponed [indefinitely], due to unavoidable obligations on the part of the band. We will post information about a new date to phish-info and the Phish digest [which is cross-posted to the newsgroup rec.music.phish]. The conference will occur within the next several months. Lemurianote: as of 9/17/94, no such conference has occurred. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-6: TICKETS: how can I get ticket & venue info? Option a) Hotline: 617-862-7820 (new as of 4-28-93); includes new 3-line answering system option; if taper, see E-2 option b) newsletter (see B-4) option c) watch the net (see A-1, A-6) option d) archives (see A-5, A-6) To note, shows for the remainder of 1994 go Oct. 7 through Nov. 4, Nov. 12 through Dec. 10, and Dec. 28 through Dec. 31. The first shows of 1995 will not be until July. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-7: MAIL ORDER: how’s it being done so far? So far, only for tapers’ tickets, for which there is a separate hotline. (See recent message transcribed below.) From: Jeff Maggard Date: Feb 28, 1994 [edited Sept. 16, 1994 for updates] For selected shows with reserved seating, there will be a section of seats reserved for taping, available by mail order only. Only a limited number of seats will be held for this mail order. These seats will be directly behind the soundboard; the view from them will be somewhat obstructed. So that there will be enough taping seats for the folks who actually need them, please don't order these tickets unless you intend to tape. A taper's ticket will be required in order to bring recording equipment into some shows [see second part of this FAQ answer.] Orders will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis, by postmark. Each person may send only one order; duplicate orders will not be filled. You should send separate envelopes for each show; each ‘94 Beacon Theatre (three in a row) was considered a separate show, and therefore required a separate money order; this applies to toher strings of consecutive shows in one city. PLEASE NOTE: Due to time and space limitations, it may not always be possible to provide taper ticket information in the newsletter. However, it will always be available on the hotline and on the Phish.Net, so if you want to be sure not to miss it, stay in touch with those sources. We thank you for your continued cooperation. Phish hotline: 617.862.7820 Shelly The Phish Tapers Hotline number is 617.862.2128 From: shell@phish.net (Shelly Culbertson) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 18:47:48 -0400 Subject: Tapers' Hotline Message -- 9/7/94 You've reached the Phish tapers hotline. This is a new message as of September 7th. Tapers' tickets will be available by mail order for selected upcoming Phish shows. Please note that only a limited number of seats for each venue are held for the tapers' mail order. These seats will be directly behind the soundboard and the view from them will be somewhat obstructed. So that there will be enough taping seats for the people who need them, please don't plan on ordering these tickets unless you intend to tape. Phish permits audio recording only; video taping is never allowed. All Phish audio taping is for non-commercial home use only. At shows where tapers' tickets have been made available by mail-order, a taper's ticket will be required in order to bring recording equipment into the show. Following are the shows and mail-order ticket prices for the Phish Fall Tour shows where special tapers' tickets will be required. October 8th, the Patriot Center, Fairfax, Virginia; $22.50; October 9th, A. J. Palumbo Center, Pittsburgh, Penn.; $21.00; October 10th, Palace Theatre, Louisville, Kentucky; $21.00; October 12th, Orpheum Theatre, Memphis, Tennessee; $20.00; October 14th, McAlister Auditorium, New Orleans, Louisiana; $19.00; October 15th, Oak Mountain Amphitheatre, Pelham, Alabama; $18.50; October 16th, Memorial Auditorium, Chattanooga, Tenn.; $21.00; October 20th, Mahaffey Theatre, St. Petersburg, Florida; $22.00; October 21st, Sunrise Theatre, Sunrise, Florida; $21.25; October 25th, Civic Center Theatre, Atlanta, Georgia; $22.00; October 28th, Gaillard Auditorium, Charleston, South Carolina; $20.00; October 29th, Memorial Aud., Spartanburg, So. Carolina; $20.00; October 31st, Glens Falls Civic Center, Glens Falls, New York; $21.00; November 3rd, Mullins Center, Amherst, Massachusetts; $21.00; and November 4th, Onondaga Cty War Memorial, Syracuse, NY; $21.00. Here are the mail-order instructions for Phish Fall Tour tapers' tickets. Orders will be filled on a first-come first-serve basis by postmark. All orders must be postmarked between September 12th and September 15th; orders postmarked before September 12th or after September 15th will not be filled. You may order a maximum of two tickets per show. You may order as many shows as you like in one envelope; however, you must enclose a separate money order for each show. Each person may send only one order; duplicate orders will not be filled. Each person must fill out their own order. Send your order in a #10 (legal) size envelope. Put your return address on the outside of the envelope, and also write on it which shows you are ordering tickets for, and how many tickets for each show. In your order please include a 3x5 card with your name, address and telephone number in the upper left hand corner. Write on the card which shows you are ordering tickets for, and how many tickets per show. Also enclose a self-addressed, stamped #10 legal size envelope with 29 cents postage for up to four tickets, and an additional 23 cents postage for each four tickets after that. The ticket prices listed in this message include a $2.50 per ticket handling charge. Payment must be in the form of a postal money order or an American Express money order only; no checks. The money order should be made payable to Phish. If you wish to have your tickets returned to you by registered mail, add $6 to your payment for this service. Keep your receipt; if we cannot fill your order, we will return your money order to you. Send your orders to: Phish Tapers' Tickets, P. O. Box 130, Lexington, MA 02173. At all other Phish shows for which special tapers' tickets are not available by mail order, admission to the tapers' section will be first-come, first-serve at the door, except for the following: At Stabler Arena on October 7th and at Vanderbilt University on October 18th, though there are reserved seat sections, the taping section will be in the general admission part of the venue and a general admission ticket will be required in order to tape at these shows. There will be no tapers' ticket mail order for these shows. At the general admission shows, the size of the tapers section will be limited, and when it has become full no more recording equipment will be allowed into the venue. Therefore you should arrive early if you plan to tape at these shows. Thank you for calling; additional information will be added to this message as it becomes available. For general tour information, call the Phish Hotline at 617.862.7820. E-1 for equipment notes. Please see E-2 for taping etiquette. Please see E-4 and E-13 for notes about approaching tapers for tapes at shows. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-8: VENUE INFO: Where can I find info about venues? Qs: Can I get directions to the venues Phish plays? Any highway tolls I should know about? If I need lodging, is there someplace I can stay nearby? Does the venue have a parking fee? Are there picnic areas? What's the surrounding area like, anyway? (...Have I asked enough questions?) A: Answers to these and other mind-benders are in the fabulous Venue File, compiled and prepared by Joe D'Andrea. If you have any questions, suggestions or contributions, don't hesitate to email Joe: 76336.1715@compuserve.com To get the file, see A-5 and A-6. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-9: PHOTOGRAPHY: can i do it inside shows? why not? From dre.... PHISH ONLY ALLOWS PHOTOGRAPHY WITH A SIGNED PASS FROM THE BAND/MANAGEMENT The passes are usually worn around the neck so that at a glance Security can see that you are legit. A few things about this: (A) These photographers who manage to get passes are for the most part professionals and work for publications. (B) They are usually NOT found in the audience! Like tapers, photographers don't need crowds in their way and they need lots of movement to get the shot they want. (Not to mention expensive as hell equipment that could be damaged) A word or two about STEALTH PHOTOGRAPHY: JUST DON'T DO IT! ( i am yelling) Let me explain why.... A few years back, before Phish hit it big, they didn't mind the photog popping up every once in awhile (like myself). The venues were relatively small and after a show you could offer the photos to the band. PLUS, the photogs had *real* cameras, not point and shoots with flashes going off all over the place! (a real issue of concern) All of this changed when Phish got more popular and everyone who wanted pictures just grabbed any ole thing to take the shots. The result was annoying flashes in the band's eye all night long. Of course there were photogs too, but even they got more out of hand, sometimes pushing their way upfront to get a shot and disturbing everyone around them. Needless to say, the scene was getting out of hand and then one day (Lemurian note: beginning between 3/21/92 and 3/25/92) *BANG*! The pass policy was put into motion and things have been better since...well sort of. SNEAKERS, as I call them, started to take pictures WITHOUT PERMISSION. I've seen more cameras grabbed up front near the stage than I don't know what. These people ruin it for non-professionals (like myself) who want the band to ease up on their policy so we can maybe get passes. However, if these SNEAKERS persist it will not happen anytime soon. :^( SO....DON'T bring a camera inside any of the shows unless you have permission (from the band, not the venue) and DON'T videotape any shows. (Nuff'said) If you really want a pass bad, GO THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS! (call public relations or even speak with the band after the show) I hope this has been helpful; email me personally if you still have questions. dre (williama@kenyon.edu) ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-10: TRAMPOLINES: plus, what happens to the old ones? Trampolines have been used for many years by Trey and Mike, for some combinaton of reasons from among at least the following suggested OTN: timing of difficult sections, timing during crazy jams, fun, exercise, jovial entertainment, so they can see pholks in the back, so pholks in the back can see them, to dry out their hair... okay, the last three weren't on the net, but are plausible. The 'tramps' have been used in at least the following: Mike's Song (right before I Am Hyrdogen), YEM, Antelope(?), Runaway Jim (?), Wilson (?). The first appearance was NOT 5/6/90 during Mike's Song (though it is uncertain "when YEM stopped being the only tramp song") but at the Woodbury Ski & Racket Club, Woodbury, CT, 4/29/90 during YEM; they were left on stage afterwards and revisited for Walk Away. There have been multiple mini-trampoline giveaways, apparently as they loosen & wear out & are replaced. Piou Qwerty (?) got one 4-5-93 (the night they introduced the pink & blue ones) after helping "break down the band's gear." Ian Harbilas got one 12/7/91. He saw the show with a school trip group from Brewster Academy, which included one girl who seriously thought they were going to the aquarium & was somewhat dissappointed. After some unfortunate pulling & tugging, during which the tramp lost some brown cloth border & all but four legs, rock paper scissors (see border on the front of the 92 NYE shirt) was played in three rounds. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-11: VANS: when did the band give it away? to whom? The van keys were tossed to an audience & caught by Toast (Eric) who picked up the pink slip backstage & sold the van a week later to a used-car dealer for about $1000. Rumor/legend has it that a significant "relic of some sort" had been embedded in the van by someone related to the band; hmmmm... maybe it'll end up in the Smithsonian or something. Only Iculus knows for sure. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-12: MARLEY: who is that? From: shell@phish.net Marley is a very energetic, mixed-breed-but-mostly-golden-retriever kind of dog. She's very sweet and protective of Trey.... And please - don't speak of Marley in the past tense! We all hope that she'll be around to play with us for a long time. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-13: RUBBER CHICKENS: have one? what’s on it? The Dude of Life (see B-15) has thrown rubber chickens into the audience at past appearances. Each chicken reportedly has band signatures and a story part; two parts have been claimed but not revealed; if you have one of these chickens, please let Lemuria know; he will hook you up with other chicken owners, and you can compare the story. Also, if you have one, please transcribe whats written on it and submit it for the Stories File (see A-5 & A-6) so that they can be archived. From: edeli@eagle.wesleyan.edu I've got a story about a show I saw in Toronto on August 9, 1993. It was the end of the second set and Trey announced that The Dude of Life was here to sing a song. After his song he proceeded to toss little gifts into the audience. I was lucky enough to catch a large rubber chicken that was signed by the band and had little messages from the band. Here they are: From Trey: "Today we kill, Tomorrow we die." From Mike: "Each man to his grave as one to his slave" From Page: "Live free or die now." From the Dude of Life: "Andy Gibb is dead." And for the message which spurred my curiousity the most: from Mike: "One day I'll have such an orgasm that my..." (To be continued on next bird) The bird has a number two on the feet so I figure there is someone else with the end of John Fishman's story on their own rubber chicken. So, if you know anything about other chickens including chicken number one please contact me. I'm really curious about what the significance of this chicken catching is and if this means that I have to go on tour! Ned Edeli@eagle.wesleyan.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-14: HENRIETTA: who is that? (and other nicknames) Henrietta is one of many nicknames for Jon Fishman, the drummer, noticeable for his inconsistent hair and goofy dresses (esp. a baggie brown thing with yellow spots and a long white one with eyes on it. David Skalinder notes that Fishman always wears a dress onstage. Other nicknames include John the Fishman (1984); Tubbs (Rift liner notes); the hardest man in show business, after a fun photo from a show; Zero man; Henrietta Tubman, Tubman; Sultan of Swat (Sweat?); Missing Link; Central Scrutinizer; Showboat Gertrude (esp. with the trombone); Moses Brown, Moses Heaps, Moses Dewitt (one show; which one?); the man with the high hat (regarding Trey’s conveyance of one of Fishman’s hobbies); Marco Esquandolis (see D-2); second best trombone player in Vermont & parts of New Hampshire; Eye Ball man (after the white dress); the Yo Yo Ma of vacuum cleaners (one show; which one?); Captain Caveman (and Trey is Shaggy); Vinnie Barbarito (2/23/90); the fourth member of the Giant Country Horns and Phish's multi- instrumentalist (both 7/21/91?); Hankrietta, the shortest man in rock and roll (3/19/91); the Piper (5/1/92); Little John, Friar Tubbs, & Henrietta Fieldberg (3/9/93); and Greasy Physique (beginning 12/31/93 and in Hoist liner notes). Information on any others, & dates on any of these, would be _most_ appreciated. When not on drums, Henrietta plays vacuum (Electrolux, variously 1963/4/5), trombone, and “Madonna” washboard (shiny thing with pointy breasts; made by New Orleans artist and acquired circa 1993 Tipitina’s show). (Trey plays drums during Tubbs’ front-of-stage solos). Tubbs has performed solo or lead on the following tunes: Love You (aka Honey Love, see D-12) and Terrapin (both written by the Crazy Diamond himself, Sid Barret; see B-14, D-12), Lengthwise (original on Rift), Cracklin Rosie (Neil Diamond tune), Big Black Furry Creatures From Mars (rollicking hard core original), Touch Me (Doors tune), the infamous Prison Joke (don't ask me; go find the tape: 4-11-91 Carleton encore), !Kung (a poem/chant Fish wrote years ago, which makes reference to a Kalahari hunter/gatherer culture), If I Only Had a Brain (from the Wizard of Oz), Faht (a fishman original, on Picture of Nectar; previously known as Windham Hell), Minute by Minute (a ___ tune), Purple Rain (yes, the Prince song; started summer 93), the Great Gig in the Sky (Pink Floyd cover; start spring 93?), and, of course, band introductions. He arrives from behind the drums to Mike and Page playing either Hold Your Head Up (Argent, early 70s) or Cold As Ice (Foreigner) just as Trey takes over on drums. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-15: THE DUDE OF LIFE: who is that? Steve Pollack (NOT Steve Volato; that's a false rumor.) Shows up irregularly, infrequently, and (as far as we can tell) randomly, in odd attire for silly songs. See, for example, in rubber mask throwing rubber chickens and pushing a lawn mower singing Diamond Girl (Seals & Crofts tune) on 12-31-92. RE these chickens, see B-13. From: shell@phish.net (Press Release from DoL Jan/Feb 94 World Tour) For over a decade and a half, the Dude of Life has been writing songs in the tradition of The Velvet Underground, David Bowie, T-Rex and Iggy Pop. In his ongoing collaboration with Phish, he has contributed the lyrics to such classics as Dinner and a Movie, Suzie Greenberg and Fluffhead, and he occasionally appears with the band in various disguises which involve the use of tools ranging from lawnmowers to rubber chickens. The Dude's tour will feature songs from his recently recorded project with Phish, Crimes of the Mind, to be released in the fall by Elektra. He lives in New York City. Supporting the Dude on drums will be Jon Fishman. Jon has been playing drums with Phish for the past ten years as well as appearing with the Johnny B. Fishman jazz quartet. A native of Syracuse, New York, Jon now lives in a dome in Vermont with a habitrail full of wild mice. Dan Archer, who plays guitar with the band, is the proprietor and engineer of Archer studios in Vermont. With past appearances with Pork Tornado and with J. Willis Pratt to his credit, Dan says, "When the Dude calls, duty calls!" Aaron Hersey, on bass, is a veteran of numerous New England rock'n'roll, jazz, reggae, country and soul reviews, such as Big Bass In Your Face, The Fleshspoids, The Martin Guigui Band, and Stanley Reamer and the Non-Dairy Creamers. A fabulous personality and a charming host, his vim and vigor have wowed audiences of all ages for nearly a fifth of a decade. Phil Abair, keyboards, has been in the music business nearly twenty years as a performer, composer, and studio musician. He has performed as vocalist, keyboard player, bassist and guitarist in groups throughout New England including The Abair Brothers Band, High Rollers, The Showstoppers, and Shattered, a Rolling Stones review that appeared widely in the Northeast for over five years. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-16: HORNS: who are they? when did they play with Phish? A horn section -- the Giant Country Horns, named after a brand of bread in New Hampshire -- toured with Phish during summer of 91 for about 20 shows, mostly (if not all) during July. They included: Dave "the truth" Grippo on sax, Russel "rem man" Remington on sax, & Carl "Gears" Gearhart on trumpet. The three of them wore tuxedos, for instance, at 3-25-92 Trax. [Did they _always_ wear tuxedos?] Carl & Russel, & perhaps Dave, have also played as solo horns at these shows: Carl at 3-24-92 Floodzone, Richmond, VA; others??? A larger group of horns came on for 1994 Spring tour shows (Beacon Theatre third night, New Orleans, Los Angeles). [More info needed here; archive not responding with HPB] Songs particularly known for being played with the band include Gumbo (original, rarely played since), Frankenstein (great cover), & Suzy (original, frequently played without horns). There had been discussions on the net since the horn tour about when or if there will/could/should be another horn tour; the periodic horn bust-outs during 1994 were a long awaited surprise. No response from the band has surfaced. Your best bet is the occassional appearance of ONE of the horns, though who knows when we might be surprised. For no clear reason, one netter insists that you should watch for horns during even-numbered years. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-17: STAGE: who designed the aquarium? what’s it look like? For the NYE run (12/28-31/93), the band used a “new stage designed by Chris McGregor, who has worked with West Coast eccentrics the Residents.” (Boston Globe, 12/31/93) The stage set resembled an aquarium. In a rectangle around the floor of the stage itself was a rim of black with a broken outline of the glass aquarium walls, a bit higher in the corners and more open across the front and sides; a similar rectangle hung above and outlined the top of the aquarium. Behind Mike and Trey, at center back of stage, was a large clam. Surrounding the drums and keys were large (paper mache? Styrofoam?) replicas coral, aquairium plants, gravel, etc. Eight or so fish hung from the rafters down into the “aquarium.” At the close of the second set, the band changed into diving outfits as the vocal jam died down. Trey announced “We’re going on one last adventure” and they left stage. During the break, the PA played not the water-related tunes (Take Me to the River, Red Rain, Here Comes the Flood, Black Water, The Flood) of earlier setbreaks, but new agish noises and bubbling water. To start the third set, the band, in wet suits, entered the aquarium from a platform above, “diving” in, exploring, and entering the clam, which by this point had opened. Once all were in, the clam shut, rose 10 or so feet into the air, opened, burped, counted down the last 10 seconds of the year, and shot lights and confetti into the air, at which time the band returned (sans wetsuits), entering from stage right. The aquarium set has not been used since 12/31/93, presumably due to the expense and hassles of transportation and installation, though much to the chagrin of many who enjoyed it and many more (esp. on the West Coast) who couldn’t make it to that NYE run. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-18: LIGHTS: who designed them movin lights up thar? From: cyclone143@aol.com (Cyclone143) Subject: Answers to your Lighting Questions Date: Thu Jul 07 07:25:02 EDT 1994 Just to set a few facts straight about the lights: I operated the Altstar system for Chris on the 1993 Summer Tour so I can answer any questions you all might have about the "moving" lights. I also previously worked for Theatrix, the supplier of the stationary lights, so send your questions my way.... The Altstar Starbeams are a "moving" or "automated" or "intellegent" lighting unit. They are comparable to Vari*Lites, which are the industry standard you might see on many other tours, including the Dead, and on TV. Intellabeams are another unit seen often at raves and clubs and on smaller tours. The key differences are the capabilities of the units. The Vari*Lite is a whole unit that tilts and pivots. The Intellabeam is stationary and has a single mirror in the beam of light that "wiggles" over about 120 degrees in an x and y direction. The Altstar is a stationary unit with TWO mirrors mounted in a periscope-like configuration that can spin the beam a full 360 degrees in either direction. It is much faster than the Vari and can move in continuous circles instead of having to oscillate. The Altstar has about 120 usable colors mixed by 3 wheels of dichroic (pure color) glass. Color changing can "roll" as in YEM or "snap" in 2/10 sec. There are 7 rotatable (variable speed, bi-directional) patterns and 7 stationary patterns which can overlay to create shimmering effects (as in the "stained glass" effect scanning at the beginning of the 2001 theme. Chris selects the patterns, including the PHISH logos which were custom made. There is also a 2 to 1 zoom and focus, a dimming shutter, and an iris (beam size control) all the functions are independently contollable. In an improvisational tune like the YEM vocal solos, Chris can "play" the functions live in time with the music. for other complex looks, the functions are pre-arranged and recorded into cue sequences that can be played back with the touch of a button. This was used for the scanning color dots-upsweeping orange beams-snap open white for the 2001 theme bit that started many second sets in 1993. The stationary lights (PAR Cans) are controlled by a separate control board through a complete separate system. Usually, Chris would run the PAR cans, fog, strobes and would tell me what to do with the Altstars. Due to the jamming nature of the show and the band's tendency to wander from their setlist (yes, there's usually a "tentative" set list) and the complexity of the Altstar system, it was often a real challenge to have the right one out of 200 cues ready at the instant Chris wanted it. Hope this answers a few questions! Drop me a line if you have more! Peace. Paul "Cyclone" From: Larry “the Lobster” Lieberman Hello Phish Fans! If you don’t know who or what Alstar is, let me explain. Alstar is the name of our company. We supply all of the moving lights on the Phish tour. We have just completed our third tour with Phish. Phish and Blues Traveler have been the testing ground for the Starbeam (the moving light). Phish’s lighting designer Chris Koruda has contributed greatly to the design of the Alstar system. If it were not for Chris’ unique lighting style and skill as a lighting designer, we could not stand behind our product with as much confidence as we do today. Alstar’s system has run bug-free for the last three months. We plan on continuing our relationship with Phish and look forward to seeing you I nthe crowd. I would like to thank Chris Koruda for taking the chance. I think it has paid off for everyone involved. If you have comments or questions about the Alstar system, you can address them to Altman Stage Lighting, 57 Alexander Street, Yonkers, NY, 10701, Attn: Roger Pujol. -- Larry (product manager) ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-19: SUPPORT: who are they? what do they do? Lemuria is still looking for help on this, but... Paul Languedoc is the Soundman and the builder of Mike's bass and Trey's guitar. (See B-21 and B-22) He is very nice, but _very_ busy before and during shows; please let him do his job. Brad Sands is the "Balloon Tech" (for 12-31-93) & Guitar Technician, and was the Mockingbird 12-31-92. Pete Schall runs monitors; watch for him getting on stage, putting on headphones, and sitting down with a grin *just* before the house lights dim and a set or encore starts. Andrew ("Andy") Fishback is the Tour Manager at shows. Wears a hip pack at all time. He was the merchandise man after Claw Me Down (ie summer '90 until Brad was hired.) It has been suggested that you ask for "Mr. Fishback, the band's Tour Manager" if security hassles you for taping at a show where you suspect taping is not specifically prohibited (it is with Santana) or if you are hassled bringing in taping equipment to a show at which you know taping is okay. NOTE: For some shows, you'll need a taping ticket to bring in taping equipment!!! (See B-7, E-1, E-2) Chris Kuroda is Lighting Designer. (See B-18) Larry “*the* Lobster” Lieberman is Chris' new lighting technician. (See B-18) Bob Neumann provides sound support from Snow Sound, who provide Phish's sound system. Amy Skelton (as in Amy's Farm) is the Production Manager & is "doing the merchandise more often than Brad."-Rich Fromm Shelly Culbertson has been a tremendous help with, on, in, as, & for the phish net and with and for the band, as an employee of Dionysian Productions, the band's management agency. She assists John Paluska, the band's manager, and helps maintain the phish archives, and handles all of the tapers’ tickets mail ordering (see B-7) herself!! You may see her at the merchandise table or, occasionally, somewhere near the stage. She is wonderful, and is all-too-often hassled on the net for information, rumor confirmation, tapes, etc.; if you have the opportunity to meet her, she deserves much thanks, not more requests. Betty Frost reads all letters written to the band. (See B-4 for band address) According to Mike (Doniac Schvice, Oct/Nov 1994; see B-4 for mailing list address), “Unfortunately, the mail has grown to the point where I can’t attend to all of it and practice my bass. So in order to concentrate on music, I’ll have to stop reading all the mail. Because we care a lot about those who correspond, the contents of each letter will be conveyed to the band by Betty Frost. She will send the band paraphrases of the letters, and she will try to answer some ofthe questions that people ask. Band members will still read as many letters as possible. In general, those of you who write will be communicating through Betty Frost. We will continue to select special missives for the “Letters” column, a staple of the Schvice. We’ll also continue to sve each letter written in our archives. Thanks to all of you who became my pen-pals.” John Paluska is the band’s manager, is an employee of the band’s management agency, Dionysian Productions (617-862-8850), and has been for at least three years. Jay Fialkov is the band's lawyer. [Contact address requested] Elektra does the printing, marketing, & sales of releases. One netter asked, “Do they count?” You bet they do! Also, Shelly notes, "Please note that people grow and change, so don't be surprised if you see old faces in new positions or vice versa." (Sorry, all: you deserve *much* more credit than these simple IDs can give!!! and, hey, netters: dont forget to thank them at shows!) ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-20: ORGANS: what can you tell me about Page's setup? The speaker with the front inside spinner is a Leslie speaker (with built-in tube amplifier), an integral part of the organ sound. The tweeter & woofer spin in opposite directionse(speed is controlled by the organist) creating a vibrato effect. Even with today's digital technology, it's difficult to create just the right organ sound w/o the Leslie speaker. At a concert, the sound from the speaker is picked up by anywhere from 1-4 microphones & sent through the PA system. Also, in the rear-center of the stage is a speaker in a wooden cabinet w/ a mike just a bit in front of it & aimed at it. That cabinet is part of Trey's electric guitar system. Placing a mic right in front of a speaker seems counter-intuitive. After all, we could just take the signal directly & cut down on the distortion caused by the speaker & mic. But consider the speaker actually part of the musical instrument, & it starts to make more sense. The speaker's coloring of the sound is part of the overall sound the guitarist is trying to achieve. The _whole_ instrument is the combination of the guitar, amp, & speaker. Some guitarists, & most bassists do choose to send their signals directly to the PA instead of through the mic. The speaker's coloring is favored for lead guitar but is often undesirable for other guitar & bass. From: Jonathan Dennis Kirshbaum 2 things about leslie cabinets. 1st, I believe that the source of the neat sound is the doppler effect, the same phenomena that makes ambulance sirens lower in pitch as they drive away. The vibrato is cause by the speakers sound going a small distance farther away & closer as the leslie rotates. 2nd, the speaker(s) inside the cabinet do not actually rotate. The inside of the leslie that I saw had a woofer lying on the bottom of the cabinet, face up, & fixed. Above it was a simple structure that deflected the sound 90 degrees, kind of an elbow arrangement. It was this that actually spun. Page recently got a *really nice sounding* Hammond (check summer 92), & later (February 93) a grand piano. He had said he wouldnt play "Loving Cup" til he had the latter; sure enough, check the setlists for Feb 93. (To find old setlists, see A-5 and A-6.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-21: GUITAR: what can you tell me about Trey's setup? From a post by R. Stern Trey's guitar was built by Paul Languedoc, the soundman for the band (see July 91 newsletter for a phish profile on Paul). Paul also built Mike's bass. [A 2nd was stolen :-(, summer 92? Will be OBVIOUS if found! see note at end of this answer] Trey uses a Mesa/Boogie MkIII head pre-amp, (with Russian tubes: "Sovtek 5881" -- shelley). Here's the best I can remember off the top of my head. Some could be off by +-1. Pre Volume: 10 !! Lead Drive: 2.5 Treble: 5 Lead Master: 6 Mid: 4.5 Master: 3 Bass: 4.5 Presence: 2 (on back of the amp) Reverb: 0 (he uses the Microverb) There is an Alesis Microverb (not II) sitting on top of his amp. He uses a Large 2 or Large 3 setting. He doesn't vary it at all...reaches for it quite often & just touches the knobs without changing the settings :-). His pedalboard has a volume pedal, a cheapo Ross(?) compresser, 2 Ibanez tube screamers, & the lead/rhythm switchbox for the Mesa (maybe more...). The Tube Screamers are the new version Tube Screamer Classic. Both have the volume turned all the way up, which really confused me at first. He doesn't seem to get much of volume boost when switching them on, & mine gives a huge boost if I set the volume all the way up. What I think happens is this: since his Mesa Pre-Volume is at 10, the input is already overdriven. So when he switches in the Tube Screamers, they can't drive any more volume out of the pre- amp, & simply give more overdrive. That's my best guess anyway :-). One of the keys to his cool tone is the way he uses the Tube Screamers & the Mesa lead mode. He has the Mesa eq switched to only work for lead mode, & he sets the eq in an upside down V (lots of mid boost, lots of high cut). One Tube Screamer is set for a very light crunch, & the other is set for full screaming overdrive. Trey will often start with a light crunch, then turn that off & turn on the full overdriver. Then he'll turn back on the crunch (so he has both Tube Screamers on!). Then he'll kick in the Mesa to lead mode for a final push over the edge :-) !! By mixing & matching any combination of the 3 distortions, he gets an incredible variety of tones. Add in the unique feedback properties of his semi-hollowbody guitar, & wow ... Yes, he does sound quite amazing!! I highly recommend getting a spot against the stage (at a show with a low stage) where you can see his pedalboard, & check out how he switches between the Tube Screamers & Mesa lead mode etc. (it's also a good spot for trying to see some licks/chords that he uses) but note... A letter from Paul Languedoc to Tony J. Went: Thanks for your interest. There is no big mystery about the construction of Trey's guitar (except the secret "Sonic Enhancer"). It is _not_ a semi-hollow body, but a true hollow body, built the same way those big arch-top jazz guitars were built, but, of course, much smaller. No one builds guitars that way because they tend to feed back at any volume to speak of, but Trey likes that because he can hold any note he wants to (with careful muting of the other strings) where most electric guitars would only feed back certain notes, & at a much higher volume level. Incidentally, the woods used are European Curly maple for the top, domestic curly maple for the neck, Ebony for the fretboard, tailpiece, etc., & Padauk for the body & sides. Yes, Padauk is a rain-forest wood, & I don't buy it anymore. Discussion on the net has surfaced asking what kind of pickups are on Paul's guitar and what gauge strings Trey plays. Any help (or even educated guesses) would be appreciated. From Shelly: The stolen bass is a 5-string bass with an inlay of an asian- style dragon in mother of pearl on the headstock. It also has Paul Languedoc's name inlaid into it. It looks like the Languedoc bass that Mike is still using. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-22: TREY’S SUSTAIN: what's the longest that he's held a note? Farleydude wrote: I believe that the longest sustained note by Trey was YEM at Roseland. I'm not quite sure how long it was for but I know that it was the longest I have ever heard. shell@phish.net wrote: I think that Trey's longest note would be the one in YEM from the Coach House in San Juan Capistrano on 8/17/92 (I believe). I haven't timed it, but I think it was around 4 minutes (during which time his guitar strap came unfastened, he refastened it, it came loose again, he threw the strap in the audience, and Brad came out and put a new strap on Trey's guitar - all while jumping on the trampoline, and he never stopped playing that note....). RandyWard@aol.com responded: I just listened to 8/17/92 - San Juan Capistrano. They do not play YEM, but in Hydrogen Trey does hold a note for a long time. But, it's only 3:45 (I timed it), not 4:00 as previously stated. ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-23: BASS: What can you tell me about Mike's bass setup? From: matt%opine@cs.umass.edu (Matt Laurence): Languedoc 5-string custon bass made of koa with 5-piece glue on neck, customized bridge, abalone inlays done by Paul and dual active pickups by a Scandinavian guy named Morch (the o should have a slash through it and it's pronounced sort of like Muyeerk) that have a ridiculous number of options and pre-amp controls (I counted, and I think it has like ten separate controls). He uses (or at least at the time I interviewed him) a Boss OC-2 octave pedal, Electro-Harmonix Dr. Q envelope filter pedal, Ibanez Tube Screamer for distortion and an ADA MB-1 which he got about a year ago. He plays through a 1500 watt Crest power amp, a Yamaha Crossover and a dbx compressor (neither of whick I know model numbers of). Oh yeah, he had a second bass simpler than the current one, that was stolen a few years ago, made of a different wood. And I think Paul is or was building him a hollow body. From Bass Player Magazine interview/story: Gordon's primary instrument is a custom koa 5-string designed and built by Phish's soundman, Paul Languedoc. The one-of-a-kind bass has a five-piece glued-on neck, customized bridge, abalone inlays, dual active M0rch pickups, and a befuddling array of preamp options. Bass Oc-2 octaver, Electro-Harmonix Dr. Q envelope filter, and Ibanez Tube Screamer pedals sit alongside the foot-switch for his ADA MB-1 preamp. Mike's setup also includes a 1500-watt Crest power amp, Yamaha crossover, and dbx compressor. Preamp and effects settings gather no moss in Gordon's rig, since experimentation is the keystone of Phish's sound. Mike often alters his settings during a song just to see how they affect the overall mood. Pointing to the ten separate controls on his bass, he adds with a laugh, "I don't even know what all this stuff does. I'm just figuring out MIDI and I'm always playing with new techniques, so I've got a lot to learn. But that never ends-which is good, you know?" From: Zemophonz@aol.com Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 00:44:32 EDT excerpts from article by Matt Laurence “Mike Gordon Curling Nose Hairs With Phish” See interview file for: Bass Player November 1993 Gordon's primary instrument is a custom kos 5-string designed and built by Phish's soundman, Paul Languedoc. The one-of-a-kind bass has a five-piece glued-on neck, customized bridge, abalone inlays, dual active Morch pickups, and a befuddling array of preamp options. Boss OC-2 octaver, Electro-Harmonix Dr. Q envelopefilter, and Ibanez Tube Screamer pedals sit alongside the footswitch for his ADA MB-1 preamp. Mike's setup also includes a 1500-watt Crest power amp, Yamaha crossover, and dbx compressor. Preamp and effects settings gather no moss in Gordon's rig, since experimentation is the keystone of Phish's sound. Mike often alters his settings during a song just to see how they affect the overall mood. Pointing to the ten separate controls on his bass, he adds with a laugh, " I don't even know what all of this stuff does. I'm just figuring out MIDI and I'm always playing with new techniques. But thats never ends - which is good, you know?" (c) 1993 Miller Freeman Inc., All Rights Reserved From: mws128@psu.edu (Spinkle) Subject: Re: Mike's Fat Bass Mike uses an ADA MB-1 preamp, which provides him with almost all of the sounds he uses. However, he also favors a Boss OC-1 ocatve pedal which produces the note he plays and the same note an octave lower. So usually he just uses it when he's soloing or screwing around, like the jam portion of Mike's song. They work best when you just play the high strings. It also has a setting to play a note two octaves below the one you play, but since it's a bass that would be real muddy, so he generally just leaves it on the one octave setting. This pedal goes for around $80 new, about $40 used, and accounts for what I usually refer to as his "fat" bass sound. Otherwise, it's just the preamp. ADA preamps are damn expensive but sound oh-so-good. (I don't know what this means, but the only settings I've seen Mike have it on are 121, 125, and 126...but I remember from Buffalo this year that he had it set on 126 during Down with Disease) ----------------------------------------------------------------- B-24: DRUMS: What can you tell me about Jon's drums setup? Well... not much yet. I'm still hoping that someone will volunteer info for this section. From: Jacob F Pegg Someone asked what kind of cymbals Fishman uses. He may use a mix of things, but I'm fairly sure that he uses primarily Zildjian 'K' crashes, rides, and hi-hats. The only reason I know is that our drummer Jeff uses K's, and he just about "jazzed" when he saw that Fishman was using the same. Now all I need to know about Fish's drumming is how he triggers the flex-a-tone in "Fee." ----------------------------------------------------------------- end part 3(of 6): b: band questions keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train! ========================================================== ======= SECTION C: MUSIC QUESTIONS TOPICS: discography and sales, next album, ordering, rift liner notes, white album, gamehendge, junta live material, helping friendly book, hfb updates, language, radio shows, syd barrett, other cool bands ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-1: DISCOGRAPHY: where is there one? what's on it? Check the HFB, available from the archive site.(see questions A5, A6; also, see C8, C9, ) but heres a short version (in order; no dates yet..sorry): TMWSIY: unreleased; produced on Mike’s 4-track in a dorm (see C4, C6, D16) The White Album: unofficial but circulated (see C5 Junta: 1st official release (tape only) independantly produced *Lawn Boy: 2nd official release (tape & disc); independantly produced and released by Absolute A-Go-Go rereleased on disc by Elektra(*) *Picture of Nectar: 1st Elektra release (disc & digalog) *Junta: 2disc re-release w bonus tracks; Elektra (ditto) *Rift: Elektra; conceptual project (ditto) *Hoist: newest (3/29/94) Elektra release (see C2) (Asterisked titles are available for purchase.) Sale numbers, as of 8/8/93: Junta = 64,529 copies Lawn Boy = 59,692 copies A Picture of Nectar = 123,398 copies Rift = 102,375 copies No information is yet available on sales numbers for Hoist. However, Rift debuted at #51 on Billboard album charts in February 1993, while Hoist debuted at #34 on Billboard album charts in April 1994. --Random note: Listen for the Andate section of "Rhapsody in Blue" during "Bathtub Gin" (on LawnBoy). --Another random note: Shelley said (9/21/93, 10:16:05) that, when Elektra remastered Lawn Boy, there was an error in the process such that "the track Lawn Boy is significantly slower than it should be on their release." --Trivia question: who's that laughing at the end of "My Friend" (on Rift)? how many people are part of that final chorus? --Math question: how many more people performed on Hoist than on Junta? ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-2: NEXT ALBUM: when? whats on it? Rumors include live material, which is always in Demand (pun; buy Hoist if you missed it), and Gamehendge. Don’t believe all rumors, but, hey! Wouldn’t a live release be f***in’ grand?? Meanwhile, Hoist features a batallion of guests: Jon Frakes (who played Riker on Star Trek: The New Generation) on trombone, Bela Fleck on banjo, the fiddler formerly of 10,000 Maniacs and Camper Van Beethoven, the Tower of Power Horns, a 14-person string section, a gospel choir, and two amazing female vocalists. Plus, special sound effects like coal walking, toilet flushing, bottle rattling, Doppler-effect playing, and so much more! Plus, act now and... ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-3: ORDERING: how can I order studio-produced material? Of those still in print (asterisked in C1), some can be ordered directly from the band and its management. (See address in B4) (more complete info will follow in a later update.) Two of the selections are available from Columbia House and were listed in the January 1993 _Music Source_ as follows (in part): --Lawn Boy: 1990 reissue from free-jamming retro-rockers. The Oh Kee Pa Ceremony, My Sweet One, Bathtub Gin; Reba; title cut; more. 439075 --A Picture of Nectar: Take rock and jazz. Add calypso, reggae, and barbershop. Stir. Chalk Dust Torture; Guelah Papyrus; The Mango Song; etc. 436824 A complete list of order numbers for Phish from the 2 CD clubs, provided by Neil Berkman (berkman@freya.cs.umass.edu): Columbia House BMG Junta 452219 N/A Lawnboy 439075 N/A PON 436824 N/A Rift 454322 101238 Hoist N/A N/A Columbia House Customer Service: (812) 466-8125 BMG Music Service Customer Service: N/A ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-5: RIFT LINER NOTES: tell me something fun.... From Joshua Kean : > What are they talking about in the liner notes for Mound? All > of the other songs contain at least a few of the lyrics. Response from Shelly: Mike wrote Mound. First, he wrote the music. Then, he listened to the music he had written and mumbled along with it into a tape recorder. Then he listend to the tape of the mumbling and wrote out the words that he heard himself saying. The phrases that are in the Rift liner notes are things he heard himself saying on the tape that didn’t make it into the final version ofthe song that they recorded. ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-5: WHITE ALBUM: what is it? The white album (aka Phish, aka demo) is a collection of Phish material which was done either in studio or on four track in a dorm room, reportedly as a demo/sample tape. It was never officially released, and copies around are entertaining, though not amazing. What the "White Album" includes depends on where you got it. For whatever reason, some copies exclude certain songs, some are shorter, etc. On most versions, none of the songs are played in their entirety; often, just intros. ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-6: GAMEHENDGE: what/where is it? how do i get there? Trey's senior thesis project from Goddard College, entitled "The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday" (TMWISY) the story of Colonel Forbin & his adventures in the land of Gamehenge, home of the Lizards. Narration occurs between almost every pair of songs, with back ground music which is now called TMWSIY, usually played into & out of Avenu Malkenu (see D16) Narration sometimes occurs live (if you're lucky!), usually between Col Forbin's Ascent & Famous Mockingbird; the variations are amazing & should not be summed or listed here... go, seek, listen, & live... The original project includes: Wilson prelude, Lizards, Tela, Wilson, AC/DC Bag, Colonel Forbin's Ascent, Famous Mockingbird, Sloth, & Possum. A few other were written afterwards: Divided Sky, Llama, & McGrupp all have Gamhenge references in them. There are reportedly no good copies of the original project in existence, though copies can be found and are somewhat entertaining to hear through once. Significant portions of the saga have been played live at Nectar's Bar in Vt on 3/12/88 (NOT 3/12/89); North Shore Surf Club in Olympia, Washington on 10/13/91; Sacramento 3/22/93; Charleston, WV, 6-26-94; and Great Woods 7-94. The lyrics to all the songs & narration in the original project, as well as the other songs mentioned here, can be found in the Phish Lyrics file, available at Phish Archives. The revolution is reportedly destined to fail by its own successes, so enjoy it all while you can! :-) To note, in the Court in King of Prussia, PA, there is a leather shop called Wilson's which, Shelly said, has "great business cards." ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-7: JUNTA LIVE MATERIAL: those dates don’t look right! Greg Carrier wrote: >Just got a show yesterday that is labelled 7/25/88. Here's the suprise: It has the exact Icculus and Sanity from Junta! Crazy! Freaked me out. So which date is right? 7/25 or 5/3/88? Shelly responds: 7/25/88 is the correct date, even though Junta says 5/3/88. Here's what happened: During the west coast tour in the spring of 1992, some of the band members & crew & I went wine-tasting in the Napa Valley on a day off. (I guess that was 4/20/92 - between Santa Cruz and Eureka.) At the end of the day, as an afterthought, I lent the band my copy of 7/25/88 to listen to on the drive north, just for giggles. They liked it. At this same time, they were looking for material to fill the second CD of the Junta set, since the original Junta material was too long to fit on one CD. So, they decided to use part of 7/25/88 since it was from the same time period as the creation of Junta. However, back in the summer of '88 the band was not archiving their shows; only one person made a tape that night, and they only taped 45 minutes of the show. The copy I had was third generation - I tracked it through the people I'd gotten it from till I found the guy with the master, who kindly agreed to let the band use it for the CD. The reason that he only taped 45 minutes of the show that night was that that was all the blank tape he had - one side from another show he'd taped recently: 5/3/88. When the tape went to Elektra to master the Junta CD, apparently they read the date off the wrong side of that tape when preparing the liner notes. --Shelly ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-8: HELPING FRIENDLY BOOK: what is it? should i buy it? The title "Helping Friendly Book" is from the Gamehendge tale (see C6) and is a book filled with everything the Lizards needed to know to live their lives in peace & harmony. A few folks on the net put together a compilation of setlists & other info about the band & borrowed the title of this all encompasing book, calling the compilation the"Helping Phriendly Book". According the strict phishlosophy, all of the know & unknow knowledge in the relevant universe would include the Lyrics, FAQ, Chords, etc. Thus HPB, not HFB. Plus, it's fun & youthful, which is the whole point, right? Its most up-to-date version is available on request from Phish-Archives, or by FTP. As is quite obvious, the book is far from complete, but it's getting there!! If you have setlists that are NOT in the HPB, please email them (see A5, A6). Updates have generally been few & far between. For the time being, an efforts is being made to have all known dates, to have some setlist for each date, and to have the entire file standardized. (see C8) As of May 10, 1993, the band was planning on putting out their own version of the HPB (or will it be HFB?). No word since that date. But, should I buy it? No, never. No reason to. This is a unique, creative, laborious compilation put together through many hours and contributions by hundreds of net pholk. There have been scattered reports of unnamed individuals selling this compilation, reportedly for profit, on tours during the spring and summer of 1993. If you buy it from them, you are allowing them to profit off of others' work. You can get a copy for free via email or ftp, and there are a handful of under-appreciated individuals who have printed and duplicated copies to distribute (for free or printing costs ONLY) at shows. Besides, the archive version (which is what was being sold) isn't complete. Additions are made frequently, and there are many shows not on the list at all. There are descrepancies and corrections to be made. Anyone who claims to have a definite compilation of every phish set list is likely lying, given that not even the band's support crew (inc. esp. Shelly Culbertson) has been able to assemble a definite list of shows, much less setlists. Selling and buying the HFB is wrong, cheap, and dishonest, if not rude. Please, find it for free!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-9: HPB: when's it getting updated? how can i help? From: dhan Date: Mon Mar 14 18:58:41 EST 1994 Greetings! This is the ophishal announcement regarding the Helping Friendly Book Working Group and overview of what's up with the HPB. Phirst, we owe a great deal of thanks to Ellis and company who put together the last version and to the countless volunteers from HPB efforts in the past. Without them we would have no starting point for our more ambitious endeavors. I took over responsibility for the Helping Phriendly Book, it's updates, and new versions around the beginning of the year. This is not something I'm doing by myself. Already a small group of you have begun helping out or have volunteered to work on the project. And "project" is the word to use to describe what's planned: - always, an ASCII (plain text) version with all the set lists, lyrics, etc. - a pretty formatted version of the above in Microsoft Word, MacWrite, and other popular formats - a WWW (World Wide Web) version, accessible off the archive site or downloadable to your own machine. You'll need a WWW client such as NCSA Mosaic or Cello. [For those of you unaware, WWW is a hypertext information system, way cool, check it out.] Now how much would you pay? But wait, there's more... - the HyperPhriendly Book, a Macintosh HyperCard stack (like Stack of Dead) with all the set lists, lyrics, venue directions, artwork, interviews, a tape list generator, and complete navigation through the world of Phish. It will even print your J-cards for your tapes, generate statistics and keep track of the shows you've seen. Better than Deadbase, it's hypertext and more. To coin a Steve Jobs phrase, "Insanely Great". And all this is brought to you for the unbelievably low price of... FREE! (As always.) If you ever see anyone /selling/ the HPB, let them know they're ripping you and others off. The archive site fund raising project may offer copies for a "donation" to the archive site, but that will be about it. Copies will be kept at the archive site for ftp and will continue to be available by sending a request to phish-archives. As always, the HPB is looking for submissions. Address your mail to: hpb@archive.phish.net We're looking for missing and corrected set lists, photo's, artwork, etc. (Before sending artwork, photos or anything large, please send a message first and make arrangements.) All corrections and set lists will be verified. If you're interested in helping out, particularly if you're a Macintosh User or html cyberspace architect, please contact me at: shoop@horton.farsef.com. We need all sorts of people to keep things rolling. In the near future we will be releasing a pretty formatted version of the book and a Lyrics HyperCard Stack. PLEASE NOTE: This is future we're talking; there's nothing new yet, but REAL SOON NOW you'll start to see stuff. Messages, like this one, will be posted periodically to keep you informed so you'll know what's up. -dhan ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-10: LANGUAGE: what is it? how born? what are the signals? The "language" grew out of a system of signals among band members to covertly say such helpful things as "stop playing this song" or "look at that person" or "this is what we'll play next" or... trey says there were about 20 of them. If you listen to old tapes, you may be able to pick up on some common riffs, themes, and teases. It isnt certain which, if any, were/are actually intra-band signals, but some possibilities include the Popeye theme, the Peanuts them, and various spirals. From: Rich Fromm 06-May-1993 the reason that only a small subset of the signals were announced is that most of them are cues for the band, not for the audience; just listen to tapes carefully and you'll be able to pick some out; a few that i can think of offhand...there's one where they all go into an oom-pah-pah waltz beat for a few measures...there's one where the music just kind of collapses in a downward spiral and sort of falls apart...i think there's one where the music goes to half-time (or is it double time?)...and there's one where they all laugh...these are kind of hard to explain over the net....