TELECOM Digest Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:06:00 CST Volume 15 : Issue 123 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Summit Roundtable (Summit '94) Looking For Directory CD ROMs (Sven Echternach) 800 Numbers: Media, and Real Estate (Judith Oppenheimer) Re: MCI Slams Again (John Higdon) Re: Saying Hello in Other Languages - Summary (TELECOM Digest Editor) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 500-677-1616 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. ************************************************************************ * * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent- * * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************ * Additionally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: summit@ix.netcom.com (Summit '94) Subject: Summit Roundtable Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:45:57 GMT Organization: Netcom Enterprise Management Summit 95 123 Townsend Street San Francisco, CA 94107 TEL: 415.512.0801 FAX: 415.512.1325 Email: emiinc@mcimail.com The Enterprise Management Summit will conduct a roundtable panel discussion titled Trends in Enterprise Management on March 29 from 8-11am at the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas. This Summit Roundtable is sponsored by {Network World Magazine}. This is a free event and seating is limited to 100, so register early. The roundtable panelists will discuss changes that they envision within the industry in 1995 and in the next five years. Topic areas include network and systems management, and the management of distributed applications and databases, as well as the future of such management standards as SNMP, DMI, CORBA, DCE, IPng; managing emerging technologies such as ATM, switched networks, videoconferencing, artificial intelligence, network automation, messaging, etc. We will also explore the future of enterprise management platforms. Chairing the panel will be Rick Sturm of US WEST Technologies. Rick Sturm is also President of the OpenView Forum, and is Conference Chair for the Enterprise Management Summit. Other panelists include: Jeff Case - SNMP Research David Passmore - Decisis Asheem Chandna - Coronet Systems, Inc. Charlie Robbins - Aberdeen Group Bob Emerson - Hewlett-Packard Chris Thomas - Intel Corporation Joaquin Gonzalez - META Group Beth Adams - Network Management Forum Dave Mahler - Remedy Corporation Mark Fulgham - Boeing Computer Services John McConnell - McConnell Consulting Please fill out the registration form below and fax it to 415.512.1325, or return via E-mail. Please indicate any questions that you would like the panel to answer either live or as part of the {Network World} article which will appear in an April issue. We look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas as we continue to scale the Enterprise Management Summit. Please provide the following information to register or to receive information about our Summit 95, the annual enterprise management conference to be held October 23-27 at the Dallas Infomart. Name: Company: Street: Mail Stop: City Phone: Fax: EMail: Questions for Panel: ------------------------------ From: sec@sec.de (Sven) Subject: Looking for Directory CD ROMs Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:37:21 CET I'm looking for a CD ROM with US' residential phone numbers that would also allow reverse lookups (e.g. finding a name acccording to a phone number). Does anyone have experience with any of the following, or maybe other, CD ROMS? PhoneDisc Reverse PhoneDisc Power Finder Haynes CrissCross Directory If anyone has a cheap source for those CD ROM's, please let me know too. Sven Echternach sec@sec.de ------------------------------ From: Judith Oppenheimer Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:02:33 -0500 Subject: 800 Numbers: Media, and Real Estate Pat, it's clear, that by employment and occupation, the policy shapers and decision makers regarding all telephone numbering plans focus on the mechanical and engineering aspects of telecom. Valid aspects, to be sure. But limited. These people are employed by the real estate moguls of telecom -- the carriers. For whom this mechanical and engineering (operational) focus preserves their territorial exclusivity. So the ITU, INC. and other participants in these processes, are by design quite removed from the multi-disciplinary, non-telecom market realities of 800 numbers. Two Market Realities: Media, and Real Estate. 800 numbers have solid media characteristics. They contain content and attract targeted audiences. 800 COLLECT attracts collect callers. 