TELECOM Digest Sat, 4 Feb 95 00:48:00 CST Volume 15 : Issue 78 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson How I Fooled Caller ID (John Combs) Sprintnet Question (Berton Corson) Substitute for BellSouth's Simon (Bob Baxter) Most Pressing Problems Facing Network Managers and Planners? (R. Jacobson) Video Dial Tone Information Wanted (pcohen@cpva.saic.com) South American Telecom News Wanted (Steve Samler) ANSI,ITU Information Needed (Edgar Murillo Montero) Directory Assistance Vendor Wanted (Steve Bauer) NYNEX Does it Again ... Not! (Tony Pelliccio) Can Anyone Recoomend Excell LD Phone Service? (Chris Telesca) Caller ID to TouchTones Help Needed (Lars Nohling) Memorex PBX Help Needed (Sergei Fishel) RS-422 - How Far at 1KHz? (Dave Dolomond) ATT 500 Number Working in PacBell-land Today (John Landwehr) OKI 1150 Cell Phone Help Wanted (Timothy F. Cooper) Very High Speed Wireless Communication Wanted (Yoji Hasegawa) Telstra (Australia) Information Wanted (britos@scf.usc.edu) ACD/Call Router Information Needed (T.J. Oconnell) Seeking Telecom Library (Dermot Wall) Re: Radio Station Transmission Lines (Alan Boritz) Re: 7/8ths Heliax Sources Needed (Jack Daniel) Re: 7/8ths Heliax Sources Needed (Mark Fletcher) Re: Who Are the Telephone Pioneers of America? (bkron@netcom.com) Re: Who Are the Telephone Pioneers of America? (John Skalko) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 708-329-0571 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. ********************************************************************** *** * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. 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Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 22:16 EST From: Testmark Laboratories <0006718446@mcimail.com> Subject: How I Fooled Caller ID TELECOM Digest Editor mentioned in a recent TELECOM Digest that he thought a Caller ID box could be fooled if the Calling Party sent a burst of their own Bell 202-type modem tones the instant the Called Party answered. I decided to try this in our lab, and he's right! Standalone Caller ID boxes that display calling number, or calling number and name, "listen" all the time, and any time a valid incoming Caller ID comes in, they display it! I checked several brands, and they all behaved this way. Someone should alert the telcos and police, so innocent people won't be accused of prank calls. I can already think of several evil plots that could be made in movies of the week. However, I also had a couple high-end telephones handy which included the Caller ID feature, and they wouldn't accept a new Caller ID after going off-hook. The reason for this is both phones are ADSI Level 3, and they comply with the exhaustive Bellcore requirements. An ADSI Level 2 or Level 3 telephone that accepted Caller ID after going off-hook would fail some Bellcore tests. Unfortunately, an ADSI Level 1 or Level 2 device that wasn't a true telephone, e.g., a standalone Caller ID box, could still be fooled by an off-hook Caller ID burst, and the design would pass the Bellcore requirements. In case you're been muttering, "What the heck is ASDI," I'll give a brief explanation. The acronym stands for Analog Display Services Interface, and it is a new type of telephone designed to work on a standard, analog telephone line. (POTS line, Plain Old Telephone Service) There are three "levels" of ADSI: Level 1: Calling name and number after the first ring. Level 2: Calling name and number with call waiting. Level 3: A telephone with a display screen. (The "D" in ADSI.) ADSI Level 3 came about because Bellcore did a study to determine how to sell more features on a telephone line, such as call waiting, or call forwarding. (The RBOCs like to sell these extra features as they are revenue above the standard line charge, and quite profitable.) The study concluded that many people didn't buy extra features because they didn't want to fool with code sequences to enable/disable features, such as *69. Bellcore's solution was ADSI. A Level 3 device has a screen that must be 20 characters across by 6 rows, and can be 40 characters across by more rows. There are from four to six "softkeys." Menu trees of softkeys can be downloaded to an ADSI phone, and stored in memory as a "script." The user gets plain English displays (or the language of your choice), and can press softkeys to activate telco features, or even order new ones directly from the phone! The REAL attraction of ADSI is that ANYONE can have their own ADSI server! After all, it's designed to work on analog lines. In a couple of years, a screen phone will be used to call the local video store, scroll through the new releases, and even reserve one for later pickup. Or, perhaps one could call Domino's, order