From telecom-request@delta.eecs.nwu.edu Fri Aug 18 01:59:05 1995 by 1995 01:59:05 -0400 telecomlist-outbound; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:15:06 -0500 1995 23:15:03 -0500 To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu TELECOM Digest Thu, 17 Aug 95 23:15:00 CDT Volume 15 : Issue 350 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: Seven Digits Across NPA Lines (Bob Goudreau) Re: Seven Digits Across NPA Lines (Steve Cogorno) Re: Seven Digits Across NPA Lines (Carl Moore) Re: Seven Digits Across NPA Lines (Richard Harris) Area Code Confusion (L) By Ted Landphair/Washington (Danny Burstein) Re: Allnet Tries to Hide Adult Services (Jensoft) Re: Allnet Tries to Hide Adult Services (Michael Fumich) Re: Do Quiet Computers Exist? (Kevin P. Fleming) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 500-677-1616 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. 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A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bellaire@tk.com (James E. Bellaire) writes: > Q. Why should NPAs be required to split rather than be overlaid? > A. They should not. NPA overlays have been in use for several years in > New York and California. New York City's 917 NPA has certainly existed for several years, but as far as I know, it is the *only* overlay in the entire NANP (though overlays almost happened in other places like Chicago, Miami and Atlanta). What California NPA were you referring to? > This means 10 or 11 digit dialing for local > calls, with the old users being able to keep their numbers. Sometimes > 7 digit dialing is allowed IF the area code is the same. What service areas are there that *don't* allow intra-NPA local calls to be dialed using 7D? I'm not aware of any yet, although mandatory 10D dialing has been mooted as a future option for some metro areas that might receive overlay NPAs. > Q. Why should users be forced to use area codes when dialing across NPA > boundries [sic]? > A. They are not. Suprised? In many rural areas users can dial across NPA > and state lines with 7 digits. The only time 10 or 11 digits are used > is in major metropolitan areas. This latter statement is certainly false. Inter-NPA 7D dialing is the exception, not the rule, even in rural areas. Bob Goudreau Data General Corporation goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com 62 Alexander Drive +1 919 248 6231 Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA ------------------------------ James E. Bellaire said: > A. They should not. NPA overlays have been in use for several years in > New York and California. This means 10 or 11 digit dialing for local > calls, with the old users being able to keep their numbers. Sometimes > 7 digit dialing is allowed IF the area code is the same. NPA overlays certainly have *NOT* been used in California. There are currently 13 NPAs in California (707-North Coast, 916- Sacramento/Sierras, 415-San Francisco, 510-East Bay, 209-Central Valley, 408-San Jose/Central Coast, 805-Bakersfield/Southern Central Valley, 818-North LA Basin, 213-Los Angeles, 310-Central LA Basin, 714-Orange County, 909-Riverside/Imperial Valley, and 619-San Diego/California Desert). 