800 FLOWERS attracts flower buyers. Etc. This raises very interesting questions regarding foreign ownership of U.S. media, and is just one of the issues that should be studied regarding the proposed International Freephone service. Regarding 888, we are told there is an impending shortage of 800 numbers. I've asked some my associates in both telecom and marketing to respond to your most recent rebuttal in our thread. This, from the president of a reseller company, who discusses the real estate characteristics of 800 numbers. (I post for him as he's not online.) "Why should 800 telephone numbers not be traded in the open market? Portability opened the door. It is time to complete the ownership issue. There will be ample supply of 800 numbers if current holders can sell numbers. All will be served by the simplicity of one toll-free platform. All will be served by the elegance of the free market deciding who is the best user of an 800 telephone number." (My note: Existing market forces bear this out. Most high profile branded numbers were acquired from the private sector, not assigned by carriers.) If anyone's interested, just email me for a copy of a news article from 1994 where MCI brags about how it "acquired" 1 800 HARVEYS for Harveys Casino when it picked up the account. 1 800 THE MOST was acquired from the private sector. So was 1 800 COMPARE. Indeed, the big three carriers are some of the most active buyers of numbers, both for their own brand and media purposes, and as incentives for their customers. The problem is, as the original monopolistic real estate moguls, they are adamently opposed to private sector activity in this very open market that portability created.) The reseller goes on, "The situation we face currently with 800 telephone numbers is comparable to the homesteading of territory. In the early days of America's development, land was given freely to anyone who would care for it and develop it, whereafter, the land became their property. 800 numbers are no different. People develop 800 numbers by advertising and placing services behind those numbers. Property rights naturally instill themselves within the 800 numbers. As history has proven, homesteading of resources such as land or a telephone number, serves a valuable purpose. We have reached the time where more territory does not need to be freely distributed (ie, 888.) Instead, the existing 800 number ownership should be acknowledged." So, now there's media and real estate. Clearly, the single-disciplinary operational standard approach cannot possibly address the characteristics, nor the ramifications, of media and real estate market necessities. As other elements (trademark, etc.) are sent to me, I'll be glad to share them with the digest. J. Oppenheimer, Producer@Pipeline.com Interactive CallBrand(TM) ------------------------------ Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 07:57:42 -0800 From: john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) Subject: Re: MCI Slams Again Jeff Jelinek writes: > I seriously doubt that MCI intends to change an individual PIC for the > sole purpose of picking up some LD revenue for a month or so. Big > deal. If you multiply that "month of revenue" by many thousands of times, it begins to add up in a big hurry. Oddly enough, some of those "slamees" stay with their slam-imposed carrier. > Why would they risk the repercussions of an unauthorized PIC change? Because there are none. There are no fines or other liabilities. And the carrier is entitled to the money for the calls you made. The worst that happens is that the customer is switched back to some other carrier. Remember, there are two sides to legislation: statute and enforcement. In the telecommunications industry, there is painfully little of the latter. > Of the hundreds of thousands of PIC changes that take place each month, > some of the customer service people will make a mistake. Uh huh. And considering that a slam to MCI is a keystroke away, that "mistake" is very frequently made. This is not rocket science; there is no reason, other than intent, for any customer's PIC to be changed. > I have not heard of this type of intentional action for many years. While I am not in the long distance business, I am personally acquainted with people who do run a long distance company. Slamming is a way of life. It is a standard exercise in the course of doing business. I advise everyone to make sure that LEC accounts are protected against carrier-instigated PIC changes. A side benefit of doing this is that you stop all of the telephone solicitation from long distance companies. Part of the mechanism of the hard-sell is to "switch" you on the spot. Notice you are never given an opportunity to think about it, nor are you given any hard information upon which to make an educated decision. If your account is locked against carrier tampering, the solicitor moves right along to the next victim; you don't even get a call. I had one line that constantly rang in the evening with MCI and others hawking "the big savings". No other lines in the house, and I have many, got those calls. Associates suggested that I confirm the phone's PIC-change status. Sure enough, it was the only one in the house that for some reason had not been protected against unauthorized PIC selection. With that situation corrected, the junk calls from telemarketers have come to a halt. John Higdon | P.O. Box 7648 | +1 408 264 4115 | FAX: john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | +1 500 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407 ------------------------------ From: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Digest Editor) Subject: Re: Saying Hello in Other Languages - Summary Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:50:00 CST We had several good responses to the 'Saying Hello in Other Languages article the other