a pizza and toppings. Just imagine calling a business, and instead of getting the tedious voice mail prompts telling you to press *1 to do something, you get a text screen that lets you scroll though a directory of employees and select who you want! The high end ADSI phones that I have tested even have things like pull-out QWERTY keyboards for data entry, PCMCIA Type I slots, "smart card" slots, and magnetic strip card readers! Bellcore deserves praise for this well thought out service, laid out in several Bellcore standards. Another smart move on their part is that they didn't bother submitting the standard to an international standards body to try to get it adopted. (We all know how long that takes.) Instead, they have been visiting the PTTs of dozens of countries, and trying to convince them to sign on to the ADSI standard as defined by Bellcore. Several European nations have expressed interest already, as have Pacific Rim nations, including China. ADSI is being field-trialed by a few RBOCS right now, including Ameritech in Chicago. Ameritech is selling high-end Phillips ADSI screen phones at cost for only $200 each, and primarily marketing it for enhanced banking features from your home, along with the ability to easily order/change custom calling features. It is estimated that there will be between 5 and 15 million ADSI Level 3 screen phones in North America by 1998, and I suspect the higher number is more accurate. Once you've tried one, you don't want to give it up! It is my opinion that ADSI, along with V.34 modems giving true 115 kbps data throughput (via compression), could be an ISDN BRI "killer" one-two punch. ISDN is STILL not ubiquitous, the local telcos don't understand it and don't sell or market it effectively, and it will NEVER be offered in the boondocks where I live. (Mayo, Kentucky) In closing, perhaps the Editor will permit a small plug for my employer. TestMark Labs is currently the ONLY alternative to Bellcore itself, if you want your ADSI product tested for compliance to the full Bellcore requirements. By the way, even though ADSI works on POTS lines, it qualifies as PANS. (Pretty Amazing New Stuff.) John Combs, Project Engineer, TestMark Laboratories, testmark@mcimail.com [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The thing to remember with Caller-ID is to look at the display *before* you answer, not afterward! Or if you do go back and review it afterward, do so in a discerning and sophisticated way. Bogus information sent down the line while you are in the process of going off hook and getting the phone to your ear probably won't look quite the same. For example, the time will probably not be shown, since telco usually sends this. I've never seen a CID box with its own clock. Even if there is a time sent with the bogus information, look to see if it is the same time as the real one. It would be highly unlikely you had two calls in the same 'minute'. Look to see if the one right before the one currently displayed says 'private' ... at the same minute in time yet! Keep your eye on the CID display as you take your phone off hook and bring it to your ear. Notice it suddenly change? It is hard to explain how or why, but after you have had CID for awhile its like when you are on the phone all day. You *know* what you are supposed to hear next in terms of ringing tones, etc. You'll get with CID to where you *know* what you are supposed to be seeing. Something different pops up and if you have sort of trained your eye to notice things, you *will* see that something does not look right; you will flip through the entries in the memory and sort it out. Even if the prankster has the sense to send the time stamp along, unless he has his clock synchronized with *your* central office's clock (your office supplies the time, not his) then his bogus entry may have a time one or two minutes *before* the real one. You would not have an entry in the display which came afterward but with a time prior to the one before it, and if you do, that's a giveaway. After a few calls with CID, you learn what to expect there and how, etc. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Berton Corson Subject: Sprintnet Question Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:29:45 PST Patrick: Got a question. I'm drawing a blank here. In using Sprintnet, one types a 'C' followed by a destination to connect to another system. I forgot the destination I use to look up Sprintnet local phone numbers. I remember both passwords were 'PHONES' but the destination escapes me. Do you know??? Bert [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: It seems to me the mystery word is 'MAIL'. I think you do 'C MAIL' then the password 'PHONES'. At one time I wrote an article for the net entitled 'Let Your Fingers do the Walking'. It was a long, detailed account of all the interesting connections you could get (at that time) depending on what you entered after the 'C'. I listed quite a few test numbers, loop-arounds, manual terminals with operators you could interactively chat with, etc. I listed in one part of my article novelty connections you could make to things like the British Telecom Master Clock, a master clock in Japan operated by whoever Telenet (the old name for Sprintnet) gatewayed with over there, etc. I included a bunch of addresses which connected to outdials of Canada Datapak. I mentioned some addresses which gatewayed into the old Western Union telex system and similar. Telenet saw the article and stunk up the place something awful. They took particular umbrage to the fact that I mentioned that the old PC Pursuit accounts were not blocked out from reaching those international destinations. I also mentioned the numeric addresses for the indials themselves, and told cryptically how 'some hackers' would call into thier local Telenet indial, do 'C address.of.same.indial.in.rotary.hunt.group' and then sit there on the line *and provide a bogus Telenet prompt* to some unfortunate sucker who also dialed in, thus capturing the password of some unsuspecting user. In other words, let us say there are ten lines in a rotary hunt incoming to Telenet (Sprintnet) via ummm ... let's say Chicago-Merrimac office, or Chicago-Irving office. You call in on line one; do 'C address.of.these.outdials'. Since line one is occupied naturally -- by you -- your C request would hunt to line two and there you would sit. Now comes another inbound call and the telco CO parks him on line two, staring you right in the face looking at him. You see him give those carriage returns to get Telenet's attention, and *you* answer him asking for his password. Like a dummy, he types it right in. You say 'sorry, network problems, please disconnect and dial back again.' He hangs up, you hang up and split. Now you have a password. I kid you not. More PC Pursuit passwords and Telenet network passwords were stolen by that gimmick than any other scheme. Telenet finally wised up and put their incoming lines in one hunt group and their outgoing lines (outdials) in another group with a network restriction so users could not connect to the incoming lines. If you try doing 'C a.dialin.somewhere' now the network responds saying the address you have entered is not in service for incoming connections (from persons already on the network). I promised them I would not again publish 'Let Your Fingers do the Walking' so that's the way it has to be. Anyway, try 'C MAIL' with user name PHONES and password PHONES. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:41:07 EST From: Bob Baxter Subject: Substitute for BellSouth's Simon My company is looking for a device that is similar to the Simon unit put out by BellSouth. Basically, the Simon is a combination cellular phone, and personal digital assistant rolled into one. According to the customer service reps, Simon is the only device of its type. Is this correct? If anyone has other information, or telephone numbers to call for information, it would be appreciated. Virtually yours, bobbles@panix.com Bob Baxter p00284@psilink.com ------------------------------ From: cyberoid@u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) Subject: Most Pressing Problems Facing Network Managers and Planners? Date: 3 Feb 1995 19:03:46 GMT Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle What are the two or three most pressing problems facing you now and in the near future? Growth? Access? Interface for controls? For a short report I'm preparing, I'd like to hear from network managers and planners. Thanks. Email is fine. Bob Jacobson Worldesign Inc. ------------------------------ From: PCOHEN@CPVA.SAIC.COM Subject: Video Dial Tone Information Wanted Date: 3 Feb 95 11:31:21 PST Organization: Science Applications Int'l Corp./San Diego I am looking for information on the following topics regarding Video Dial TOne: 1. FCC grants permission for telephone companies to offer video services. 2. FCC begins rulemaking on Telco video programming. 3. 1984 cable communication policy acts restrictions on Telcos providing video programming to subscribers declared unconstitutional. 4. Regional Bell Operating Companies are running trials for video dialtone services. Please send your responses to my email address (pcohen@cpva.saic.com) Thank you! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 16:29:13 EST From: Steve Samler Subject: South American Telecom News Wanted Does anyone know of any sources for S. American/Central America/Mexico telecom/datacom news? Looking for something that might provide three to five stories per day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:32:21 GMT From: Edgar Murillo Montero Subject: ANSI, ITU Information Needed I'm looking for SDH, ATM, Frame Relay Recommendations on ANSI, ITU, etc. Please tell me where can I find these topics. Ing. Edgar Murillo Montero Phone: (506) 287-0446 Of. Desarrollos Telematicos Fax: (506) 257-0514 Radiografica Costarricense S.A. E-Mail: emurillo@sol.racsa.co.cr P.O. Box 54-1000 San Jose Costa Rica, Central America ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 16:33:33 CST From: Steve Bauer Subject: Directory Assistance Vendor Wanted I am looking for a vendor who can provide me with up to date Directory Assistance data for the United States that can reside on a LAN and be accessed by any user. I'm not sure if a CD-ROM that is updated frequently is the way to go or an on line connection with a per request charge. We have about $3,000 per month in Directory Assistance charges. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ From: Tony_Pelliccio@brown.edu (Tony Pelliccio) Subject: NYNEX Does it Again ... Not! Date: 3 Feb 1995 15:56:52 GMT Organization: Brown University -- Providence, Rhode Island USA úÿ I just saw mention in the {Providence Journal Bulletin} for February 3, 1995 that the Rhode Island Public Utilities Commission has ordered NYNEX to stop offering Caller-ID services until a problem with blocking has been rectified. According to the article the problem exists with customers who've requested their lines be permanently blocked. The *67 option is still available and customers who currently have Caller-ID will be able to retain the service. In a related blurb they state that the same problem exists in NYNEX's New York offices. Just another fine example of NYNEX doing what they do best. Tony Pelliccio, KD1NR Box 1908, Prov, RI 02912 Tel. (401) 863-1880 Fax. (401) 863-2269 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Someone else wrote me to say Nynex has now admitted the problem, (ID was being passed anyway, despite blocking) and is working on getting it fixed. They have offered new non-pub phone numbers at no charge (service/installation) to anyone affected who wants it. PAT] ------------------------------ From: sascjt@unx.sas.com (Chris Telesca) Subject: Can Anyone Recommend ExcelL LD Phone Service? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:49:33 GMT Organization: SAS Institute Inc. A friend of mine and her mother are Marketing Reps for Excel LD phone service. They say that they can save me a significant amount of money over AT&T, my current LD carrier. Their examples are the differences in charges for one-minute phone calls. EXCEL has lower flat rates, while AT&T charges more for the first minute, but they virtually are identical for longer calls (avg. time: 10 minutes). EXCEL also charges a $3.00 flat fee for their service. Of course, since this is a MLM operation, my friend and her mother will be collecting commissions on my phone bill. So it seems that what I'm really being asked to do is switch over to a service that is no better (and hopefully no worse) than the one I'm using now, that may or may not save me money, but will shift some of the money that used to go to Southern Bell and AT&T over to my friend and her mother. Not that I have anything against doing that, but does anyone without a financial stake in EXCEL have any real-life experiences with this service? Is their any real savings over AT&T? How does their customer service deal with billing problems, wrong numbers, unauthorized people using your calling card number, etc? Chris Telesca Associate Photographer (919)677-8001 x7489 SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC 27513 / sascjt@unx.sas.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 10:28 EST From: Lars Nohling Subject: Caller ID to TouchTones I am looking for a device that will taking the incoming Caller-ID number and enter it as touch tones to the answering modem before connecting the incoming call. I want to use it for routing calls based on the originating location. Any ideas? lnohling@mcimail.com Lars Nohling Business Systems Solutions, inc. ------------------------------ From: fishel@technet.sg Subject: Memorex PBX Help Needed Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 19:00:52 WST Organization: ATS Technologies (Singapore) Hi there! Could you help me with small problem we having here? We are using Memorex's Telex 1001VS PBX system at office (Phone is 2021L). It is 6 wires. So here are a few questions I'd like to ask: 1. Why is it having 6 wires (Not 4 wires as usual PBX)? 2. Is there any 3rd party suppliers who could supply compatible hardware and software to this PBX. (Voice mail, OS, PCB...)? 