[ed: elipses in original] Now, a shorter list is used to communicate to the audience & bring surprise to the faces of newcomers. Trey clarified on 3-12-92 (?) that Page or Mike could be speaking the language too. None will be understood until you see them, but to remind those who are familiar, there are: All Fall Down (four descending notes; everyone falls to floor until Fishman's ta-tat), Simpsons ("DOH!", in reponse to the simpsons's intro riff), Turn Around ("to every thing turn turn turn" played softly; all face rear of venue & cheer as if the band was there!), & Random Note (sing "ahhhhh" at any pitch, level, etc; signal obscure.. listen to a tape for it). From: sgelb@dmctps.das.net: See 5/14/92 Capitol theatre set I. ...They do a full explanation of the language and blow everybody's mind out!!! ...Check it out..In Phun, Steve...8) Also, at 12-31-92 (broadcast & rebroadcast on Boston's WBCN 104.1 FM) a flyer was distributed upon entrance with the following intro & additional signals (with some typo corrections) "...we've been blessed with the opportunity to play with people's minds. We've come up with a bunch of new `language' signals designed to confuse & confound the average radio listener. These signals will be written on signs & held up by Trey at various times throughout the night. This list explains each signal: #1) MASS HYSTERIA If Trey holds up a sign that says "Mass Hysteria" it means you should scream hysterically. Imagine turning on your radio & hearing six thousand people screaming in terror... sort of a War of the Worlds thing. #2) FOOT STOMP Instead of cheering or clapping, you would stomp your feet. (Again... imagein this times six thousand) #3) YAY/BOO When trey holds up this sign & then points up you would "yay" & when he points down you would "boo". Alternating quickly between these two would be pretty surreal. #4) EGGPLANT This would mean that Trey would raise his arm & when he drops it, you would scream "Eggplant!" #5) ONE CLAP When Trey holds up this sign, do nothing until he first raises his arm, then drops it, at which point you would clap _once_ loudly. That way we can do something like introduce Paul & the whole crowd will clap once in unison. (Very strange to the listener.) #6) LIP-FLOP You would flop your lips with your finger while humming (x 6000 people.) #7) SNAP Everyone would snap their fingers to no particular rhythm... sort of a white noist snapping thing. #8) WHISTLE This means whistle a random note. That's it.. we dont know if or when we'll use these, but its good to be armed with some ammunition. Also, thanks for a great year & we're glad you can be here to start off a new one. Trey, Mike, Page, & Tubbs P.S. There are several trash cans in the lobby labeled "RECYCLE" on them; please seek them out & place these papers in there when the show is over." Well.. they tried, but Lemuria's paper survived! Of course, I won't tell which signals they did; you'll have to seek out the tapes & listen for them! :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-11: RADIO SHOWS: are there any? where? Rich Thompson does a show at James Madison University on WXJM 88.7 FM and highlights up to half an hour for Phish. Rick particularly enjoys fun combinations (my friend >cavern, catapult > stash, mango > golgi. For spring 1994, this show was Thursday nights 2-3am. BJ D’Avella does “the Phish Phifteen”, a segment of a show Tuesday nights 1:30-2:30 am on Philladelphia’s 103.3 WPRB. BJ hoped (4/6/94) to expand to the Phish Halph. Jason Knell : “I am the newly appointed music director at my station here in smithfield, ri (88.7 WJMF)...spotlighting phish on sunday may 1 (1994).” Brian Lipman : “the blues screen show is a radio show me and a pal do here on 89.3 WNUR, Northwestern University, Chicago” Ellis of Lemuria is hoping to have a Phish specialty show, one hour on a weekday night each week, on WIRE at the University of Virginia; no details have been resolved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-12: SYD BARRET: who is he? where is he in my phish collection? [All=] From rosemary@clam.rutgers.edu Tue May 31 16:53:17 1994 about Syd Barret's songs ... the difference between Love You and Terrapin and there is no Honey Love Syd Barrett is an ex-member of Pink Floyd. He can be called "eccentric" at best. :-) Two of his songs were covered rarely. _Baby Lemonade_ was played only once, on 3/11/92. _No Good Trying_ was played only twice, on 12/7/90 and 12/28/90. Three more were in more "regular" (if you can call it that) rotation. An old Pink Floyd song, _Bike_ was debuted by Fishman on 11/19/87. It starts "I've got a bike you can ride it if you like." From Syd's solo album, "The Madcap Laughs" came _Terrapin_ (first played 7/23/88) "I really love you and I mean you, stars above you crystal blue, oh baby my hair's on end about you." Also from "Madcap Laughs" is _Love You_ (first played 10/31/90) "Honey love you honey little honey funny Sunday morning love you more funny love in the skyline baby, Ice cream 'scuse me I seen you lookin good the other evening" This is the song that is often incorrectly labeled "Honey Love" or "Honey Love Ya" but the correct title is "Love You". If you haven't heard "The Madcap Laughs", check it out! There's a great Henrietta reference in the song "If It's in You." ----------------------------------------------------------------- C-13: OTHER BANDS: phish.net suggestions? live tapes? In alphabetical order. An asterisk indicates that a tree has taken place on one net or another (so that plenty o’ live tapes are around somewhere). Info in parentheses indicates general home-base, plus any available info on touring extent, contact, etc. More info is always appreciated; Lemuria would like to link this answer to other files/sites on each band. *Aquarium Rescue Unit (Nashville, TN), *The Authority (NY?; East Coast), Beanland (Miss.), *Blues Traveler (NY; nationally), Cactus Pie (formerly Charlottesville, now Atlanta), Cosmic Freeway (Calif), *Dave Mathews Band (Charlottesville, VA; spreading), Flyin Mice (NC and SE), Gibb Droll, *God Street Wine, *Hypnotic Clambake, Indecision (VA), *Jambay! (CA), Ominous Seapods, Rusted Root (Pittsburgh), *Shockra (NY/NE; national?), TR3 (Charlottesville VA trio, featuring Tim Reynolds); Ween (suggested by Phish in interviews), *Widespread Panic (South; page played keys on their 1st album, "Space Wrangler."), *yeP! (Boston?), *Zero (Calif) Also, Phishman has co-produced an interesting tape called "Lost Paradox" featuring J Willis Pratt, "Fish's good friend Willis with whom he remains in close contact."(-Shelly, 8/19/93 10:35:22) "Zerg-man" is featured on drums and screams (plus Timberhole Rogers, Russel Flanagan, Dan Archer, and Aaron Hersy.) No reviews have surfaced on the net, but this editor (Lemuria) highly recommends some of the drumming and poetry on side b; call it eclectic funk-rap remniscent of Sid Barrett? Whatever... The tape has been available at the merchandise table/area of shows since February 1993. Some netters have requested that the comment “It sucks” be added here; relevantly, it hasn’t been around for sale during 1994. Lemuria still enjoys some of it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- end of part 4 (of 6): section C: music questions keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train! ========================================================== ======= SECTION D: Specific Lyrics TOPICS: 19 songs, in alphabetical order (all Hebrew in D-16) ----------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: This is not an attempt to answer every question you have about lyrics. It is an attempt to gather collective wisdom about uncertainties and present definitive answers to questions which routinely take up bandwidth on the net. Please trust that these have been well hashed-out on the net; if you have something new to add that isn’t a recent event (show or offline conversation with knowledgeable source), many netters would prefer that you email it to the FAQ administrator (jeg5s@virginia.edu) rather than to the entire group. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-1: ALL THINGS RECONSIDERED: is that an NPR song? All Things Reconsidered does sound like a reworking of All Things Considered (an NPR show) but it is not *certain* whether it was written that way or whether it was a remarkable coincidence. :) It was played (NOT for the first time) on Mountain Stage, another NPR show. From Alek Grabinski: All Things Reconsidered debuted at the Colonial Theatre, Keene, NH on 9.25.91, and was introduced (or maybe postroduced) by Trey as being a variation on the ATC theme. Mountain Stage happened in 1992. The genealogy is clear. To the best of my knowledge, and I listen a LOT, ATR has never been played during the interludes between stories on All Things Considered. But, according to Mike , the show ATC used the song ATRC during a show in March 1993. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-2: ANTELOPE: first words Trey mumbles just before song takes off? from jesmond@aol.com (9/25/93, 12:14:33): "Rye, Rye, Rocco, Marco Esquandolas. Been you to have any spike, man?" Tom Marshall (high school friend of Trey’s; wrote or co-wrote much of Phish’s lyrics; see HPB and Lyrics file, see A-5 and A-6) wrote these lines, and performed them at 12-31-93. Marco Esquandolas reportedly used to refer to Marc Dowbert, the percussionist with the band (ie with Trey?) before Jon, and may now (or may at some time) have referred to Jon as well. For the last part, you may also hear "If you need any spice/spike, I have a little." Trey reportedly used to say "spleef" and may alternate between spice or spike. One observer suggested that this variation is some language trigger to the other members about how the song is going to go. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-3: ASSE FESTIVAL: what is it? From David "ZZYZX" Steinberg (dsteinb@emmy.nmsu.edu): The Asse Fest is to Guelah as Landlady is to PYITE. In other words, it is the instrumental bit in the middle of the song. Unlike Landlady, though, Asse Festival, was debuted before Guelah. Oddly enough, A.F and Landlady both were Fall '90 songs. Drove everyone crazy for a while because no one could remember which one was which. Having Magilla also coming out this tour didn't help much. The way I remembered it was that Landlady, which Trey called by name the first time I saw it, was PYITE jam. So get a Fall 90 tape (or Port Chester 4/27/91, the first,and I believe only, naked Asse Festival after Guleah was introduced) to catch on... ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-4: CURTAIN: Whats that line? The words are clear; the puncuation is not. "Please, me, have no regrets" (self-directed affirmation) or "Please me; have no regrets" (demand for servitude) or "Please, me have no regrets." (assurance to another) Or, maybe, the words are “Please WE have no regrets.” Okay. So, maybe they aren’t clear. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-5: FAHT / WINDHAM HELL: uh... whats the story? From Tim Miller 1/9/94 Windham Hall is the big New Age label. It sells really annoying, overly tasteful and hence tasteless music with “nature sounds” and the like in the background. From Mark Here's the scoop: In the lower right corner of one of the fall '91 updates appears "Fish's Forum," a small little story with some interesting phonetics. Anyway,the word "faht" appears as a misprint of the word "fast." One Jonathan Fishman was very pissed off at this blunder as it completely changed the story's meaning (or lack thereof) So, as you know, the tracks original name was "Windham Hell," in honor of George Winston and the likes. Prior to the realease of Picture of Nectar, the band called Windham Hill Records to get permission from the president to use the title. The prez's basic response was, "you guys are great! I love your music! If you use the name, I'll sue your asses off." So much for that. So, the band, without telling Fishman, who was off vacationing in some random tropical paradise at the time, decided to change the name to Faht. They were hoping that the album would be out before he returned, so when they gave him his copy, they could say, "oh shit! look, they mispelled Windham Hell, Fish!" Ha ha! So there you are. That's the poop (according to Mike, at least, who told me this after the [which??] Philly show) Later! -Steve Cohn ----- From: mbroth@aol.com Many people have the misconception that Windham Hill releases music that our parents dig. In many instances that is true but ... check out Micheal Hedges - opened for CSN over their '92 summer tour. Psychograss also might prove that misconception otherwise. Check it out if your into the mandolin, slide guitar, steel/nylon string guitars, violin, bongo and banjo kind of thing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-6: FLUFFHEAD: to my door, or new york? Page seems to sing "Fluff came to New York" and Trey seems to sing "Fluff came to my door" resulting in the confusing sound "Fluff came to my dork." (?) ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-7: HALL IN SOLACE: or whatever. what's the "correct" title? John Friedman, former keeper of the Helping Phriendly Book, answers: "Well, this has been an open question for sometime now. Trey has been cited to have said that it is "Hall In Solace." I spoke with some bluegrass aphishanadoes about this, & they sort of giggled when I mentioned "Hall In Solace." "Oh, you mean 'Paul & Silas,'" they said. In fact, you can find "Paul & Silas" on "The Earl Scruggs Revue." Shelly asked Trey about "Hall In Solace," & he said that he had been going by a recording only. In summary, Phish had been singing "Hall In Solace," but the “real” tune is "Paul & Silas." Trey has since been made aware of the error, & now sings the tune correctly. Trey has still occassionally introduced it has "Hall in Solace", & apparently does not consider this "error" a hindrance to musical enjoyment; or, quite possibly, he likes to tease. Multiple titles are given on various blugrass albums, including "All Night Long" & "Who Shall Deliver Me." Nevertheless, in interviews, the band does recognize, as do most netters, that the "accepted" title is "Paul and Silas." Conventional-schmentional? You decide; but keep clarity of communication in mind. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-8: HARRY HOOD: what's it about? part of Gamehenge? This is supposedly about a milk company, which does indeed exist in Vermont. Many of the lines in the song are traceable to this company, one of whose billboards reportedly stood across the street from a former home of at least some of the band's members. The lights on the sign ended at some point during the night. (Line early in song as energy builds: "Harry, Harry. Where do you go when the lights go out?") The company slogan is in the song. (last lines of song: "You can feel good about Hood.") Mr. Miner is either the milk delivery person, someone in a Harry Hood advertisement, or a former resident of this same house to whom *much* (we're talking *ALOT*) of junk mail continued to come while the band lived there. (Line repeated three times just before the most beautiful thing the band plays: "Thank you, Mr. Miner.") From : In the 70s, the Hood Dairy Co. had commercials on TV that showed a little claymation guy with overalls and a milkman hat on that lived inside refrigerators. His name was Harry Hood. An alternate explanation of "Where do you go when the lights go out?" is that this line refers to the milk container in the refridgerator. Another explanation of Mr. Miner/Minor has been that all chords following the "Thank you"'s are minor chords. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-9: JUMP MONK: what is it? is it an original? A song by Charles Mingus. No. It is also labelled (eg 3-12-88) as "Gamehenge Jazz." From: jpaxton@andy.bgsu.edu (joshua paxton) For whoever wanted to know: Charles Mingus was a prominent jazz composer and bass player from about the mid-50s until his death in the late 70s. He had a very distinctive sound, and for a time he wasn't widely appreciated because his music was so unique and hard to categorize (sound familiar?). However, he's now regarded as one of the great jazz composers. He was a very dark, disturbed, and angry man, but he was also capable of great warmth and love -- and you can hear all of it in his music. His song "Jump Monk", which Phish has covered, was written as a tribute to jazz pianist/composer Thelonious Monk, another one of the greats (the title came from the fact that Monk was always jumping and dancing around). Trey said he used part of the chord progression to "Jump Monk" in "Stash." I checked the chart in "Charles Mingus: More than a Fake Book" (an excellent collection put together in part by Andrew Homzy, who hangs around r.m.bluenote), and it's very obvious that Trey wasn't kidding. So if the rest of you Phishites are looking for somebody new to dig into, give Ming a listen. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-10. LLAMA: What is the chorus to Llama? There seems to be some consensus that the words are "Leave it on press, depress, depress. Llama taboot taboot." but it could be "leapin' on" or even "living off grass with a craze to graze", and it has also been suggested (perhaps not seriously) that its "leaving off fred's best threads". To note, it could be "taboot" or "to boot" or "t'boot". ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-11: JUNTA: how do you pronounce it? >From Shelly Culbertson : I asked Page about this when I interviewed him in Arcata; he told me that it is pronounced "junta", not "hunta", because it is a friend's nickname & doesn't have anything to do with South American governments. Ed’s note: Presumably, that’s JUN as in JUNe, TA as is pasTA., i.e. JOON-tah not JUHN-ta or HOON-ta. To confuse things, a New England newspaper (which one?) said “Punta” when reporting on the ‘93 NYE show. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-12: MIKE'S GROOVE: what is it? it’s always that way? Old answer: Mike's groove is a shortened title for a combination of three songs: Mike's Song -> I Am Hydrogen -> Weekapaug Groove. According to Phish's manager, these songs will never be played independently. Most tapers still label the three seperately. [and for good reason; read on...] New answer: There are many examples since that assurance when either something was missing, something else was added, or something was played independantly. Check out the 12-31-92 with Auld Ang Syne (?) instead of IAH, or the 30 min Mike's Song on 2-20-93, or the Mike's Man Who Stepped Into Alvenu Groove stretch. Mike wrote Mike's Song. Weekapaug Groove is named, in some manner (depending on which rumor you hold to) for Weekapaugh, Rhode Island, a coastal resort town. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-13: NICU: and i see you? huh? The song was first played in Portsmouth, NH, on 3/6 or 3/7/93, and was then dubbed "In an Intensive Care Unit". (The full name is often Nueral Intensive Care Unit, the NICU.) However, by that summer it had gotten more of a reggae beat and was being called NICU. There was also some discussion that it be called “And I see you.” Most interestingly, a recent post [poster and address lost; please help find!] noted that Ni is the symbol for Nickel and Cu is the symbol for copper and that these two symbols are side-by-side and in that order on the periodic chart (elements 28 and 29.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-14: OKIPA? oh kee pa? oki pa? huh? okay, what? From: Date: Sun Feb 06 16:03:47 EST 1994 i was reading thru this book, "Strange Stories, Amazing Facts" and in it is this thing about the O-KEE-PA (no "H") torture test: "Before a young man of the Mandan tribe o' Indians could become a fully fleged warrior, he had to undergo one of the world's most painful initiation rituals... to become one of their warriors a young brave had to survive the ordeal of O-KEE-PA, a tourture test designed to test his endurance and his courage. First, the guy had to go without food or drink or sleep for 4 days and nights. Then with some ornate cloths and a fancy painted body, he enters this ceremonial hut. The chief medicine man carved slices phrom the chest and shoulders of the warrior to be with a jagged knife and thrust wooden skewers thru the bleeding flesh behind the the muscles. Stout thongs secured to therafters o' the hut were then tied to both ends of the skewers and the poor guys get HOISTED [Lemuria notes new album title] off the floor!!! to increase the agony, they tied heavy boulders to the legs. and he was twirled around until he fell unconcious.. When and if the brave recovered from the fun, he was given a hatchet to chop off the finger, little finger o' his left hand in the final stage of this his stamina was tested by tying ropes to his wrists and making him run in a circle, like a horse being broken in, until he dropped unconcious from exhaustion. If he survived all this, he was able to return to his family in triumph as a warrior, a fully fleged warroior that is...." ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-15: RIKER’S MAILBOX: what’s going on with that noise? From: SPE9237@acfcluster.nyu.edu Date: Tue Apr 05 21:13:17 EDT 1994 I heard this from Mike .... [It] is a tiny fragment of a fully-recorded "Hoist" outtake, called either "Buffalo Bill" or "Buffalo Bob". You'll notice that everyone's shouting "Olaffub" during the song. "Buffalo Bill"--That IS the name, Trey just quoted it in a newsletter or somewhere--had all kinds of weird production shit on it. Some parts were played backwards, and some lyrics were recorded pronounced backwards to be played back-to front. It was left off the album because it was felt that it skewed the album towards being too goofy. I think it's a pretty long track, maybe 7 minutes--that number sticks in my mind. I also don't think they ever mixed the whole thing. I got the sense that there may be moments of the attempt at recording it in the upcoming documentary. I also know why the prayer song at the end fades out and back in. The original plan was to have it fade out, have the CD play on for another several minutes in silence, and then have that last little moment fade in as a little joke. Then they changed their minds and decided to have it fade right back. At least that's what I assume they did. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-16: TMWSIY middle, DEMAND end, and other HEBREW Foreign languages frequently show up in Phish lyrics. The YEM lyrics have been said to be Italian. Reba might be Russian. But Hebrew is most prominent: Avenu Malkenu as the fixed middle of TMWSIY (see C6), and Jerusalem City of Gold as the end of Demand (on Hoist; see C1, C2) and performed in various other places live. From: Lee Silverman The song [Avenu Malkenu] is a hebrew prayer. The correct pronunciation of the song's name is a-VEE-nu mal-Kay-nu. It's very hard to reflect this pronunctaion in an English spelling of the title, but the best spelling we can come up with is Avinu Malkenu. Anyway, yes. Phish plays some songs in Hebrew. Avenu Malkenu means "Our father, our king" and is sung esp. on Yom Kippur; it asks for God's forgiveness. The mysterious line is "Sh'ma Yisrael Adonoi Elohaynu Adonoi Echod" (last word gutteral "ch"). From: Mendelson Ali M Date: Sat, 7 May 94 20:32:03 Avenu Malkenu is the name of a Jewish prayer. It means “our father, our king”. The first word is Avenu (or Avinu, but definitely *not* aLvenu) and it means our father -- the first part of the word comes from the Hebrew root “av” or “ab” which means father, and the suffix “enu” means “our...” which gives us “our father.” The second word malkeynu (or malkenu) comes from the Hebrew root “malech” which means “king” and the “enu” suffix makes it “our” king. If you want any more info, like what the prayer’s actually about or when it’s said [yes; we’d love that!], I’d be glad to let you know. From: Yaron Marcus, an Isreali netter fluent in Hebrew <@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu:AMITY3@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu> Date: Tue May 31 08:42:52 1994 The song translated is Aveenu malkaynu and it is done so quite acurately. ...any words transcribed from hebrew to English do not have a correct spelling. It's whatever sounds correct! Next there was a question about the translation of "Sh'ma yisrael adonoi elohainu adonai echad". [Sung during 1993] The "sh'ma" as it is called is a Jewish religous prayer loosely translated as "Listen o Israel the lord is our God the Lord is one" . This prayer is said at every prayertime and is considered quite sacred. any other hebrew questions feel free to ask! From: Saul Wetheimer Date: Wed May 11 22:22:55 EDT 1994 This is in response to whoever wanted to know about the Hebrew lyrics on Hoist. ... They are from a song written by Naomi Schemer, called “yerushalayim shai zahav” (Jerusalem city of gold). She was commissioned by the Isreali government to write this song for the national song festival in may 1967 (several weeks before the six days war began.) The song expresses the sadness that Jerusalem was a divided city. The line that is quoted is read “haloh le’chol sheerayick ani keenor.” Literally, it means “if not for all your songs, I am your violin.” It is generally understood to mean “I am an instrument/vehicle for singing your praise.” Another language note: Some claim that Reba means fish in Russian. But, from Alex Grabinski: Loosely speaking, true. But the Russian pronunciation of the word has the short "i" (as in "Phish"), not the long one ("Fee"). IMHO, the choice of "Reba" as a title and name for main character seems to have more grounding in "down-home backwoods" moonshining - which the song seems to imply. But, note such cliches as “drink [alcohol] like a fish”, which ties together Reba (the song and the Russian word and the rural name), fish, Phish, drinking to excess, et al. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-17: YAMAR: This is an old Mustangs song, which they probably took from someone else. However, someone [id and date lost; please help find!] noted that “llamar” is Spanish for to call; the Mustangs’ spelling, then, might corrupt an earlier version, with interesting consequences for the lyrics. ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-18: YOU ENJOY MYSELF: what the hell are they saying? This question is asked so often and on the net that there is a standard abbreviation for the question, which itself has been treated as a word. “What Are You Saying in You Enjoy Myself?” => WAYSIYEM. E.g. “What a waysiyem question!” Condensed info from Richard Stern , Lee Silverman, newsletters, & 18 months of net discussions: It seems that the original line was: "Wash your feet, they drive me to frenzy" (Pronounced Fuh-wren-zhee). But this has been changed in recent years. Page & Trey (March 92, Colorado) wouldn't fess up, but admitted that it was in two different languages. Trey had spent some time as a wandering minstrel in Europe (living in a car, thus stinky feet), & the syllables evolved slowly, hinting at this revalation: "Wash-a-you feets & drive me to Firenze". Trey later told John Greene that it was "Uffitzi" & not "you feets." Uffitzi is a part of Florence (Firenze) near the Ponte Vecchia most known for the Uffitzi Gallery, & named after the wealthy & powerful Uffitzi family. So, we have: "Wash-a-Uffitzi & drive me to Firenze" Though there has been some inconsistency, this was later corrected to "Wash Uffitzi drive me to Firenze" which has the (usually) correct number of syllables & sounds correct if you really enunciate. Sometimes it sounds more like the original "wash your feet....." To add still more confusion, Trey told Lee that Uffitzi is a square in Firenze. In response to fan mail, Mike has taken a liking in newsletters to offering possible variations. The first ("water you team, in a bee-hive, i'm a sent you") was clearly used for at least the first half of February 1993. In newsletters of that month, Mike clarified this by saying it means "yes, I'll play, but no I won't raise", & also listed these: "washer/dryer/freezer/fencing", "wanton in a key, i live, & me for horse rent", "wont you please-e-curve me from valensi", "wash, you face, and drive me to Valencia", & "washington fences, please, says me". Other suggestions on the net include "once you fix it, drive me to Firenza", referring to an automotive mishap on the rumored trip. Clearly, only the band members know for sure what they're saying, & there may well be variation & uncertainty among them. Added 4/30/93: From: ANDREW AGER <89197@LAWRENCE.EDU> Basically, the Uffizi (correct spelling) is an art museum. It is a U-shaped building with two wings, & a piazza in between the wings. There was no actual Uffizi family, but the Uffizi was the site of the government offices of the Medici family during the sixteenth & seventeenth centuries. The family itself lived in the Palazzo Pitti across the Arno River. There exists an above-ground tunnel that leads from the Uffizi to the Palazzo Pitti, stretching over the east side of the Ponte Vecchio (also correct spelling). How do I know all this? 1) I lived there for four months in late 1991, & 2) I'm a history major who specializes in Renaissance Italy & Florentine history. The Uffizi Gallery was bombed in the Spring of 1993 (date someone, please), reportedly by mafia. A Phish newsletter which followed the bombing extended condolences and grief. From: Brian Snyder After the Mann summer show in '92, a friend ... in Murphy's in West Philadelphia... band was in there havin' a few beers and playing pinball. Apparently Fishman's grandparents live near Penn or something. Anyway, Frank asked Trey what was up with You Enjoy Myself. Trey and Mike told him they had been hanging out with a couple Italians who couldn't speak English very well. When the foreigners left, they said "You enjoy myself, yes?" I think it was supposed to mean "wishing you the best." Anyhow, they all started laughing and somehow came up with the song. The Italians were from Florence, which in Italian is called "Firenze." Aside from the cathedral, the most famous thing in Florence is a museum called "Uffizi." Anyhow, Frank told me that Trey told him that what they sing is "Wash Uffizi, drive me to Firenze." ....later in the Phish newsletter, Mike stuck in an article from some paper about how the Uffizi museum had been damaged by a bomb but was now restored. At the end he wrote "Drive me to Firenze." So, after all that, Lemuria’s suggestion is “What’s your fee to drive me to Firenze?” It fits the noises being made, and makes sense in terms of the various explanations by the band. It’s also as bold and simple and unmetaphorical as much other Phish lyrics, yet curious enough that it can be said quickly or slurred and be entirely misunderstood. (Lemuria tried; no one knew what he was saying.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- D-19: 2001/ ZARATHUSTRA: what is it? where’d it come from? From: SmudgeTool@aol.com Date: Sun Jul 10 23:21:12 EDT 1994 Also sprach Zarathustra was written by Richard Strauss, and is indeed a symphonic poem based on Nietzsche's work of the same name. The disco hit arranged by Deodato reached #2 on the charts in 1973 and won a Grammy as Best Pop Instrumental Performance. Rhino records has recently released a compilation disc called "Rock Instrumental Classics, volume 3: The Seventies" that includes this tune, as well as other indispensable tracks like "The Hustle", "Whole Lotta Love", "A Fifth Of Beethoven"(made famous in Saturday Night Fever), "Popcorn" by Hot Butter, AND "Frankenstein" by The Edgar Winter Group"!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- end part 5 (of 6): d: lyrics questions keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train! ========================================================== ======= SECTION E: TAPE QUESTIONS TOPICS: live recordings, taping etiquette, available quality tapes, beginning with tapes, tapelists, tape trades, tape trees, mailing tapes, taping over the net, bootlegged CDs suck, consequences of bootleg businesses, what to do if you bought bootlegged discs, how to start a legitimate collection, dubbing, dual decks, cleaning decks, azimuth (and other) adjustments, dolby/dbx, patching in, dcc/dat ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-1: LIVE RECORDING: can i? what equipment do i need? In most cases, yes; the contract with Elektra reportedly stipulates that they wouldn't play where they couldn't be aud taped. Then again, they have since then, but... exceptions are the rule. :-) DATs are reportedly not allowed at HORDE shows. To learn about equipment, check out these mail reflectors; dat-heads has a price/quality list; tape-heads has a FAQ file. Tape-heads@... [address has changed; can’t locate] send "please add me" message to tape-heads-request... dat-heads@... [address has changed; can’t located] send "please add me" message to dat-heads-request... See B6, B7, E1, E2 Re taping at Phish shows. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-2: TAPING ETIQUETTE: a release from the band & staff From Shelly Culbertson (shell@phish.net): As most of you know, Phish has always made an effort to allow taping to be a part of the show. We feel that the proliferation of live tapes has helped spread the music to new fans, and tapers have always been very co-operative with our requests to keep the situation in control. Now Phish has started playing in some larger venues where the staff is unaccustomed to permitting taping, and we have had some difficulties regarding reserved seating, blocking sight lines, fire lanes, etc. Because the band is committed to allow taping, we are taking steps to standardize the way it happens, so there won't be so many surprises for all of us. One point is essential: as a group, tapers must take it upon themselves to keep the situation in control. Please remember that most people at the show are there to experience the moment, and we have to think of them first. There will always be some tapers who will try to ignore our guidelines in order to get what they think are better tapes. No-one in our organization is going to bust people for overstepping these guidelines; but if problems mount to a point where people's enjoyment of the show is compromised it will endanger the future opportunities of all tapers at Phish shows. Guidelines for tapers: 1. Please tape in designated areas only. Usually this will be directly behind the soundboard riser. 2. Keep mic stands at a reasonable height, 10 feet or so. 3. Be considerate of those around you. Don't demand that people be quiet around your microphones. 4. Plan on providing your own power. Come prepared. We can't lend you extension cords, blank tapes, adapters, etc. 5. Don't talk to Paul (sound) or Chris (lights) during or immediately before the show. 6. Please pack your equipment in a timely manner. House security people get all worked up trying to hustle everyone out the door.Let's not antagonize them. 7. Don't go overboard with equipment. Large mixers, racks of gear, large reel-to-reels, etc. won't be allowed in the venue. 8. Let other tapers know when they are stepping over the line. Be polite; maybe they don't know what the rules are. Thank you for your co-operation. We hope that these guidelines will benefit everyone involved. Please remember that audience taping is for non- commercial purposes only; any sale of tapes is completely prohibited and will endanger the future of taping at Phish shows. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-3: TAPES: what REALLY high qual tapes are around? where? The following shows were recorded to DAT from a seperate recording board at the shows. They are some of the highest quality Phish tapes in existence: 4/22/90, 10/30/90, 10/31/90, 11/2/90, 11/3/90, 11/4/90, 3/13/91, 3/15/91, 3/16/91, 3/17/91, 3/22/91, 3/23/91, 4/5/92. Except for the 4/5/92 tape, they have all been fairly widely circulated. They were done on a large recording console (not EQ) & mixed completely seperately from the board mix, rumoredly done in a truck outside the venue. The engineer used 2 audience mics to mix in crowd/hall ambience (on most of them). As of Spring 1991, the number & frequency of requests to patch in had very much expanded. The size of venues & crowds also picked up, as did the amount of equipment. So, patches were disallowed. Reportedly related, the contract with Elektra stipulated that they would have access to the best quality (sound *&* playing?) recordings of shows, for possible live release. (YEA! We can only hope. :-) Paul (the sound professor) got a Panasonic SV-3700 (DAT) Fall 1992 and has used it to record soundboards since; an analog deck was used for some uncertain length of time before that, so that a fairly comprehensive (?) "vault" exists, though not for public consumption. An exception or twelve to every rule when you're on the Phish.net. The following 1992 (and later) soundboard tapes have circulated. Asterisks have been trees: 3/19/92, 3/20/92, 3/25/92, 4/16/92*, 4/17/92, 4/18/92, 4/19/92 I, 4/21/92, 4/29/92 II, 5/16/92, 7/25/92* (with Santana), 11/23/92, 12/31/92* (broadcast on Boston WBCN-FM), *2-20-93, *12-30-93, 12/31/93 (broadcast on Boston WBCN-FM) Where can you get them? option a) a tree (see question E7) option b) a trade (see D4, D5, D6) ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-4: BEGINNERS: How can a beginner get tapes? Sometimes, it seems hard to get something from nothing, but you've got a few things going for you. First of all, the generosity of folks on the net. Watch the net for periodic "beginner tape offers" and "reverse tape grovels." Details relevant to each are usually explained with the posting. It might involve trading, but will probable just require you to send money or blanks and postage. There's also the possibility to be a leaf on a tree even if you dont have tapes; in fact, that's a great place to be on a tree! And, hey! If you have many tapes (over 50? 100!? 200!?!) post a message and offer this service to the first five, ten, or fifteen folks that respond. Have them send you blanks and tape some of your best for them! You'll be glad you did! If you want to be "adopted", ie paired up with someone who already has some tapes and is willing to dub for anyone that wants to send blanks, put your name on the adopt-a-phreak list by maiing BJ at bdavella@student.princeton.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-5: TAPELIST: what is it? what's in it? do i need one? A tapelist gives relevant info about boots you have. A tapelist is useful for two reasons: to let you keep up with what you have (which assumes that you have more than a handful of boots) & to make it easier to let others see what you have (which assumes that you might one day be interested in trading for other tapes.) That is, even if you dont think one of these items is useful to have on your list, you ought to at least be able to give the relevant info on any particular tape. There is no consensus on form, order, or meaning (esp generation determination); Ellis tried very hard to find one. BTW, number gens how you want & be prepared to explain your standarization; there is no *right* answer. But, important info for each tape might include any or all of the following: band/performer [mostly phish, of course:)], date, set(s), venue, location of venue, source (FM broadcast, audience, soundboard, monitor feed, suzy-Q, studio, board remix), generation (you define!), whether the original was digital, whether your copy is on metal, whether your copy has been dolby-ized, some form of grading (try A, B, C; + or - for hiss & noise; try to be strict, it'll come to you), & any other comments (eg first Harpua, only show with Sofie Diloff, etc). A note on subjectivity: There is a difference between tape quality and performance quality. You may want two systems, both numbered, both lettered, one letters and the other suffixes (+,-,=,*,etc) or whatever works for you. Just be sure that you know what it is and that you can decipher it for anyone who asks. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-6: TAPE TRADE: what is it? how do I get into one? You dub a tape & pay for postage; someone else does the same. (or, you might just send blanks; see E4, E13). The two of you discuss quality, length, choices, whatever you want beforehand, & mail to each other. This is the way that most shows get spread across the globe, though most _tapes_ made are probably dubs off of net trades. One netter who currently has 210hrs, for instance, got 180 of those hours by net trade. > From: Pat Loughery Sep 23 21:09:37 EDT 1993 answers inserted by Ellis of Lemuria > What's the best way to go about setting up trades with > other net.phish heads? talk to them on email or meet them at shows. you can grovel or respond to discussion of tapes (but see below), but you can also just talk with folks about their favorite songs and versions and shows, on email or irc or the phone or in lots at shows, and eventually you'll run into the knowledge of someone's having something you want. thats much better than just copying everything you can get your hands on. (See also D7 and E4, and E3) > I've arranged a half-dozen or so trades mostly by > responding to posted grovels, but how do the "old-timers" > in this group to about it? many people have known each other for months or even years through the net and just get in contact every now and then to trade lists again. keep track of with whom you trade and check in with them again in 4, 6, or 8 months. Youll be surprised! > Do you just pick out somebody at random and send them > mail soliciting a trade? That seems almost rude, but how > do you > run into more experienced folks with big > tapelists other than through pure chance? Picking up > specific shows seems as easy > as waiting for somebody to > mention that they have it, or posting a specific request, > but what if I just want more live > Phish in general? You can just send a request for that show if you want, but if it's old, very recent, rare, or good quality... actually, with just about any tape given the current size of the net, there are bound to be many others doing the same thing. If every mention of a tape gets mail responses of 30 requests for that tape, the net is going to see a HUGE loss of discussions of tapes people have. That is, if netiquette cant keep up with growth of the net, the net is going to experience some qualitative losses. If you do it, make an offer in your first mailing, rather than a general "can I have it" question. Send your list with a few suggestions at the top; dont just suggest something, cause if the person has it, he may ignore your request. Dont expect an answer immediately, and BY ALL MEANS dont hound for an answer; even that takes time. It may not happen the same day or week; may take two weeks, but after that you should try again or forget it. There has been some debate, but the general consensus seems to be that you are "out-of-line" (whatever that is) to "expect" or "demand" any tape from anyone, unless a trade has been agreed to and completed by one party. If you're looking for folks with big lists, try checking the archive (see A5, A6) for the collection of lists. Also, watch for beginners' tape offers (see E4, E13) In general netiquette trading terms, the following seem standards, or at least safe bases for order: Mail cassette cases unless you've agreed otherwise. Don't use dolby unless you've agreed otherwise (since it cant be undone). Write on the back of the cassette labels slip unless you've mentioned or asked about writing on the J-cards. Knock out tabs after recording. [Note: tips on trading etiquette requested for insertion here] ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-7: TAPE TREE: what is it? how does it work? should i do one? Note: send all tree info to Gregg Carrier: STU_GJCARRIE@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU TWO Answers, both long, but both highly recommended for anyone planning or considering planning a tree. It's a rewarding experience, but it takes some time, effort, and patience. From Lee Silverman A Tape Tree is a way of distributing a popular tape to a large number of people. By using a tape tree, rather than having one person make 75 copies of a tape, everyone gets their tapes faster & there's much less work involved for the owner of the tapes. The basic Premise is this: I have a tape that everyone wants. So I post to the net, saying that I'm running a tree. In that post I include a form for people to fill out & send back to me. (most of the info on these forms gets used, so always fill out the whole thing) After about a week of waiting, I compile all the replies into a "tree," where I arrange to make copies for 5 or so people. Each of those 5 people is given a list of 5 other people whom they are to make tapes for. Each of them makes copies for 5 people, & so on depending on how big the tree is. Usually the people who are higher up in trees are the people with the best taping equipment, so the tapes lose less of their sound quality. If you are on a tree you have one or two responsibilities: The first is to get the tapes (this applies to everyone). You do this by either sending blanks to, or trading with, the person above you. (Whether you send blanks or trade generally has little to do with your placement within the tree). The second responsibility you *may* have will be to copy the tapes for a certain number of other people. They may either trade with you or just send blanks. At that point your role in the tree has been fulfilled. If you want specific info on how to set up a tree, write Lee for some suggestions. NOTE:: Many trees in mid-1993 have been lost into the cyberspace abyss. Generally, this really, really sucks! PLEASE post an entire tree structure when it gets set; DONT expect connections to get setup privately; get em going from all sides ASAP!! Other things (from Lemuria's tweedle brain) to consider: 1) Like it or not, there are some slackers on the net; expect that there may some problems, and that no tree will run perfectly smoothly, then be ready to patch lost branches to parents with a small burden. 2) Try to make your tree run well anyway, to preserve netiquette and tape quality, not to mention trust and credibility of and on the net process. Lee and Ellis are willing to give suggestions, at least, if not administrative help. 3) Running a tree does involve some time, not only to create the tree -- which itself could invovle assimilation and organization of a hundred or more names and addresses, and being sure that those addresses and the tree links get hooked to the right people -- but to make tapes for the branches, settle any problems that arise, deal with orphaned leaves, etc. Remember, there is a difference between the person administrating, the person rooting, and the person seeding the tree. 4) The tree administrator is not the only person with responsibilities; as Lee said, everyone on the tree is responsible for his sections, and may at some point be asked to help out with stragglers, orphans, and late comers; there is no pressure, but there will be requests. 5) If you have a great tape(s) but not the experience, time, understanding, or interets to run a tree, you could ROOT your tapes to someone who IS ready to run the tree. Just post a note to the net (mail to phish@phish.net) with the subject "Need Adm for tree". ------- SECOND ANSWER SET: PLEASE NOTE: This explanation uses as an example the treeing of a 1992 show at Compton Terrace by the *Grateful Dead*. It does *not* discuss a Phish show, tape, or tree; you will not be able to find tapes of a Phish show at Compton Terrace in 1992, because it didn’t happen. It may seem silly to point this out, but a number of phish netters have asked for this show; it doesn’t exist. This explanation refers to a show by the *Dead*. From: "BJ D'Avella" "picked up in dead.net archives at gdead.berkeley.edu" From: charles@phx.mcd.mot.com (Charles Wolff) Subject: Running Tape Trees (long) Something I've been meaning to write up for a while, and ... I finally got around to it... Paolo Galtieri and I have run several "tape trees" on the rec.music.gdead newsgroup; each time we run a tree, we've tried to do things a little better than the time before. This article is a summary of our current procedure for running a tree. It won't work for everybody, but it seems to be working for us, and the ideas may be useful to others who volunteer to run tape trees. In honor of the Wharf Rats, I've made this a 12-step procedure :-). 1. ARRANGE FOR "SEED" TAPE Paolo and I don't actually tape shows ourselves, so we have to make contact with someone who does to get a "seed" tape for the tree. Currently, there is a taper on the newsgroup who has made a standing offer to provide a DAT seed to anyone who will run a tree. We've also obtained seeds by posting to the DAT-heads mailing list. C onceivably, we could also use very good (or rare) tapes we already have as the seeds (such as my 1st gen reels of the FM broadcast of 12/31/78). If we're getting seeds from someone else, we ask whether they would like to be publicly acknowledged for providing the seeds, or whether they'd like to keep their identity private (some badly overloaded tapers prefer the latter...) Once we've made arrangements to receive seed tapes, we will often post a pre-announcement to rec.music.gdead saying, "we will be doing a tape tree for (show); stay tuned for details." 2. TAPE FORECAST While we're waiting for the seed tapes to arrive, we work up a "tape forecast." First, we decide how many top level branches we want to have in the tree. For the '92 Compton Terrace tree, we decided we could swing 25 top level branches. Your mileage may vary... Once we've decided how many top level branches, we break this down into a tape forecast, based on previous tape trees we've been involved in. Currently, our tape forecast for 25 branches looks like: tape type no dolby dolby B dolby C XL2S 8 4 1 XL2 5 3 TDK SA 4 If we had a smaller number of branches, we'd probably decide to make all the branch tapes on XL2S's or something like (and, of course, we'd state that in the announcement). The goal of the forecast is to predict what kinds of tapes we will need to produce to supply all of our "branches." This allows us to start making the tapes for the branches BEFORE the tree is finalized, and to have almost all the branch tapes ready to mail shortly after the final tree is posted. By having lots of top-level branches, we can keep the tree to two layers, and everybody gets pretty good copies pretty quickly. Of course, the tradeoff is that we have to MAKE those branch tapes. But then, most "branches" are also willing to trade for the tapes they get, so that's nice... :-) With two of us making branch tapes, we also decide how we'll divide up the tree. For the '92 Compton tree, Paolo made all the copies of the Saturday show; Charles made all the copiesof the Sunday show. We made an arbitrary decision that all thebranches would receive both shows; nobody has complained about this. Anybody who only wanted one show was automatically a leaf. 3. VERIFY SEED TAPES; DETERMINE SPLITS When the seed tapes arrive, we listen to them to make sure they have the complete show, that the quality is good, and what the "splits" will be (what songs will be on what sides of the analog copies). Until we have the seed tapes IN HAND, we go no further with the tree. 4. POST TREE ANNOUNCEMENT Once we have the seed tapes IN HAND (that's a big deal with us), we develop and post the tree announcement. The tree announcement should include the dates of the shows being distributed, the setlists for those shows, the source of the tapes ("audience DATs", "3rd gen Betty Board", whatever). The tree announcement should also state the closing date for the tree; that is, the date after which no more signups will be accepted. Since all our branch tapes will be on particular tape brands (because of the tape forecast), we mention this in the posting as well. The announcement should clearly state whether there will be a DAT branch (DAT copies of the DAT seed). Finally, the tree announcement should include instructions for signing up: who to send email to to sign up, etc. We've made various attempts at creating an easily parseable "form" for signing up, but we have yet to figure out how to get everybody to fill out the form the same way. Our typical signup form might look something like the following: Name: _ Email address: _ USMail address: _ Do you want the Saturday (12/5/92) show?_ Do you want the Sunday (12/6/92) show? _ DAT or analog? _ Analog: Tape type: _ Noise Red.: _ If you are a branch, will you be sending us trades or blanks?_ Are you willing to make analog copies for others?_ How many copies are you willing to make? _ Briefly describe your tape copying setup:_ Users are instructed to answer the questions by searching for the underscore characters and replacing them with replies. The information we ask for is used to determine who will be branches and who will be "leaves". In addition to posting to rec.music.gdead, we also send the announcement to the DAT-heads and tape-heads mailing lists. We also try to re-post the annoucement to rec.music.gdead at least once or twice while the tree is open, for those who may have missed it the first time. 5. TAPE INSERT ARTWORK Once the announcement has been posted, one of us starts working on tape insert artwork. By coming up with a standard set of tape inserts which include the setlists, dates, locations, and other significant information, and then xeroxing enough copies for all the branch tapes, we cut down on the amount of handwriting we have to do. This also seems to improve the accuracy of the lists we send out with the tapes. If the person who "seeded" the tree would like to be acknowledged publicly, you can include a "thanks to..." note on the tape inserts. The tape insert artwork can be as fancy or as simple as you like; xeroxing onto colored paper makes them more attractive, but it's not required. Mainly, it's a way of saving yourself some work. 6. BEGIN MAKING TAPES While people are still signing up for the tape tree, Paolo and I start making the tapes, according to the forecast. On our forecast, we identified the tapes as set A through set Y. As I made each tape, I would mark which tape set it's part of. By the time we got together to package up the tapes, Paolo had his 25 sets of tapes and I had mine and we just merged them together as we dropped them into the envelopes. 7. HANDLE TREE SIGNUPS During the time the tree is open, people email to us asking us to be on the tree. All the incoming email is stored in a special mailbox. If a signup is received that is missing specific information, we can write back and try to get the information. We normally do NOT send any acknowledgement that signups have been received. About a week before the closing date, we post a list of everyone who has signed up so far; anybody who thinks they signed up but is not on that list can send another signup. One thing we're going to try on our next tree is, for anyone who signs up to receive DATs, and who we won't be trading for some other show on DAT, we will ask them to send us blank DATs right away, so we can make their copies for them. With DAT blanks costing $8 and up apiece, we can't afford to "front" a lot of blank DATs for the tree. We'll see how this works... 8. ORGANIZE FINAL TREE The tape tree announcement included a closing date; once that date arrives, the tree is closed and we're done taking signups. We usually wind up accepting things for an extra day or two, until we're ready to actually assemble the final tree. Once the tree closes, we go through all the people who signed up and build the final tree. What we've done the last couple times that has actually worked quite well is to PRINT OUT all the incoming email signups, ONE PER PAGE. We can then shuffle pieces of paper, which can sometimes be easier than shuffling lines in a mailbox. In assembling the final tree, there are several things we look at. All the DAT people get separated out, and we note any DAT people who are willing to make analog copies for other people. Next, any analog people who are not willing or not able to make copies for other people are put to the side; these have to be "leaves" on the tree. Next, we look at the analog people who are willing to make copies, and try to identify who might be our "best" people to use as branches. In general, people with dubbing decks get put aside; people who want their copies on a tape type other than the ones on our forecast get put aside; people who can only make one or two copies get put aside. What we end up with, then, is a stack of people who are willing to make plenty of copies, on one of our forecast tape types, on a reasonably good dubbing setup. We then start fitting these people into the tape forecast. We find eight people who want XL2S no dolby, and make them branches A through H. We find four more who want XL2S dolby B and make them branches I through L. As we work down the list, we may move some people around; somebody who wanted XL2S tapes with either no dolby or dolby B might start out as branch C and then get shifted to branch J, and then we'd find somebody else willing to take XL2S no dolby tapes and make them branch C. This continues until the tape forecast is filled in as far as possible. For '92 Compton, we filled 24 of the 25 forecast tapes. We then start assigning "leaves" to each branch. In general, we try to match noise reduction types, so that people who want dolby B have dolby B parents. Each branch is given however many children they say they're willing to feed, up to about five. We try to set it up so that each branch has at least one or two people who are willing to do a trade for the tapes, rather than just providing blanks. If the tree was very large, we may find that even 25 branches isn't enough to handle all the "leaves." When this happens, we take the remaining people and construct branches, with leaves, and assign them to DAT people who are willing to make analog copies. The tapes go through one more layer that way, so it may take a little longer for the tapes to get out, but the extra layer is a DAT layer, so the copies should be just as good. Once in a while, we pull somebody out and say we'll handle them as a special. On the '92 Compton Terrace tree, there was one person who has some rare '84 shows, and Charles is trying to collect all of '84. So we decided to handle her as a "special", so we could trade with her for one of her shows that Charles wanted. Once the tree is organized, we staple together the printouts for each branch - the branch leader at the top, with the email from the leaves below. These will be used again later. 9. POST FINAL TREE Once the branches are chosen, the final tree is posted to rec.music.gdead, DAT-heads and tape-heads. Usually, this list includes the names and email addresses of each person on the tree, and is formatted to make it clear who is each person's parent. We usually re-post the tree to rec.music.gdead a couple times over the next week, for those who missed it. As soon as the tree has been posted, we try to get the branch tapes (which we've already made based on the forecast) in the mail as soon as possible - usually within a week or less. 10. PREPARE COVER LETTER, ENVELOPES, ETC. A number of the pieces of the branch packages can be prepared during the time the tree is open for signups. You can't address the envelopes until you know who the branches are, but you can go out and buy the padded envelopes; you can put the tape inserts into the tapes as you make them; if you know your packages will be fairly heavy, you could even go to the post office and buy sufficient $2.90 stamps for priority mail. For the branch packages, we write a standard "cover letter" that we send in each package. This letter gives our USMail address and email addresses; it says what to do if there are problems with the tapes; it mentions that we are including the printouts of the original email from this person's children, and it tells how we're handling "Max Points" for this particular tree. (Currently, we take the Max Points off the tapes as we make them for the branches, and we tell the branches that they can keep the Max Points from trade tapes they send to us.) Our standard cover letter also includes some excerpts from the rec.music.gdead FAQ regarding tape trees. We also mention that if the person has not yet sent us their tape list to set up a trade, they should do so as soon as possible. 