day, including a lengthy response from Asia_Link, a Fido news group which had originally appeared in the {Los Angeles Times}. We'll start with that peice, then go on to some of the responses sent by individual readers, quite a few of whom wrote from the .nl domain. From: lester.hiraki@canrem.com (Lester Hiraki) Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) In response to a request in Volume 15, Issue 118, Message 3 of 19, I am submitting the following article. The content of the article might contain some of the answers to the enquiries. > My uncle is 85 years old, and wants desperately to see a list of how > people in other countries answer the phone. The following swiped from Fido's Asian_Link and reposted here for general interest about general telephone usage and customs worldwide: World Telephone Cultures {Los Angeles Times} (Jul 26) CULTURE: Arabs greet each other with profuse politeness. The French want to know who's calling. Italians have love affairs with the machine. Alexander Graham Bell spoke through a wire to his colleague Thomas Watson in 1876. "Come here," he said, the first command uttered on a telephone. Oh, what Mr. Bell wrought. Around the world, different cultures have developed characteristic phone manners since Bell's day. No people open a call with more effusive hospitality than the Arabs. Whatever the subject of the conversation, it begins with what seems like five minutes of generally meaningless but absolutely essential greetings. A ringing phone is answered: "May your morning be good." "May your morning be full of light," the caller responds. "Praise God, your voice is welcome." "Welcome, welcome." "How are you?" "Praise God." "Praise God." "What news? Are you well? Your family well?" "Praise God. How are you?" "All is well. All is well. Welcome. Welcome." Only then might the reason for the call be mentioned. And the goodbys will take almost as long and are again excruciatingly polite. Compared to the Arab world, responses elsewhere are the soul of brevity: Britons and Americans generally say "Hello," although the latter sometimes simply say "Yes," and if they're in business or the military they may just answer with their surnames: "Smith." The French answer their phones with the familiar "Allo," and they often add their name and the phrase "Qui est a l"appareil?" that is, "Who is on the phone?" In a number of countries, calls are answered with a touch of suspicion or curiosity, a reluctance to talk until it's clear who the caller is. Italians answer "Pronto," or "Ready," and then it's the caller who demands "Chi parla?"--"Who's speaking?" -- assuming the right to know the identity of the person at the other end. Germans tend to answer the phone by barking their last names: "Schmidt" or "Mueller," even the women -- and even if they have titles, like Herr Doktor, which in other circumstances hey would insist upon. In Copenhagen, Danes will answer with both first and last names, even women: "Karen Andersen." In Spain, the response to a ringing telephone is: "Diga," or "Speak." "Diga" is also a common response in Mexico, but Mexicans usually answer "Bueno," meaning "Good" or "Well." Like the Italians, the Mexicans will demand: "Where am I calling?" And if they have the wrong number, they'll indignantly hang up, sometimes with a curse, as if it were the respondent's fault. Because of a cultural tendency to speak cautiously with strangers, callers must clearly identify themselves and state their purpose. Even then, the respondent may become vague and evasive. úÿ "Is this the Mexico State Justice Department?" a caller might ask. "I wouldn't know what to tell you," is the answer. Business people and government officials commonly refuse to speak to strangers on the phone even if it concerns simple inquiries like "Where can I buy one of your vacuum cleaners?" The train system won't divulge ticket fares or schedules on the phone; you must go to the station and ask in person. In Brazil, after slowly and patiently dialing a number, if you are lucky enough to get an answer, the respondent will say: "Who's talking?" not to be rude but to make sure the right number has been reached. Goodbys are elaborate, as if in person: "A hug" is a frequent sign-off, even to end formal business calls. "A kiss" is more casual, with someone you know personally. And the response in both cases is "Outro," "Another." Like American teen-agers, many cultures have love affairs with the phone, none more than the Italians. They talk endlessly with relatives, friends and schoolmates. The telephone call has replaced formal letters of invitation, congratulations and condolences. As almost everywhere else, the cellular phone, called a telefonino in Italy, has become a popular status symbol, used widely and indiscrimin- ately. Telefonini have recently been barred from parliamentary sessions, for instance. In Germany the telephone is hardly ubiquitous. You can get an unlisted number at no extra charge, and information operators will not indicate the fact to callers -- in effect denying your existence. One wrinkle that arrived under Germany's liberal immigration policy: the installation of illegal phone booths where foreigners can call home without paying long-distance