3. Is there network address for Memorex Telex company (www, ftp,...)? Thank you in advance for any information. Sergei Fishel ------------------------------ From: dolomond@micronav.ca (Dave Dolomond) Subject: RS-422 - How Far at 1KHz? Date: 3 Feb 1995 12:05:16 -0400 Organization: MII Does anyone have any particular experience with RS-422? I need to know how far I can transmit a 1KHz signal using an RS-422 link with 24 AWG shielded, twisted pair cable burried underground? Any help would be appreciated !!! e-mail if you can... Thanks in advance, Dave D. (dolomond@micronav.ca) ------------------------------ From: John Landwehr Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 09:45:09 -0800 Subject: ATT 500 Number Working in PacBell-land Today Just FYI, ATT activated my 500 number Jan 27. On Jan 31, PacBell still had no clue what 500 numbers were. I called repair and they thought I was an idiot and actually hung up on me. I was going to call the PUC today, but guess what -- my 500 numbers works. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That's been my experience with Ameritech recently where 500 numbers are concerned. They just assume I am a crank caller and they humor me. AT&T says agreements were put in place with all telcos on January 28 and that 500 service is working just fine everywhere and that instead of bothering them further with it I should contact the Commission. I call the Commission, they say they have no record of any agreements being reached between AT&T and Ameritech to unblock 500. Like yourself, thus far I have found no one at Ameritech who knows anything about 500. Finally yesterday someone at AT&T told me the 'specialist' would look into it, and I had to tell her digit by digit exactly what number I was dialing and where I was calling from. The 'specialist' has not called back. Neither has anyone from the Illinois Commerce Commission. I told AT&T the easiest way was to simply disconnect my 500 number and get back to me with it sometime in the future if/when they got their act together. I can't keep bothering with it. PAT] ------------------------------ From: cftvgy1@teleport.com (timothy f. cooper) Subject: OKI 1150 Cell Phone Help Wanted Date: 4 Feb 1995 00:12:09 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 I have recently purchased an OKI 1150 cell phone from my neighbor (moved away) and he gave me all the goodies like batteries, charger, manual and such. He told me his number was disconnected and I would need to get my own activation. What he didnt tell me is that he locked the phone with several security codes! Will I be able to erase this and start witha fresh phone? wWat are the ports for? (Programming i know). Can I get the software and cable to do it myself? Who sells this equipment? Will a dealer be able to reprogram the security codes? Help! ------------------------------ From: yhase@comm.mpt.go.jp (Yoji Hasegawa) Subject: Very High Speed Wireless Communication Organization: Computer Communications Div, MPT Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:39:45 GMT Does anyone know an experiment of very high speed (155Mbps or more?) communication by wireless measures anywhere in Germany? Please send any info by e-mail. Yoji yhase@comm.mpt.go.jp ------------------------------ From: britos@scf.usc.edu Subject: Telstra (Australia) Information Wanted Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 16:50:08 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Looking for information on this company. Stock Analysis. Assets. Prognosis. History. etc ... ------------------------------ From: tjoconnell@aol.com (TJOconnell) Subject: ACD/Call Router Information Wanted Date: 3 Feb 1995 20:02:40 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: tjoconnell@aol.com (TJOconnell) We are looking for a resource for general information on ACD/Call Center technology. This could include an Overview Book on different systems, emerging technologies, or trends. Do you have any information or know of any sources that would help us "figure out" today's Call Centers? Please email: tjoconnell@aol.com Thanks, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:19:53 +0000 From: dermot@nt.com Subject: Seeking Telecom Library Reply-To: dermot@ngals022.nt.com Organization: Northern Telecom, GALWAY, Ireland I'd be very grateful if anyone could forward me a phone number and fax number (non 1-800 please) for Telecom Library, Inc in New York. Please use the correct email address in the sig. Thanks for the help. Dermot Wall Dermot.Wall.dermot@nt.com Northern Telecom Phone: +353 91 733 334 Mervue Industrial Estate Fax : +353 91 756 050 Galway ESN : 570 3334 Ireland ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Radio Station Transmission Lines From: drharry!aboritz@uunet.uu.net (Alan Boritz) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 95 20:32:39 EST Organization: Harry's Place - Mahwah NJ - +1 201 934 0861 sterger@PrimeNet.Com (Alan Sterger) writes: >> I am working for a small radio station that is now using two 8kHz >> lines to feed four tansmitters (AM). On one line we feed three >> transmitters since they are for buildings next to each other; the other >> line is for a building some 150 blocks from here. > Are STLs out of the question? They are in New York City. Every allocated channel is occupied, though in a very inefficient manner. While it may be possible to free up at least one wide-band channel by forcing at least one of the larger FM stations to stop hogging more channels than they really should ;), the cost to accomplish it, and of real estate for microwave antennas, and for equipment expense, would make it difficult for even the largest broadcasters in the country. New York City is one peculiar congested place where private (non-switched) circuits can be cheaper than non-tariff'd alternative services. It's also probably the only place in the US that has a *vertical* mileage tariff for some telco circuits. ------------------------------ From: jdaniel@netcom.com (Jack Daniel) Subject: Re: 7/8ths Heliax Sources Needed Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 13:25:23 GMT In article md@pstc3.pstc.brown.edu (Michael P. Deignan) writes: > I need to find 350' of 7/8ths 50ohm heliax for an RF application I'm > working on. Cheapest I've been able to find is $4.50/ft. Anyone have > other source suggestions? Call Trilogy Cable at 1-800-874-5649. Ask for Larry Lindner and 1" low loss 50 ohm cable. Best buy in the world on NEW high spec cable. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 06:20:08 -0800 From: mfletch@ix.netcom.com (Mark Fletcher) Subject: Re: 7/8ths Heliax Sources Needed In V15 #73 md@pstc3.pstc.brown.edu (Michael P. Deignan) writes: > I need to find 350' of 7/8ths 50ohm heliax for an RF application I'm > working on. Cheapest I've been able to find is $4.50/ft. Anyone have > other source suggestions? I find the best cable is manufactured by: Andrew 10500 W. 153rd Street Orland Park, IL 60462 1-800-255-1479 1-800-349-5444 FAX Another supplier is: Times Microwave Systems PO Bos 5039 Wallingford, CT 06492 800-TMS-COAX or 203-949-8400 203-949-8423 FAX Either will provide you with a list of distributors in your area. Also consider subcribing to Mobile Radio Technology (MRT). The subscription is free for qualified individuals. MRT PO BOx 12937 Overland Park, KS 66282-2937 Mark Fletcher ------------------------------ From: bkron@netcom.com (BUBEYE!) Subject: Re: Who Are the Telephone Pioneers of America? Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 02:02:28 GMT Jonathan Prince writes: > [What is] the 'Telephone Pioneers of America'? > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: ... the Telephone Pioneers of America > is an outstanding organization with chapters at telcos all over the USA ... Another interesting fact is that Telephone Pioneers of America is the largest philanthropic organization in the world. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I did not know they were the largest; but their generosity is well known. PAT] ------------------------------ From: PWWL38A@prodigy.com (John Skalko) Subject: Re: Who Are the Telephone Pioneers of America? Date: 4 Feb 1995 01:26:58 GMT Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY The length of service restriction has been removed -- at least at AT&T. No matter what your service length, you can join in this volunteer action organization. And, thanks for your succinct and lucid explanation of TPA. JJS [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You and the other Pioneers are quite welcome. I received some mail from a couple other Pioneers who said the same thing as yourself regards service length, that there is no longer a twenty year requirement. Apparently it was for a short time reduced to seventeen years, now there is no restriction at all. Also I was corrected on the year of their founding: it was 1911. In that year, several of the employees of AT&T who had -- even then! -- been with the company for twenty years or more -- a few had worked with Thomas Watson himself -- decided to form a service organization. Their first projects as an organization were with deaf people, and to this day hearing impaired people receive much of their time and resources. Alex Bell was deaf, you know, and a teacher of deaf people. Have a nice weekend everyone! Very cold and snowy here, and the cold will linger until Monday at least we are told. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V15 #78 *****************************