542 may be an overlay, but that is two years from now. While I don't disagree that overlays are a good idea, it will take some consumer education. I don't like the idea of an overlay for landline phones though, because I don't want to have to remember what area code my friend has (seven digits to remeber is enough for me :-). It would be easier to put all wireless services into an overlay, then tell customers XXX is for wireless. Steve cogorno@netcom.com [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But the wireless people would never permit that since it would then be inconvenient for *their* customers. Consider the big stink here earlier with 630: Cellular One and Ameritech Mobile would have none of it. So we landline people are being forced to switch again. PAT] ------------------------------ What overlays have been in use? All I know of that's been around for a while is 917, which came in c. 1992 for cellular and pager overlay in New York City. What about California, other than the recent debate over area code 562? Local calls from Delaware to outside of it are still 7D. New Jersey (at least the Bell areas) is allowing 7D within NJ but usually 1+NPA+7D for out-of-state local. Old area 215 (Pa.) had 7D for local to other NPA, but this became 1+NPA+7D (followed later by removing 1 from 1+7D within 215). In Maryland: there's that NPA+7D scheme for local calls to DC and Va. suburbs and across the 301/410 border; but 7D remains for the scattered cases of local calls to Del., Pa., and W. Va. as well as one case from area 410 to area 804 on the eastern shore. I was in Ann Arbor (Michigan) last month, and find its local calling area is within area 313 except for South Lyon, which is in 810. I tried the two South Lyon prefixes from a pay phone in Ann Arbor, and had to use 7D for one of the prefixes and 1+810+7D for the other. (The South Lyon prefixes are 437 and 486, but not necessarily in that order.) I don't know what the general rule is for local calls from Michigan to other area code. ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest Editor wrote: > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: There really is no reason to ever go to > eleven digits as in 1+anything. The reason is that when we get to the > point that all calls must be dialed as AC + seven digits, we will no > longer need the initial '1' as a flag. Right now it serves as a flag > to indicate that an area code is following rather than a prefix. When > we get to where we always begin with an area code, then switches can > be modified to always expect ten digits and always expect the first > three to be an area code. PAT] Of course, that would prevent 0+ dialing :-). Better to do what you propose only if the first digit is N. Richard ------------------------------ TITLE=AREA CODE CONFUSION (L) BYLINE=TED LANDPHAIR TELEPHONE=619-3515 DATELINE=WASHINGTON EDITOR=NANCY SMART CONTENT= [INSERTS IN AUDIO SERVICES] [ED. NOTE. THIS IS ONE OF TWO PIECES ABOUT PROBLEMS WITH MODERN TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS. THIS ONE CONCERNS THE EXPLOSION OF AREA CODES. THE SECOND, SLUGGED "TELEPHONE FUTURE SHOCK," DEALS WITH THREE OTHER MODERN TELECOMMUNICATIONS CHANGES.] INTRO: BEFORE THE ADVENT OF COMPUTERS, THERE WAS A JOKE THAT MADE THE ROUNDS IN THE TELEPHONE BUSINESS. THE COUNTRY WAS GROWING SO FAST, AND SO MANY PEOPLE WERE CALLING OPERATORS TO PLACE LONG-DISTANCE CALLS AND FIND OUT OTHER PEOPLE'S TELEPHONE NUMBERS, THAT BY THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, IT LOOKED LIKE EVERYONE GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL WOULD HAVE TO BECOME A TELEPHONE OPERATOR IN ORDER TO SERVE ALL THE NATION'S NEEDS! THAT WON'T BE NECESSARY, OF COURSE, THANKS TO SOPHISTICATED COMPUTER NETWORKS THAT DO THE WORK OF THOUSANDS OF OPERATORS -- AND DO IT FASTER. BUT VOA'S TED LANDPHAIR SAYS AUTOMATION IN THE TELEPHONE BUSINESS HAS BROUGHT WITH IT SOME REAL HEADACHES. TEXT: LEWIS MUMFORD, THE BRILLIANT SOCIAL PHILOSPHER AND ARCHITECTURAL CRITIC OF THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, ONCE OBSERVED THAT AMERICANS CONFUSE PROGRESS WITH MECHANIZATION. NO DOUBT HE WOULD BE SHOCKED AT THE BLIZZARD OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS INNOVATIONS THAT HAVE COMPLICATED MODERN