11. ASSEMBLE BRANCH PACKAGES As soon as possible after assembling and posting the final tree, we get together and assemble the "branch packages." Each branch is identified with a particular entry on the tape forecast, and their tapes should be ready to go. Each branch gets a cover letter, the printouts of email from their children, their tapes, and any other "goodies" we might be sending out. If we have a tapelist from the branch, we go through the list and pick out the trades we'd like at this point in time, and enclose a note in the package saying what we'd like. Any trades we request at this time get put on our joint electronic tape list, marked as "incoming". The packages are assembled and sealed, and one of us gets to make the Post Office run to mail them all. After the tapes are mailed, we work out how much postage costs were for the tree and divide them up. Usually, there will be one or two branch packages which don't get mailed at this time, for one reason or another. One of us takes responsibility for completing and mailing each of these packages. Once the branch packages are in the mail, we usually post to rec.music.gdead to indicate that most/all the top level branches have been sent out. 12. FOLLOW-UP Most of our work is finished at this point; the rest of it is follow-up. If any of the branches found a problem with one of their tapes, we need to work out how to get them a replacement quickly so they can make copies for their children. It seems like every time we've posted a finalized tape tree, there are a few people who write to us at that point and say, "Can I still get on the tree?" We're going to work on a standard, polite response which says, "Sorry, the tree is closed and we can't add anybody else. Lots of people will be receiving copies, and you should be able to set up a trade for this show fairly easily..." After organizing the tree, making 25 branch copies and getting them mailed out, we would just as soon not have to make any special copies for people who missed the tree... Some tree administrators do not send out branch tapes until they have received blanks or trades from the branches; we have decided it's more important to get the tapes to the branches so the tree gets moving. What this does mean is that we now have 25 people who owe us tapes (some of which we haven't even picked out yet). We have to maintain a list of who owes what, what's been received, what's still out, etc. After three or four weeks, we start sending out friendly reminders to people who still owe us lists or tapes. This goes on until we have received all tapes. One of these days, we'll even work out a procedure for "receiving" tapes to ensure that we at least listen to enough of each tape when we get it that we know it's complete, the right stuff, and listenable. We don't want to discover three years from now that one of these tapes is blank on side two... Finally, you may want to follow-up on the tree just to make sure it's propagating. This could be done by email to all the branches - "have you shipped your tapes to your children yet?" or by a posting to rec.music.gdead - "anybody who hasn't received their tapes from this tree yet, please let me know." Be careful with this latter approach - you don't want to annoy any of your branch people; make it clear you just want to make sure there aren't any problems. The degree to which you follow up a tree is up to you; some tree administrators feel like once they've shipped the branch tapes, they're done. Others may want to offer to make copies for anyone whose tree branch collapsed. As tree administrator, it's your job to define your duties, but remember that some responsiblities are quasi-defined by traditionall trade etiquette. Remember: This explanation discusses a Grateful Dead show; there was no Phish who at Compton Terrace in ‘92. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-8: MAILING TAPES: how should i do it? Just some tips, from three years of experience trading from Lemuria, strengthened by input from the experience of others with a decade or more trading experience. These aren't rules, just what most people do; you don’t have to do them, but if you vary from them and don’t inform your trading partner, signals may not be clear, and things may go sour, not only for one of you, but maybe for both of you... maybe for the whole net. AAAAAAAH! :) Use padded envelopes (absolutely!). They're cheap, and easily reusable 10 or 15 times, especially if you address by scotch taping a small piece of paper to the front. Staple the ends sparsely, then wrap the end in a small bit of tape to protect from wet and the keep staples from poking the fingers of kind postmen. You could wrap them in bubbly-sheets or newspaper, but take care! This is important stuff! Most netters mail priority first class: 2 lbs (2 to 4 tapes) in 2 days for $2.90; one tape or two without cases, if alone, might be $1.87, depending on envelope weight. Certified or return receipt are $1 more. Regular post: approx. $.90 for one (with case and small note), $1.21 to $1.76 for two, depending on what else is in envelope. If you’re mailing blanks and postage to be returned to you, go ahead and round to nearest dollar (or a bit above.) Twenty cents isn’t really *generous*, considering someone else is investing their time for you; it’s just kind, repaying the kindness of their offer and time. The extra change will also cover slight changes in weight due to tape inserts, any short note, maybe a tapelist (so you can send more blanks, or trade later), and tape and staples (to reclose, and thereby resuse envelope). Don't mail just tapes; make it fun and exciting and friendly! Send nifty tape labels (though don't write on the factory j-cards unless okayed with the recipient). Pass along your favorite political propoganda; Lemuria sends info on hemp relegalization, with a small message to pass it on in the next trade. Send a photo. If you're mailing someone many blanks, send (at minimum) a note of thanks. Keep max points, unless you're mailing blanks; they're one small favor you can do for someone else's time and effort. Do mail tape cases, unless agreed otherwise; they do, however, add weight in large quantity, and they can break. And REUSE YOUR MAILING ENVELOPES!! Them suckers take up landfill space like... well... something voluminous! ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-9: TAPING OVER THE NET: can it be done? why not? From: "Lee J. Silverman" Question: Why can't we digitize phish concerts and make them available online over the net? The simple answer is that the resulting file would be much to large to deal with. To see this, let's do a little arithmetic: Let's talk about a short phish show - 3/4 of a 90 minute tape for set one and 5/6 of a tape for set two. That's 68 minutes on the first tape and 75 minutes on the second, for a total of 143 minutes. 143 minutes times 60 sec/min is 8580 seconds. If we're going to do this right, we want at least CD quality sound - 44,100 samples per second. DAT samples at 48K, but let's say that we don't care about the miniscule improvements that that would make. 8580 seconds * 44,100 samples/sec = 378378000 samples. We want this to be in stereo, so we have to multiply by 2 channels: 378378000 * 2 channels = 756756000 samples. Each sample is 16 bits, or two bytes: 756756000 samples * 2 bytes/samples = 1513512000 bytes AIFF non- lossy compression will reduce the file size 3x : 1513512000 bytes * 1/3 size AIFF = 504504000 bytes = 493 megs. OK. Now, let's assume that you happen to have 500 Megs of hard drive space laying around to use for this. Someone posted that they had a REALLY fast ethernet connection, and they can download 1.2 megs in 5 seconds. For now, let's assume that that's a reasonable figure. 1.2 megs in 5 secs is 0.24 megs per second, or 4 seconds/meg. 492 megs * 4 secs/meg = 1970 seconds = 32.8 minutes download time. However, if you can get 240K per second downloads over the internet to a computer outside your school or company, mail me and tell me who installed your network! The fastest transfer rate you're likely to get over the internet, late at night on a friday when reasonable people are out having fun, is probably 65,000 bytes per second, so the download will take about two hours. That's if you have a pretty fast ethernet connection, and assuming that nothing goes wrong for that entire hour, and you have 500 megs of free disk space. Let's say that the file comes in four parts, one for each side of each tape. Each part will be about 125 Megs. That means that you need a computer with 125 megs of RAM to load the file into memory so you can play it without the interuptions that hard drive access will give you. I think these limitations narrow the usefulness of this system of tape distribution substantially; there may be two dozen people on the net who have the resources to make use of such a scheme. In the final analysis, most of the numbers in this post are about an order of magntiude larger than you'd expect a computer or network to be able to handle at this point. However, the numbers associated with computers have increased several orders of magnitude in the past 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that those numbers will keep going up in the future. I expect to see online versions of Phish concerts within 5 years. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-10: WHAT’S WRONG with buying bootlegged CDs? The bootleg discs are illegally produced and imported (mostly from Italy). The band and Elektra have been kind enough to allow us to tape shows legitimately, and this should be the means of enjoying this great music. Neither the band nor Elektra receives any profit for the discs, which are a blatent copyright infringement. This alone should be enough to disuade any real Phish fan from this purchase. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-11: What happens if people still continue to purchase them? There is a possibility that it could lead to the downfall of legitimate taping. In the beginning, taping Phish shows was a great way to get their music heard by many ears and to earn them the live recognition that theyre know for. We have enjoy this like fans of only a few other bands, in that a great concert experience can be relived time and time again. The taping network as it is now provides those willing to do a little work, access to any Phish show recently, and many older shows. The .net has allowed many trees to be run and many trades to be set up so this great music can be enjoy by all. Phish is unique in that every time a song is played it is a new experience. Phish is at a point now that they are a business. The band and their following has grown faster than information about legit taping, and the bootleg discs can spread. ... As far as Phish needing tapers, that's a lie. They're huge now and will continue to grow by word of mouth and album sales. People involved in taping and trading are now a small percentage of people involved in seeing the band. Its extremely kind of them to allow it to continue like this, and I think that we should all try and repay that by doing what we can to curb the sale and purchase of bootleg discs. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-12: I goofed & bought a booteleg CD or 2; what can I do now? Buy no more, realize your mistake and redeem yourself. How? Make copies of the CDs for the first five newbies that respond to your post on the net and send you blanks and postage. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-13: I have no tapes, how can I start a legitimate collection? It takes a little work, but it'll be much better than going out and buy an ovepriced bootleg disc. If you're going to a show, bring two blanks in a padded return envelope that has your address and sufficient postage ($1.67 cheap; $2.90 priority mail) on it. Almost [editor's note: absolutely no guarantees here, but I've heard of only one failure of this method in 4 years] any taper will make you a copy of the show if you come that prepared. (It also doesnt hurt to offer a small bribe...a beer or soda etc.) If the first person you approace says no, try someone else. All tapers have to consider previous deals and trades first above just spinning a show for someone. Don't get discouraged if the first person brushes you off. Between shows, watch for tree announcements on the net. You can sign up as a leaf and get a low gen show. Also watch for newbie offers of tapes. I've seen a lot recently where someone has been kind enough to offer to make tapes for the first five respondants. Buy a Relix or Duprees Diamond Blues magazine; the free ads in the back are mostly trading. Write to a couple of people and see if they'll make you a show or two. Dont expect one person to make you more than four tapes at a time. Place you own ad there and offer to send blanks and return postage; a note of thanks might also be appreciated. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-14: DUBBING: how should I set my deck levels when copying tapes? From: ALEK GRABINSKI 1993May3If you are going to do ONE thing right, you will set the record levels properly! This means PEAKS at the appropriate level (for Type II tapes, between 0 & +3 dB; for metal, around +6 dB). The rest of the music will follow (ie, generally the sound runs between -4 & 0 dB & peaks a little above 0 dB on a properly recorded Type II tape). Tape quality has improved over the past five years to the point where a tape will be able to handle a little more than +3, but don't make this a rule. When setting levels, find a 'loud' part of a 'loud' song & use that to determine peaks. By a 'loud' part I don't necessarily mean something like the beginning chords of BBFCFM as much as I do a portion of the song where everyone is playing fully - heavy bass, low drums, power chords on guitar & keys. The finale to Bowie is good, or the chorus to Possum. Keep the levels consistent throughout both sides of the tape. Don't try to remaster your tapes by changing levels on the fly. Break out the tabs when you're done with each side. This lets you know that you've finished that side, & it prevents the recipient from accidentally erasing the tape you made them. IT'S A LOT EASIER TO UNINTENTIONALLY ERASE A TAPE THAN IT IS TO INTENTIONALLY UNERASE IT!!! ...these few tips should help make the world safer for good- sounding music. Alek Edwin <1993May4> says there are no rules: I've seen the subject of setting levels come up a couple of times. From my experience as an owner of several different decks & as an erstwhile studio engineer I've learned that for analog cassette decks there are no rules. Sony D5's have to be hit very hard so that the peak light is almost always on, while my portable Marantz PMD 250 is sensitive to the point that +2 saturated. I run the JVC decks at Wellspring Sound at between +8 & +10 with no distortion. Unless I record at +7 on my Nak it sounds quiet on other machines. Newer tapes can certainly handle a lot more level. The bottom line is that every responsible taper needs to take the tape of his/her choice & record at successively hotter levels until audible distortion occurs, then back off 2db & note the level. This level will be different for different tape types. And don't forget to clean with Intraclean & Demagnitize with a Handi-Mag on a regular basis. ...Finally...a good cheap mic with nice highs, stereo image but a little bass shy is the Audio Technica ATR 25 Stereo Mic. It sounds very good & is only about $75.From: Lee Silverman 1993Aug4 Setting levels is a somewhat complex issue, and basically depends on your tape decks and the kind of tape that you are using. First note that if you have a dubbing deck, it probably doesn't matter how you set the record levels when the deck is set to dubbing mode. Dubbing decks are designed to make exact copies of tapes, hence the "record level" knob is usually disabled in dubbing mode. To test this, try dubbing a sample tape. Let it record for thirty seconds, then turn the record level knob to zero, wait 15 seconds, and then set the record levels to 10 (or 11, if you have it B-) ) for 15 seconds. Stop the tape, go back, and listen to the copy. If the levels change, then you need to worry about setting them correctly. If they don't, you should probably read this anyway, but remember that there's nothing that you can do about the levels on the copy. As Edwin pointed out, many tape decks display tape levels differently. A tape in my Sony deck shows peaks at 0 to +2 db, while on my JVC the same peaks register at +4 to +6 db. So there is often no good way to say "set the levels so that the peaks are at x db" and have it work for everyone. However,almost all single-well decks have dolby and hence should have a dolby "double-D" [)(] symbol somewere on the record levels meter (some decks, like the JVC, have some other indicator that takes the place of the double-D). I'm not positive, but I think Dolby Labs requires some indicator on decks with dolby. In any case, the location of this point on the levels meter can be used as a reference zero db value. On my Sony deck, as with many other brands, the double-D coincides with zero on the record level meter. On my JVC, it's at +4, which explains why the peaks on the JVC register about 4 Db higher than on the Sony. The reason for this is that the Db values shown on the meter actually indicate the signal strength *relative* to a certain reference value that can differ between tape decks. That's why Db on the meter are written as +5 or -10; they indicate that the signal is that much louder or quieter than the reference value. When the Dolby double-D coincides with zero on the meter, it means that the company that made the tape deck has adopted Dolby Labs' reference value. So why is setting the levels on your tape deck so important? Just to demonstrate to yourself what can happen if the levels are set incorrectly, turn your record level knob to 10 and record a loud song, so that the peaks are way above what they should be. (Peaks at +8 or +10 should suffice.) Then listen to the tape (at lower volume) and you'll probably cringe. The broken, distored, almost grinding sound that you hear is distinctive of saturation, and it is the result of putting too much "energy" on the tape (speaking loosely). A magnetic tape can only handle a signal below certain strength, and above that strength saturation occurs. Further, the amount of "energy" that a tape can handle depends on the type of tape. Certain high-grade metal tapes such as the Maxell Vertex can handle higher signal strength than an average metal tape, which can handle more than a Chrome Oxide (CrO2) tape, which can handle more than a Normal (Iron Oxide - Fe2O3?) tape. This complicates matters for people with dubbing decks who want to record from a metal tape to a CrO2 tape. If the peaks on the metal tape are +6 relative to the dolby standard, for example, and you use a dubbing deck to record to a CrO2 tape, the deck will try to record those peaks at +6 on the CrO2 tape and it will probably saturate. There is nothing you can do to alleviate this problem, because the dubbing deck won't allow you to reduce the levels. The best advice for people with dubbing decks is to always dub from metal to metal, and CrO2 to CrO2 or Metal, or Normal to all three. Don't try to go down-grade the tape, or the copy may be saturated. Now set the record level knob to about 1 or 2, and record the same piece again, and see what happens. When you play it back, you'll notice that the hiss on the tape is very loud compared to the music. That's because all analog tape decks, no matter how good, add hiss at between -50 db and -40 db to a tape, every time you record. If you record a signal that is at the reference volume (0 db) and the tape deck adds -50 db of hiss to it, the signal is 10^5 (100,000) times as loud as the hiss. However, if you record the signal at -20 db, and the hiss goes on at -50 db, the signal is only 10^3 (1000) times as loud as the signal. The hiss has effectively become 100 times louder, because the signal is that much quieter. The ratio of the level of the signal to the level of the hiss is called the Signal to Noise ratio, and is usually abreviated S/N. When setting the levels on your tape deck, the idea is to get the signal as loud as possible to reduce the amount hiss relative to the signal, but not to saturate the tape. A complicating factor is that lower frequency sound (bass) has more "energy" than high frequency sound (cymbals, guitar solos, etc), and so is likely to saturate the tape at a lower volume. Even further, a tape starts to lose its high- frequency response as it gets near the saturation level. The ideal response of a tape is 