NRA-ILA FAXLINE NRA Institute for Legislative Action 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030 Phone: 1-800-392-8683 * Fax: 703-267-3918 7/25/95 NRA-ILA Special Report THE WACO HEARINGS: DAY FIVE "Who Fired First?" - The Question Remains Despite claims by New York Congressman Charles Schumer that the issue has been put to rest, the question of who fired first was raised yet again in Congressional hearings into Waco. Today, the fifth day of the House Waco Hearings, was slated to investigate the role of the FBI and the Justice Department during the 51-day siege. But the first panel, comprised of Dick DeGuerin and Jack Zimmerman, attorneys for David Koresh and Branch Davidian Steve Schneider, went straight to challenging the conventional wisdom on the shooting incident and attacked "some desk-bound bureaucrat" for giving the April 19 raid the go-ahead. DeGuerin and Zimmerman became involved in the negotiations between the FBI and the Davidians 30 days after the initial BATF raid on the Mt. Carmel center. As attorneys for the Davidians, both men made repeated visits inside the Mt. Carmel center to speak with Koresh, Schneider and the other Davidians. They testified that the Davidians believed that, during the initial raid, it was BATF who fired the first shots and that the helicopters which participated in the raid also fired at the center. Zimmerman: "If the Branch Davidians intended to ambush those people with 48 machine guns and .50 caliber machine guns, and they came up in unprotected cattle cars with nothing but tarps on them, they would have blown them away." DeGuerin: "And what I saw and what I was told was very compelling, that the ATF fired first." Referring to the two front doors that led to the Center, DeGuerin said, "I went in and out of that door ten times. And I saw the bullet holes on (sic) the door, on the right side. Almost every bullet hole was an incoming round. And what I mean by that, itūs a metal door. You could easily tell that the bullets were incoming rounds. They were punched in." Predictably, U.S. Rep. Charles Schumer objected: "Of course the majority of bullet holes would be through -- would be going in that direction, because the Davidians are not going to keep the door closed and shoot through it." Not according to the Treasury Report on the raid. "Koresh slammed the door before the agents could reach it. Gunfire from inside the Compound burst through the door. The force of the gun fire was so great that the door bowed outward."(page 96) DeGuerin and Zimmerman suggested two scenarios in which BATF fired the first shots. Zimmerman stated that he was told by someone in the media who had inside contacts with BATF that, during the initial stages of the raid, at least one BATF agent had an accidental discharge of their firearm while exiting the vehicle. "That was information that was given to us by someone in the press who had a confidential source within the ATF who indicated that someone said that he was coming out of the back of that [vehicle]. He tripped, his weapon wasn't on safe, and it discharged." DeGuerin testified that the Davidians told him that BATF agents fired upon and killed the Davidian's dogs at the start of the raid. He further indicated that killing the dogs was a part of the BATF raid plan. In either case, both DeGuerin and Zimmerman were convinced by the words of the Davidians themselves and the evidence they observed during the siege -- bullet holes in the doors, walls and ceilings of the Mt. Carmel center, comments by a journalist with a confidential BATF source -- and, after the fateful gas attack on the center on April 19th, photographs taken of the complex during and after the initial raid -- that it was BATF who fired first. Deal Made, And Broken, By Gas Attack. Perhaps the most disturbing testimony today from Zimmerman and DeGuerin was their assertion that on April 14th they were assured by FBI Special Agents Jeffrey Jamar and Byron Sage that they had "quote all the time in the world," according to Zimmerman. The attorneys stated that this information was a great relief to them, because they felt they had just made a breakthrough with David Koresh. At this time, Koresh indicated that he and the other Davidians would come out after he had finish writing his interpretation of the "Seven Seals." Since Koresh had finished writing the first seal in two days, DeGuerin and Zimmerman were hopeful that they could negotiate a surrender by the Davidians within two weeks. DeGuerin and Zimmerman believed that a peaceful resolution to the siege was at hand. The