LIFE HALF A CENTURY LATER. THE TELEPHONE INDUSTRY, IN PARTICULAR, HAS DRASTICALLY CHANGED THE WAY WE COMMUNICATE. IN 1951, WHEN ONE COMPANY -- THE AMERICAN TELEPHONE AND TELEGRAPH COMPANY -- HAD A MONOPOLY ON LONG-DISTANCE SERVICES, IT INTRODUCED AREA CODES, WHICH BROKE THE COUNTRY INTO PIECES. THEY'RE SIMILAR TO CITY CODES OVERSEAS. EACH STATE GOT AT LEAST ONE AREA CODE, AND THE BIG, POPULOUS STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK GOT SEVERAL. THAT MEANT THE PHONE COMPANY'S SWITCHES COULD INSTANTLY RECOGNIZE WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU WERE TRYING TO REACH AND SEND THE CALL THERE. AND IT MEANT THAT YOU COULD DIAL LONG-DISTANCE CALLS YOURSELF. THESE AREA CODES ALL HAD A NUMBER 1 OR A ZERO IN THE MIDDLE, SUCH AS 4-ZERO-1, 4-ZERO-2, 516, 517 AND SO FORTH. UNDER THAT SYSTEM, THERE COULD BE AS MANY AS 144 AREA CODES. FEW PEOPLE BACK THEN THOUGHT WE'D EVER NEED THEM ALL. BUT THE NUMBER OF TELEPHONE USERS HAS EXPLODED SO MUCH THAT THE COUNTRY HAS NOW LITERALLY RUN OUT OF AREA CODES. THE SOLUTION SEEMED SIMPLE ENOUGH: DON'T JUST USE ZERO AND 1 AS THE MIDDLE NUMBER ANY LONGER. USE OTHER NUMBERS AS WELL. BUT THAT'S WHERE THE HEADACHES BEGAN. AMERICANS HAD GOTTEN USED TO DIALING 801 OR 412 OR ANOTHER SUCH NUMBER AS AN AREA CODE. WHEN WE SEE A NUMBER LIKE 219, WE KNOW IT MUST BE AN AREA CODE. IT HAS A 1 IN THE MIDDLE. SAME THING WITH OUR PHONE SYSTEMS AT THE OFFICE. THEY SAW A 219 AND SPED THE CALL OFF TO NORTHERN INDIANA, WHICH HAS THE 219 AREA CODE. BUT THEN BIG CITIES LIKE LOS ANGELES RAN OUT OF ALL THE POSSIBLE LOCAL NUMBERS, AND THEY STARTED USING NUMBERS LIKE 219 AS THE FIRST THREE DIGITS OF LOCAL NUMBERS. WHEN THE NATION RAN OUT OF AREA CODES, COMBINATIONS LIKE 941 THAT UNTIL THEN WERE RESERVED FOR LOCAL NUMBERS, STARTED SHOWING UP AS AREA CODES. ALL OF A SUDDEN, 941 WAS THE AREA CODE FOR A WHOLE SECTION OF FLORIDA -- NOT JUST THE FIRST THREE DIGITS OF YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S PHONE NUMBER ACROSS TOWN. SOME PEOPLE WHO FOUND OUT THAT 941 WAS NOW AN AREA CODE TRIED TO REACH FLORIDA -- AND GOT YOUR GRANDMOTHER INSTEAD!! PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY STARTED HEARING MESSAGES LIKE THIS: TAPE CUT ONE: WRONG NUMBER :11 (PHONE RINGS ONCE) [RECORDED FEMALE VOICE] "YOUR CALL CANNOT BE COMPLETED AS ENTERED. PLEASE CHECK THE NUMBER AND TRY AGAIN, OR CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR ASSISTANCE. MESSAGE NUMBER 44-2-3-ZERO." TEXT: HERE'S AN EXAMPLE: LES BROWN'S COMPANY IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE, BUILDS EQUIPMENT THAT OTHER COMPANIES USE TO MAKE NEWSPAPER VENDING BOXES. ONE OF HIS BIG CUSTOMERS IS IN MOBILE, [MOH-BEEL] ALABAMA. ALL OF ALABAMA USED TO BE UNDER ONE AREA CODE -- 2-ZERO-5. BUT THEN SOUTHERN ALABAMA GOT A NEW 3-3-4 AREA CODE, AND MR. BROWN'S PHONE SYSTEM IN MEMPHIS SIMPLY COULD NOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DIAL IT. TAPE CUT TWO: RECORDED OPERATOR MESSAGE :14 (PHONE RINGS ONCE) "THE AREA CODE YOU HAVE DIALED: 2-ZERO-5, HAS BEEN CHANGED TO 3-3-4. PLEASE TRY YOUR CALL AGAIN WITH A NEW AREA CODE. MESSAGE NUMBER 40-2-3-ZERO." TAPE CUT THREE: BROWN :09 "WE WERE UNABLE TO SELL THEM ANYTHING, AND THEY WERE UNABLE TO GET OUR MESSAGES, TO GET OUR FAXES [FACSIMILE COPIES], AND CONSEQUENTLY WE ENDED UP LOSING A LOT OF BUSINESS." TEXT: AT THE OTHER END OF THE LINE, THE ALABAMA COMPANY, R-A-K SYSTEMS, LOST MONEY, TOO. RICHARD KITZMANN IS PRESIDENT AND PART-OWNER. TAPE CUT FOUR: KITZMANN :11 "AT THE BEGINNING THEY WOULD GET A RECORDING THAT WOULD SAY, 'THIS PHONE NUMBER IS NO LONGER IN SERVICE.' SO THAT GAVE THEM AN INDICATION THAT WE WERE OUT OF BUSINESS." TEXT: RON CONNORS, IN EFFECT, IS IN CHARGE OF THE NATION'S AREA CODES. HE