tariffs. Officials of cellular-phone networks have countered the trend by blocking all calls going to Pakistan, Togo, Gambia and Vietnam. In Russia, like most things, phone use is affected by the growing gap between rich and poor, new and old, foreign and Russian. So mobile phones are big hits among the rich, but most Russians have no phones at all. Thus ads for apartment rentals specify "telephone" with the same pride as "garbage chute" or "closet." For those with phones, the answer to a ring is the French "Allo," which can be pronounced to reflect wide degrees of happiness or annoyance. Also popular are the curt "Da," or "Yes," and "Slushayu vas," or "I am listening to you." Because of the history of KGB taps, Russians are still careful of being overheard, often using the phrase, "It's not telephone conversation," to warn a caller to be discreet. Often in Moscow an alien conversation will break into yours, and sometimes, according to Muscovites, you can't help listening. These aural glimpses show a Russian life that is never the relaxed, gossipy "reach out and touch someone" conversations so typical in America. Instead they have some urgent goal -- such as arranging a meeting or a deal. "The reason for this urgency is the poor quality," says a Moscow resident. "Pay phones are unreliable and the caller wants to get his message across before the connection breaks down." In closed Arab societies, the telephone is a means of contact for those forbidden to see each other in person. A woman will call random numbers asking for "Mohammed," and when she finds a voice she likes, will strike up a conversation. In India, you wait up to seven years for a phone -- so when the connection is finally made it often prompts a neighborhood party. The euphoria ends about a month later when the first bill arrives and the subscribers realize how much it costs. In the Indian middle-class home, the telephone occupies the place of honor, often atop its special table, and is usually kept locked to prevent neighbors from making calls. But in the countryside where 70% of Indians live, phones are still a rarity: In some cases there is not a single phone in a village. In Southeast Asia, almost everyone uses a version of "Hello" to answer the phone. Hong Kong Chinese say, "Wei." In countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia, with a shortage of phone lines and a two-year waiting list, cellular phones are prized, but expensive -- running $500 to $1,000 in Singapore and twice that elsewhere. Bangkok's most popular radio program is a call-in show with phoners talking while stuck in the city's infamous traffic. Many posh restaurants have signs saying, "No Handphones," because people are fed up with the guy at the next table shouting into a phone. Some cinemas show trailers indicating that it is rude to talk on the phone during the movie. In Japan, the person answering will customarily say, "Moshi moshi," the equivalent of "Hello," or perhaps "Hai," that is, "Yes." If he or she has the right connection, the caller may say something like "Osewa ni natte imasu," or "I am indebted to you for your kindness." Sometimes people bow over a phone, although the other party cannot see the bow. Many older Japanese, who never saw phones until the era of the 1964 Tokyo Olympics, continue to use ceremonial phrases and bows over the telephone -- as if it weren't there. The standard goodby is "Ja, mata" -- "See you later" -- with the word "Sayonara" reserved only for occasions of a long or final parting. In many Third World countries it definitely helps to know an operator. The Indian writer Khushwant Singh remembers trying to place a call from New Delhi to Lahore in neighboring Pakistan -- when services were notoriously bad. After hours of trying, Singh was contacted by the international operator who suggested that she had relatives in Pakistan who had wanted to visit India but needed visas. Being a member of Parliament, she said, he might come up with the necessary stamps. Singh accepted the deal and within three minutes his connection was through. ---------------- From: 4sam3@qlink.queensu.ca (Scott Montague) En francais, nous disons "Allo?" when answering the phone. Scott From: Kimmo Ketolainen Most Finns answer to the phone with their name. Firstname, surname or full name. Some few people say "haloo" but I haven't heard that much. Some people, mostly older people, answer by saying the phone number. Kimmo. --------------- From: Alex@Worldaccess.NL (Alex) In Holland we pick up with either "Hallo" (means hello in Dutch). Or more common is to pick up with "Met ", which basicly means With For your intrest, in Zimbabwe they tend to pick up most of the times with their number, like ... "602809 Hello?" Greetings, Alex Alex@Worldaccess.NL, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands ---------------- From: jean@xs4all.nl (Jean B Sarrazin) There is saying "Hello" and there's answering the phone. In many languages, this does not necessarily coincide ... here are a few for the languages I know: Language Hello Answer phone French Bonjour Allo Spanish Hola Digame German Guten Tag (Your last name) + Guten Tag (optional) Dutch Dag Met (first and/or last name), Goede (morgen-morning, middag, PM or avond, evening) Jean