first they heard of the April 19th gas attack on the Mt. Carmel center was 6 a.m. the morning of the attack when their telephones started ringing off the hook. "I felt betrayed," said Zimmerman. "I was clearing my schedule. I thought they'd be out within another ten days, and I could not believe that the FBI or the Justice Department or whoever it was would undertake such a dangerous operation knowing that there were old men and pregnant women and children in there. I just couldn't believe that they would do that." "Waco News Shifts from Politics to Substance" After focusing mainly on the politics behind the Waco hearings, media accounts have shifted abruptly to the events actually being debated on Capitol Hill, according to a new study by the Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA). The study pointed out that today's Washington Post ran the first news story on civil liberties issues raised by the Waco hearings, while the television networks continued to downplay the story. According to CMPA, coverage of (Day 4 -- Monday July 24, 1995) examined reasons for the failure of the BATF raid on the Branch Davidian compound, in contrast to previous news accounts that stressed partisan squabbling between the GOP-led House investigative committee and the Clinton Administration. CMPA found that among the major newspapers, the Washington Post continued to lead the Waco coverage with 4 stories and 88 column inches of text, compared to one brief story apiece in the New York Times (26 inches) and USA Today (14 inches). According to CMPA, anticipating today's hearings, the Post published a lengthy story by religion reporter Laurie Goodstein on the religious freedoms of unconventional sects. CMPA points out that this is the only major media story to date that focuses on civil liberties issues raised by the hearings. CMPA stated in its report on Day 4 that the commercial broadcast networks continued to downplay the hearings in their evening news shows, airing only one two minute story apiece. Once again, CMPA points out PBS's MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour devoted more airtime (over 8 minutes) to this story than ABC, CBS, and NBC combined, including lengthy snatches of unedited testimony from the hearings. According to CMPA, the BATF's decision to stage its ill-fated February 28 raid dominated the news, getting extensive play in 8 of the day's 11 Waco-related stories. For the first time since the hearings began last Wednesday, NRA involvement and other motives for the hearings played little role in the coverage, found CMPA in its daily report. CMPA's also reported that BATF undercover agent Robert Rodriguez and raid supervisor Chuck Sarabyn became the first witnesses to receive more sustained media discussion than Kiri Jewell attracted with her charges of sexual abuse by David Koresh. CMPA's research also found that the news featured heavy criticism of BATF actions in planning and carrying out the February 28 raid. Of the statements logged by CMPA of sources and reporters that evaluated BATF, 75% were critical of the agency. By contrast, CMPA found that only two statements criticized the Congressional committee. Prior coverage had criticized Congress and its investigation as frequently as the executive branch agencies whose actions and decisions at Waco are being investigated. Tomorrow: The Gas Attack In a brief comment, U.S. Rep. Schumer took exception to DeGuerin's and Zimmerman's use of the term CS gas. "Mr. DeGuerin said not tear gas but CS gas," an agent Schumer described as "the mildest form of tear gas." Tomorrow, the hearing will focus on the planning and approval of the CS gas attack -- and whether that gas was mild indeed. EVEN LOWER MEMBER DISCOUNT ON TRANSCRIPTS!! Complete transcripts of the hearings are available to NRA members for an even LOWER DISCOUNT RATE of $9.95 a day!! Call Jack Graeme at the Federal News Service at 1-800-969-3677 to receive a daily transcript. Be sure to mention that you're an NRA member to secure the incredible discount rate. Hearing quotes excerpted from Federal News Service transcripts. =+=+=+=+ This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, Fairfax, VA. This and other information on the Second Amendment and the NRA is available at any of the following URL's: http://WWW.NRA.Org, gopher://GOPHER.NRA.Org, wais://WAIS.NRA.Org, ftp://FTP.NRA.Org, mailto:LISTPROC@NRA.Org (Send the word help as the body of a message) Information may also be obtained by connecting directly to the NRA-ILA GUN-TALK Bulletin Board System at (703) 934-2121.