WORKS FOR BELLCORE, THE RESEARCH ARM OF THE VARIOUS BELL TELEPHONE COMPANIES AROUND THE COUNTRY. HE SAYS, JUST AS THE PHONE COMPANIES ARE HAVING TO UPGRADE THEIR SYSTEMS TO ACCOMMODATE THE MILLIONS OF NEW PHONE NUMBER AND AREA CODE COMBINATIONS, SO CUSTOMERS ARE SIMPLY GOING TO HAVE MODERNIZE THEIR TELEPHONE SYSTEMS, OR WHAT ARE SOMETIMES CALLED P-B-XES. IT'S THE PRICE OF PROGRESS. TAPE CUT FIVE: CONNORS :26 "THEY COULD GO TO K-MART [DISCOUNT STORE] AND BUY THE 'BLUE-LIGHT SPECIAL.' HERE'S A P-B-X FOR 99 DOLLARS AND 95 CENTS. AND PEOPLE SEE THAT AND SAY, 'WOW, THAT'S REAL CHEAP. I CAN PUT THIS IN, AND MY BUSINESS IS GOING TO BE GREAT. I'LL SAVE MONEY.' AND THE PROBLEM IS, THOUGH, THAT THESE THINGS ARE FINE, BUT THE NETWORK CHANGES AND HAS TO BE UPGRADED. AND PEOPLE HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT AS PART OF THEIR OBLIGATION WHEN THEY BUY A PIECE OF THE NETWORK, SO TO SPEAK." [/////BEGIN OPT////] TEXT: MR. CONNORS SAYS THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE TO BUYING THE NECESSARY EQUIPMENT TO KEEP UP WITH TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS. THAT GOES FOR THE VARIOUS PHONE COMPANIES, WHICH MUST UPGRADE OR RE-PROGRAM EVERY SWITCH, EVERY CIRCUIT, AND EVERY DATABASE THAT DEALS WITH LONG DISTANCE. AND IT APPLIES TO CUSTOMERS, WHOSE EQUIPMENT HAS TO KEEP PACE IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO CALL ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY OR IN THE WORLD. TAPE CUT SIX: CONNORS :13 "IT'S GOTTA HAPPEN. WE WERE OUT OF AREA CODES. WE WERE OUT OF NUMBERS. THE PLAN HAD TO EXPAND. THERE'S BEEN AN EXPANSION PLAN IN PLACE FOR 30 YEARS. IT HAD TO HAPPEN. THERE IS NO CHOICE. IF PEOPLE WERE TO CONTINUE TO GET PHONE NUMBERS, THIS CHANGE HAD TO BE MADE." [/////END OPT////] TEXT: WHICH BRINGS TO MIND ANOTHER QUOTATION. IN 1970, ALVIN TOFFLER WROTE, "FUTURE SHOCK IS THE SHATTERING STRESS AND DISORIENTATION THAT WE INDUCE IN INDIVIDUALS BY SUBJECTING THEM TO TOO MUCH CHANGE IN TOO SHORT A TIME." (SIGNED) ·_ NEB/TL/NES 11-Aug-95 4:50 PM EDT (2050 UTC) NNNN Source: Voice of America ------------------------------ North Coast Communications (0005082894@mcimail.com) wrote: > I am looking for ANY information on the following companies; > Beylen Communications > WKP Communications or WKP Long Distance (Seattle WA) pic 10718 > International Audiotext Network Inc. (location unknown) pic 10509 Pat, Here's the info. Ry I found two spellings of the first one ... I tried B[ae]yl[ae]n for a search. Here's what I found: Baylan Communications Inc Vienna VA 703-450-6446 Beylen Inc New York NY 212-843-4300 International Audiotext Network Seattle WA 206-286-5200 This last one isn't exact, but it's a likely culprit! W K Enterprises Inc Tacoma WA 206-767-0617 Wicker [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: It would be interesting to see what the one in Vienna, Virginia is all about. Michael Fumich has an updated report on the others you mention next. PAT] ------------------------------ The story so far: On 8-7-95 I was informed by a source at US West that three "500" prefixes (200, 739, & 938) were now online. 1+ calls to the "4141" test numbers reported "You have reached the ALLNET network - Switch 47.8". My source further related that random 1+ calls were branded "WKP Long Distance" (an Adult Services Provider), and that the calls were being forwarded to Hong Kong @ "Three Ninety Nine" per minute. (No decimal point - hope it's not $399.00!! :+) "0+" calls to the "WKP Long Distance" branded numbers provided the ALLNET jingle. All of this indicated to me the calls were most likely handled by ALLNET and that they were responsible for these prefixes. I called ALLNET Corporate Offices about this matter several days later and was told that ALLNET does not issue "500" numbers, business, personal, or otherwise. I was also told that it was AT&T that was transporting all 500 calls and that I should call them (AT&T said absolutely not!). ALLNET also stated that it is official company policy not to be involved with adult service providers, and they did not list WKP or Beylen in their records. On 8-13-95 the 1-500-NXX-4141 test numbers began reporting that I have reached the "SPR - Worldcall Network". 