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz; near the saturation point it can be as low as 20 Hz to 10,000 Hz (see the response curves that come with some tapes and/or tape decks for details). This means that you miss the high end when the music is loud, which is just when you want to hear it. After all that information, I actually have very little advice to give about how to set record levels, and it comes only in the form of the guidelines that I use myself. First, find the dolby double-D on your deck's record level meter; I'll call that level zero, so we're all working with the same standard. For a Normal (type I) tape, never exceed zero; set the levels so that the peaks barely reach it, if at all. For a CrO2 tape (type II), it is safe to let the peaks go a little (+2 db) above zero and you won't get any saturation, but I usually set the peaks so that they hit at about zero, to get better high-end response. On a metal tape (type IV), you can let the peaks go substantially above zero. I set mine to go to +4; some will say +6 is OK too; this number often depends on the brand of metal tape you use. I prefer to keep them a little lower than the max to take advantage of metal tapes' improved high-end response, but other people simply hate hiss, and think that adding hiss degrades a tape more than losing a little high-end, which the hiss might mask anyway, so they'll record the tape louder. It's up to you. Experiment a little to get a feel for what works with different brands of tape; TDK tapes will differ from Maxell tapes, which will differ from Sony tapes, which will differ from other tapes. Finally, note that on the JVC, the reference zero value changes for different types of tapes (metal, CrO2, etc). While this is a good idea for a number of reasons that I won't explain, it screws up previous discussion at the end of this section. Hence, when I talk about a reference zero level for a deck where the reference changes, use the reference for CrO2 tapes. As a parting note, I must second Alek's statement that setting the levels correctly when recording a tape is one of the most important things you can do when making a copy for someone. I have many tapes where the sound quality is *EXCELLENT* until the band starts playing loudly, and then it sounds like grunge, because someone above me set their levels too high. Likewise, I have many tapes with an enormous amount of hiss, because someone above me set the levels too low and a person down the line from them had to set the levels extra high in order to hear the music at all. The bottom line is this: if you screw up a tape for someone, you screw it up for everyone that that person might want to give the tape to, and everyone that they might want to give the tape to. We all share this music, and it's our responsibility to take a little extra time to do things right, rather than to be lazy and screw our friends. Set the record levels for the high gear of your soul; you've got to tape like an antelope - Out of control! -Lee ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-15: DUBBING: dual decks, cleaning, and AZIMUTH Tilden White asks:|I realize that high speed dubbing is no good, but I've always thought that in order to make a copy of a tape, you need to use a dual deck. What's a good or the best way to dub a tape (that is if dubbing = make a copy.)?Alek Grabinski answers:Subject: How to dubDate: Wed Oct 06 18:06:37 EDT 1993 The best way to make an analog dub is to take two high-quality cassette decks (at least one of which is a 3-head deck), and run the Tape Out from the source deck directly into the Rec In of the record deck. This eliminates noise added by other components (like the amp/receiver). Then set the bias for the record tape, set the levels, record about a minute of the tape while you are listening to the recording (NOT the master, hence the need for a 3-head deck), listening for distortion, make fine adjustments to levels, bias, and balance, stop the tapes, queue the master to 5 seconds before where you WISH it had started (no point in dubbing 90-second lead-ins), and start recording. Clean the heads of both decks every 10 hours, demagnetize every 20. Repeat ad nauseum. This assumes that you have two cassette decks, which is not necessarily a good assumption for a lot of people.Jeff Maggard responds: Subject: Re: How to dub -- AZIMUTH ADJUSTMENT! Date: Thu Oct 07 17:56:52 EDT 1993 What Alek didn't mention were two things that a serious taper should consider: 1) less important, but still necessary: get the deck 'tuned' up every 100-300 hours or every year. How does one get a deck tuned? Will any audio store do this? Take it to someone you trust to do a good job. Most audiophile-type hi-fi stores will do a better job than some cheez- o-matic garage-operations, IMO ...but your mileage will vary. Things to have them do at minimum: 1) calibrate the meters on playback and record 2) calibrate the transport speed(s) 3) calibrate the bias to the tapes you use most often 4) clean and demagnetize 5) set the head-azimuth to 'zero' 6) check the performance of the analog sections -- capacitors can get leaky after a couple years! This will cost approximately $50-$100, depending on the brand of deck, how cash-starved the recession-struck hi-fi shop is, and how much work your deck needs... ;-)2) Probably the single most important "trick" to making good tapes is to make sure the azimuth on the playback head matches the azimuth on the playback tape, especially if someone else's deck recorded that tape. There is a small azimuth adjustment screw on one side of the head that adjusts the angle of the head w/r/t the tape (that angle-relationship is called the head-azimuth, in case you didn't figure that out yet ;-). A very few expensive decks like the Nak CR-7A can adjust azimuth via a manual knob or automatically on the fly... ...and don't confuse this feature with the 'playback trim' feature on some NAD equipment (eg 6300), because that 'trim' knob is just a fancy EQ curve control, which IMtechnicalO is a cheap shortcut that doesn't solve the real problem! Decks like the CR-7A can cost more than $1000 new, so consider moving to DAT if you can afford to be that lazy ;-) Mis-adjusted azimuth can do a number of things including: 1) give you poor frequency response and/or muffled sound if you use Dolby NR. 2) cause the music to be out of phase, which can kill the stereo image 3) decrease the overall S/N ratio... [disclaimer: The following suggestions may be errant, even though they're not intended to be. I can't be responsible for what you do to your tape deck(s), whether my information is good or not, so don't do anything that might damage your deck!] Anyway, if you pop in a commercially recorded tape (one of the newer- higher-quality ones), and turn the azimuth-adjust-screw (a small spring-loaded screw on the side of the head assembly), you can hear big-time changes in the high-frequency response of the sound. In general, most commercially recorded tapes will be recorded with something close to 'proper' azimuth, but to do the job properly, have a properly-trained technician at a hi-fi do it for you. When the azimuth is set properly, both tape-hiss and high-frequency response will increase together, so you don't necessarily hear any DRASTIC improvements in the S/N, but if you're using Dolby B/C NR, it can make the difference between a clear playback and a VERY MUFFLED playback. That difference is quite obvious, and is the sole cause of dolby-induced generational signal degradation in my experience. With _ANY_ tape recorded on someone elses deck, there will ALWAYS be a finite amount of azimuth adjustment necessary for optimal playback on your deck -- no 2 decks can be 'perfectly' aligned -- and it's better to play back the tape with the same azimuth that it was recorded with, whether it's 'properly adjusted for zero azimuth' or not. If you deliberately (or not deliberately) mis-align the azimuth and record a tape, that signal on the tape will be recorded with that particular azimuth, and in order to maximize the sound quality on playback, you need to have the azimuth the same as it was during recording. WARNING: *** USE A PLASTIC SCREWDRIVER WHEN PERFORMING THE FOLLOWING ADJUSTMENTS!!!!! NEVER GET ANYTHING METAL OR MAGNETIC NEAR THE HEAD(S) OF YOUR TAPEDECK!!!! *** Electrostatic discharge can damage the delicate circuits in and around your tape deck. Make sure you are properly grounded to the deck before dorking with it. If you don't understand what this means, then you shouldn't be dorkin' with it in the first place!You can do this experiment with your dubbing deck: 1) Clean both transports and de-mag both heads. 2) Set the azimuth on your record head to any arbitrary angle and record from a CD onto a tape. You can also use FM radio noise if you like listening to hiss. You will probably have to remove the door on the cassette deck in order to do this. Most decks allow this -- and don't blame me if yours doesn't and you break your deck! 3) Play back the tape (with the same head/well) and compare it with the CD. It _should_ sound the same... or at least be pretty damn close! 4) Now, deliberately mis-adjust the azimuth on the same head and play back again and compare with the CD. You should be able to hear quite a difference. 5) Now, playing back the same tape recorded in (2), turn the azimuth adjust screw until you get the 'best' sound -- typically, the high-frequencies will be the loudest, and most-similar to the CD, as it was in (3). 6) You've just passed "Azimuth 101" with flying colors! 8-) 7) Azimuth 102 is basically the same adjustment, only made on a tape that someone else has sent you and with your playback deck instead of your record deck. 8) Your goal is to get the 'best' sound out of that tape so the folks you trade with will get a clone that is MOST-SIMILAR to the quality of the tape that you received. 9) If you can't set the azimuth on your record deck so that the head is perfectly parallel to the tape, then you should set the azimuth of your record deck to a 'standard.' The low-budget way to do this is to use a commercially-recorded tape. I use Junta for my deck..the cymbals in Divided Sky and David Bowie make for easier calibration. 10) So basically, what you will do is reset the azimuth on your record deck to a standard such as a commercially available tape like Junta -- better yet, take it to a hi-fi shop and have them set it PROPERLY; and to set the azimuth on your playback deck to match that which was used to record the source tape. There you have it. My "10 Easy Steps to a Better Recording!" courses on azimuth adjustment. You'll get the best results if you have a properly tuned and cleaned/demag'd deck, set bias, levels, etc. and you adjust the azimuth on the playback deck to match that on the tape you're playing back. The only real way to improve the sound beyond keeping your equipment clean, in-tune, and aligned is to blow the big bux on DAT equipment. ;-)ps - SUPPORT TERRAPIN TAPES! 800 677 8650. ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-16: DOLBY? DBX? what are they? (3 posts; some debate) From ljs@cs.brown.edu 1993May7 I don't have time for a really intricate response. dbx, as you know, is a less common feature in tape decks but can be done on an outboard encoder/decoder. Basically, dbx compresses a "~22Khz" signal into something significantly less than that & puts that on the tape, so that noise at the high end doesn't affect the quality of the tape. For example, if you have a 16KHz tone at - 10Db, it records a 10Khz tone at some other volume (no, these numbers are not accurate), probably less than -10Db. When you record this "compressed" signal on your tape deck, the deck adds noise to it, but it adds a lot more noise above ~15Khz than below, so frequencies recorded about 15Khz tend to be noisier. But dbx mapped your 16Khz frequency down to 10Khz, so the tape deck adds much less noise to that signal. When dbx goes to decode the signal, it takes the 10Khz signal that it recorded before & creates a 16Khz signal, probably a little louder than -10db because of the noise added at 10Khz on your tape deck, but not anything that you would notice without an oscilloscope. The advantage to this system is that you can buy a ~$200 dbx encoder & a ~$200 tape deck & get MUCH better sound than you could from a $400 tape deck. The disadvantage is that you can't play the tapes in your car, & it's tough to find people who trade/use dbx. S/N ratio: 90db (rumored). (BTW, I'm guessing at most of this, based on what little I know of dbx. Can someone clarify/correct me?) Dolby B/C boost the high end of your signal before they put the signal onto the tape, & cut it as it comes off, so that the net result is that noise added to the already increased high end is cut. For example, let's say you have a 16Khz tone at -10db. You record it with no dolby, & your machine adds -40db of noise. When you play it back, you have a -10db tone with -40db hiss in the background. If you record it Dolby B, the -10Khz tone is boosted up to 0Db. The tape deck adds -40 db of noise, as before. But on playback, Dolby B cuts the signals, so your tone goes back to being its original -10db but the noise is cut to -50Db instead of being -40Db, & -50 Db is 10 times quieter than -40db. No guarantees that that description is exactly correct, but the ideas are correct. The effective S/N ratio is about 50Db for dolby B, 60Db for Dolby C. Many tape deck manufacturers say that the ratios are 60 & 70 or something like that, but for real music I don't buy it, & particularly if you're copying a tape that's several generations old. Both dolby B & Dolby C are dynamic; they add & cut based on the existing signal stength & frequency, & never push a signal past 0db, to avoid saturation distortion. Dolby S also does essentially the same thing with the entire frequency spectrum. Dolby B is pretty insensitive to tape-deck parameters, so you can use it between decks. If you have *really* good ears you may hear some pumping that'll be a little disconcerting. Dolby C is MUCH more sensitive to tape deck parameters such as head alignment, bias adjustment, signal pickup, etc, etc, so that you can definetly tell when a dolby C tape is played on a tape deck that it wasn't recorded on. Hence, use dolby C for your own tapes only, & dolby B for trading. You can record a tape in dolby B & C & play it back without dolby, & often it sounds fine, or maybe a little hissy or tinny. That's because the signal itself hasn't really been changed, but the volume. Thus, you can play a dolby tape in your car stereo. With dbx, the tape sounds like your tape deck's motor is having a major fit; you can't listen to a dbx tape without decoding it. That's the reason why dbx never became very popular. Hope that's a reasonable summary of the differences. I know more about dolby than about dbx, so somebody please correct me or expand on what I've said if you think I'm wrong or unclear. Lee ====== From: Edwin Hurwitz <76420.1676@compuserve.com> 1993May8 Lee Silverman...has some things confused. Both (dolby & dbx) are compression formats that deal with decibels (db) not kilohertz (khz). dbx is full bandwidth compression & results in a peculiar sound when unencoded & dolby B & C are partial bandwidth , that is, the high end which is why it sounds like the treble is cranked. If you don't have dolby B on playback you can just reduce the treble control. Of course there is a large contingent of pholks who like it with dolby encoded but left out on playback for that extra crispness. If you have more questions, you know where to find me.......Edwin====== From: Bill Press 1993May8 | Both are compression formats that deal with decibels (db)| not kilohertz (khz).Although I did miss Lee's description, the above statement is not quite right (with all due respect, which is alot ;). Decibels refer to the magnitude (volume) of the signal, & kilohertz refers to the frequency. The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one can't describe a particular signal without including both measures. Dolby takes a certain range of frequencies (coincident with hiss noise) & boosts their intensity (decibels) before writing them to tape. This constitutes the encoded signal. Note that there is no compression involved here... the signal that's coincident with noise is being boosted, that's all. As the noise is relatively high frequency, playing back a dolby encoded tape with out decoding gives you a boosted treble. Decoding is merely lowering the intensity of the appropriate frequencies of the signal. Dbx, on the other hand, is a data compression scheme. It reorganizes the signal so that none of it is coincident with the tape hiss. The signal is then restored upon playback, while the hiss is left unplayed. Loosely speaking, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-17: PATCHING IN: etiquette (not answered yet) We need input from tapers (to jeg5s@virginia.edu) to construct an answer to this. I realize that there are enormous demands, and far too little thanks, laid at the feet of tapers, but I also realize that many of them, at one time or another, have only been able to patch in. So... what's ok? From: Pat Loughery Date: Thu Sep 23 21:09:37 EDT 1993 I'm considering the purchase of a DAT deck to tape at Phish and other shows, now that I've realized how fun it is to have live music around the house. What's the etiquette involved in patching into somebody else's deck who has a better setup than you? Or into a soundboard? Is it considered appropriate only to patch into somebody that you know, or can you just go up to a random taper or soundboard guy and ask him/her if you can patch into his stuff? ----------------------------------------------------------------- E-18: DCC and DAT: compared and considered From: jxr1092@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Jens Rodenberg) Subject: Re: New DAT Format Question Date: Mon Oct 11 14:49:11 EDT 1993 SBGOND@BNLDAG.AGS.BNL.GOV (JOHN-SONDERICKER) writes: > Hey has anybody used or bought the new digital tape> format type decks? [some text deleted...] Does this deck> sound as good as a DAT?I think it may be time for a new FAQ entry... :-) Both DCC (Digital Compact Cassette by Philips) and MD (Mini Disc by Sony) use a lossy compression method. Not all of the original signal will be retained when making copies onto DCC or MD. Whether or not it is audibly noticeable may depend on many things, such as the compression and decompression algorithms, the audio equipment, or the listener. The music is also likely to deteriorate as it goes through multiple generations. For a digital format, I believe that this is totally unacceptable. Quality of good music should not be sacrificed when not necessary. At the moment, DAT is the only format (besides PCM which is somewhat obsolete now) that allows accurate digital reproduction at a reasonable price, and I recommend DAT over DCC or MD. The prices of DAT decks and tapes are generally comparable or cheaper than DCC or MD, and either (or both) DCC or MD will probably die out soon. As Philips has recently said in a DCC ad: "Your music will never be the same!" I couldn't have said that better myself! Go DAT!!! >Are DAT decks soon to be a thing of the past?Soon? No- DAT is entrenched in the professional and high-end consumer market. Eventually? Yes- once mass storage technology drastically improves. That should take a while though, so don't put off buying a DAT deck waiting for that... Jens ----------------------------------------------------------------- end part 6 (of 6): E: live tape questions keep smiling, gliding, and riding that train!======================================================= ========== end rec.music.phish faq file editor/administrator: Ellis ("of Lemuria") Godard jeg5s@virginia.edu . s