1    This is only a sample transcript for Court Reporter Pro

 2                         (At this point, Dr. Richard

 3                  Hernandez, Dr. Bob Rickman, Dr. Paul

 4                  Harry, and Dr. Kerry Bush entered the

 5                  hearing room.)

 6    

 7               TESTIMONY OF THE CLINIC DIRECTORS

 8    

 9                  DR. RICKMAN:  The reason I have asked the

10    clinic directors to come in here is because there is a 

11    certain process that we follow when we make decisions in 

12    the clinic.  One of the things that we do is that we 

13    meet on a weekly basis from roughly 10:00 in the morning 

14    until 3:30 or 4:00 in the afternoon.  It is a pretty 

15    intensive meeting, and there is a lot of exchange and a 

16    lot of dialog that goes on.  

17                  And we discuss all clinic matters and all 

18    decisions that are made in the clinic, or at least at 

19    one level.  Those discussions are discussed among this 

20    group in a pretty open fashion.  And I will let them 

21    speak to that.  

22                  I want them to give you an idea of the 

23    discussions that we went through relative to 

24    Dr. Richards and whether or not he should be held to the

25    10:00 to 4:00.  Let's face it, this thing breaks

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 1    down, basically, to a time issue.  We are saying that we 

 2    have a right as an institution to require Dr. Richards

 3    to stay in the clinic until four o'clock.

 4                  Every other clinician is asked to do that 

 5    and does it for the most part.  If they do leave, they 

 6    have to get permission from their supervising clinic 

 7    director.

 8                  Is that true in all the case in the 

 9    clinic?  

10                         (All four witnesses nodded their

11                  heads up and down in the affirmative.) 

12                  Do any of your clinicians leave before 

13    four o'clock if they are on a 10:00 to 4:00 shift 

14    without permission from you? 

15                         (All four witnesses shook their

16                  head from side to side in the negative.)

17                  THE REPORTER:  You will need to answer 

18    verbally so that I can get in on the record.

19                  DR. NILES:  No.

20                  DR. HERNANDEZ:  No.

21                  DR. MARTINS:  No.

22                  DR. BUSH:  No.

23                  DR. WONG:  All four say no.

24                  DR. RICKMAN:   What I am trying to

25    establish is that we expect our clinical faculty to 

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 1    fulfill their contract to stay in the clinic during the 

 2    hours that they contracted to be there.

 3                  Now, if there are any special arrangements 

 4    that are made, such as Dr. Schelly's or anybody else's,

 5    that has to be approved through the clinic director.  

 6    And that's the way we function in all clinics.  

 7                  Again, am I saying the truth here?

 8                  DR. HERNANDEZ:  Yes.

 9                  DR. BUSH:  Yes.

10                  DR. NILES:  Yes.

11                  DR. MARTINS:  Yes.

12                  DR. RICKMAN:   Again, the issue here is

13    does the college have a right to ask Dr. Richards to do

14    what everybody else is doing in the clinic system?  It's 

15    as simple as that.  And it's as straightforward as that 

16    as far as I'm concerned.  

17                  Now, we had a discussion when Dr. Sawyer

18    had to be replaced by Dr. Melon, and the issue of

19    whether or not Dr. Richards ought to be asked to

20    maintain the schedule that he was given a memorandum 

21    about on July 9, whether or not we should go ahead and 

22    continue to do what Dr. Marshall had done on an informal 

23    basis or not.  

24                  And I guess I'm just going to ask you to 

25    comment on that individually.  What was your -- start 

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 1    with you, Chuck.  What was your attitude about that?

 2                  DR. HERNANDEZ:  That was the issue on the

 3    table at the time during the directors' meeting.  And I 

 4    had agreed that Dr. Richards would have to conform to

 5    the normal hours from 10:00 to 4:00.  And I'll let the 

 6    other doctors speak for themselves.

 7                  DR. RICKMAN:   Kevin was director of the

 8    Wright Brothers Clinic at that time.

 9                  DR. BUSH:  Yes, I remember that meeting.

10    Basically, we agreed that he should have to stick to the 

11    same schedule.  And we all agreed that he should have to 

12    conform to a normal schedule.

13                  DR. RICKMAN:  Dr. Harry?

14                  DR. NILES:  Exactly.  Three o'clock is one

15    of the busiest times in the clinic.  And you need all 

16    your floor supervisors on the floor at that time.  

17    Everyone agreed that that was an appropriate thing to 

18    do.

19                  DR. RICKMAN:  Dr. Rickman?

20                  DR. MARTINS:  I agreed that Dr. Richards

21    should observe the standard shift from 10:00 to 4:00.  

22    That's also my opinion.

23                  DR. RICKMAN:   And the reason that we felt

24    as a group that this was an appropriate thing to do was 

25    because of, as I recall, the amount of activity that 

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