0+ calls still gave the ALLNET jingle however. On 8-14-95 I wrote TELECOM Digest requesting from readers information leading to the unmasking of the persons responsible for this matter. Several wrote and provided very helpful leads. Beylen - PIC Code 10718 (per list available at Telecom Archives): ^^^^^^ A reader reported a phone number 212-843-4300. I called this number and it was answered by a young woman who answered "Beylen". I asked what sort of business this was and I was told "communications". I then began to question her further and she transferred me to "John". "John" would not elaborate what type of "communications" business this was. He also denied any knowledge of PIC 10718. When I asked if he knew of WKP he said "NO!" and became extremely defensive. As Pat has stated on other matters, you can tell almost every time when you are being lied to. NYNEX reports - Beylen Inc. / 12 E. 53rd NYC / 212-758-3116 This number was directly answered "Good Afternoon" by "John". WKP Communications aka WKP Long Distance - PIC Code 10718 (per Ameritech): ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Integretel reports - WKP Communications, Inc. 1200 5th Ave. / Suite 1206 Seattle WA 98101 I then checked the whois database @rs.internic.net and they were actually listed! The above address was given, with a phone number of 206-622-3385. This phone answers "Communications Group". I did not question further figuring it would be pointless. The plot thickens!: When I dial 10718-1-700-555-4141, the equal access test number, I find that I have reached "The Equal Access Dialing" network. When I dial 10718 +0 + # to reach an operator the call does not complete and gives me Switch "WCCH2". The exact same thing happens with 10509, assigned to International Audiotext Network Inc. , also of Seattle WA. In fact, several PIC's known to be used by Adult Service Providers gave me the recordings described above. The heart of the matter?: "WCCH2" in fact indicates the call is being handled by WCT, Inc. a long distance company located in San Luis Obispo CA. I was informed that "Worldcall" was one of their brands. WCT is owned by Frontier Communications International as is (surprise!) ALLNET. I probed further (and higher up) and when I mentioned WKP? BOOM! "Who are YOU!" "What do you REALLY want?" "No Comment!" etc., etc. etc. My mother had a saying she was rather fond of ... "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive" . This is a very tangled web indeed! So ... who assigns the "500" prefixes? Bellcore? FCC?. Who are these prefixes assigned to? ALLNET? WCT? Frontier? or God Forbid, WKP? Inquiring minds want to know!!! (And Thank You! to thse that wrote and called. Please note that the number in my .sig is Voice Mail Only, I have no way to answer it directly.) Michael L. Fumich / E-Mail: <3311835@mcimail.com> / Phone: 708-461- 5770 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well readers, if your PBX is capable of screening as far the prefix within an area code, you might want to blacklist 500-200, 500-739, and 500-938 to keep those employees of yours who have idle time on their hands, unclean thoughts in their minds and lust in their hearts from running up your bill too much. I hate to see people block 1- 500 entirely as a result of things like this, but maybe it will come to that also. And don't forget 900-999. That one is very bizarre and very expensive. Michael, you mentioned how Allnet tried to hide what they are doing, but I want you to know they are not unique. If you are ever able to get anyone at AT&T to own up to the deal they cut with the people in Nevada for those chat lines or the deal they have with the telco in Bonaire, Netherland Antilles for hot chat -- for people who like to 'do fone' -- I would be very surprised. You might want to also look into the Vienna, Virginia operation alluded to by the other correspondent in this issue and see what those people are about. It occurs to me that one very good public service this Digest might perform would be a complete expose of who runs what in the world of adult phone services. I think it would be great to put togther a file which gave the names and home or real business addresses of the slime involved in these things. Their personal name and address, their corporate names, their PIC codes, the prefixes they use both in 900 service as well as 500 and 800, etc. We would want to include the address of their mail drop, identified as such along with how to *really* reach them when a victimized phone subscriber had something they wanted to say, etc. Of course we would want to include the names and home addresses of each officer of their various corporations, the name and address of the person who accepts their legal service, etc ... all of which is public information, so please, no bleeding hearts need take me to task for alleged invasions of privacy. And I do not grouse about them because they do sex talk on the phone. My complaint is that they moved out the tidy little box we had for them known as 900/976 where phone system admins could be protected against abuse, and began abusing 800 as well. I don't care what anyone chats about on the phone or their computer as long as they pay their own bills, and 900/976 along with billed number screening was one way to assure that was pretty much done. PAT] ------------------------------ In article , Peter Rukavina wrote: > I have been a PC owner for 15 years, and am just now becoming aware of > how much the constant hum of cooling fans and hard disk drives > detracts from the experience of using them. I could never figure out > why an hour or two of work would send me away with a headache and > fatigue, but the recent pleasant experience of using a friend's laptop > convinced me that noise was part of the problem. > I'd buy a laptop, but the small screen and cramped keyboard [to say > nothing of the price!] would only cause me other ergonomic problems. > So I am wondering: are manufacturers who produce "silent" or > noise-reduced desktop PC-compatible machines? Such a question > produces only blank stares from local computer dealers. Well, I don't know of a manufacturer that produces machines specifically designed to be quiet ... but any good clone builder (like my company) can specify components that will do the job. For example, my home PC (the one I'm using right now), has a Conner FilePro 1.2G IDE hard drive. This drive makes no perceptible spinning noise, and the seeking noise is quite tolerable. When the system shuts the drive down after inactivity, of course, it's completely silent, as would any drive be. In addition, a PC Power and Cooling Silencer power supply will automatically slow down (and even shut off) its internal fan, as the heat load and power draw decreases. So for all intents, you could build your silent PC pretty easily. Kevin Fleming, Reliable Networx, Inc. Phoenix, AZ Internet: kpfhome@primenet.com ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V15 #350 ******************************