B. Sarrazin Ekkosys Communications BV Sarphatipark 24-1 1072 PB Amsterdam, The Netherlands Telephone : +31-20-676-7304 Fax : +31-20-676-9907 Compuserve : 72077,1366 Internet : jean@xs4all.nl ------------------- From: A.Meerwijk@research.ptt.nl (Arthur Meerwijk) Here in The netherlands we answer the phone with our name, so it would be something like: Good morning, this is Arthur. Although, literally tanslated I say: "Good morning, with arthur" where "with" indicates the other end is "connected _with_ arthur" But it all depends on the level of politeness you include. In any case, one alwyas says one's name when picking up a phone. The most common one being: "With Arthur Meerwijk" Cheers, arthur ---------------- From: koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl (Koos van den Hout) Of course there's the way American persons answer the phone : "Hello." (Sorry, couldn't resist. This may seem perfectly normal to an American but for someone who's used to other greetings it can be confusing.) In the Netherlands it's normal to greet with your own name. I say "Met Koos van den Hout" which does translate roughly to "This is Koos van den Hout" Companies mostly answer with a company name in the Netherlands: "Hogeschool Utrecht" ------------------ From: marya@oitunix.oit.umass.edu (Jeffrey William McKeough) Here's a few off the top of my head: Japan: moshi moshi Spain: digame Mexico: bueno Israel: shalom -------------------- From: Giray Pultar In Turkey/in Turkish, we typically answer the phone by saying 'alo'. The pronounciation is more like allo, but is spelled "alo". I believe it comes from French. Giray -------------------- From: ph18@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Paul Houle) In Japan, people answer the phone "Moshi Moshi". -------------------- From: bud@kentrox.com (Bud Couch) Can't vouch for the spelling, but the Japanese answer with "mushi-mushi", and in Korean, it's "yobosayoh". Know this because thirty years ago, I used to have to troubleshoot a US Army- US Air Force - Korean Air Defense - Japan Self-Defense Force comm net, and listen to them yell this into the phone, as if they could get loud enough to hear it from Pyongtaek to Honshu. Bud Couch - ADC Kentrox |When correctly viewed, everything is lewd.| bud@kentrox.com (192.228.59.2) | -Tom Lehrer | ---------------------- From: Dan Cromer <19016007@SBACVM.SBAC.EDU> Organization: School Board of Alachua County, Gainesville, Florida Pat, How do we answer the phone in the USA? It depends on who answers! You may hear Hello, or Yeah, or "Cromer residence, Dan speaking" (how I was brought up to answer, in a simpler time when front doors were hardly ever locked). In Japan they commonly say "moshi moshi" which can sound like "mush mush", with the words repeated rapidly. I've heard Spanish speakers use ola, pronounce Oh lah, with the accent on the Oh. Daniel H. Cromer, Jr. Director, Information Resources School Board of Alachua County, Gainesville, Florida 19016007@sbacvm.sbac.edu 904-955-7509 FAX 904-955-6700 ---------------------- From: "Van R. Hutchinson" <0005493896@mcimail.com> In Peru, my family members answer, "halo" pronounced, AL'-oh. More formal greetings include "Buenos dias" and "Buenas tardes" In Mexico, I've heard "Bueno". ---------------------- From: robhall@hk.super.net In Chinese (at least Cantonese and Mandarin dialects), telephones are answered "Wei?", which roughly translates to 'Yes?' In Japanese, the telephone is answered "Mushi Mushi". I'll be interested to see the results of your compilation! Rob Hall Hong Kong -------------------------- From: rishab@dxm.ernet.in (Rishab Aiyer Ghosh) In India almost everyone says Hello on the phone, even if they're in a village in Rajasthan and proceed to converse in Marwari. Accents and pronunciation varies. Rishab Aiyer Ghosh rishab@dxm.ernet.in rishab@arbornet.org Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks to all who participated by sending in responses. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V15 #123 ****************************** ÿ@FROM :telecom@delta.eecs.nwu.edu Message-ID: <9502282106.AA15952@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> From telecom-request@delta.eecs.nwu.edu Wed Mar 1 01:46:44 1995 Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu (delta.eecs.nwu.edu [129.105.5.103]) by coyote.channel1.com (8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id BAA02082; Wed, 1 Mar 1995 01:46:44 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0-proxy) id AA15963; Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:06:08 CST Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0-proxy) id AA15952; Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:06:04 CST Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:06:04 CST From: telecom@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Digest (Patrick Townson)) Message-Id: <9502282106.AA15952@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V15 #123 TELECOM Digest Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:06:00 CST Volume 15 : Issue 123 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Summit Roundtable (Summit '94) Looking For Directory CD ROMs (Sven Echternach) 800 Numbers: Media, and Real Estate (Judith Oppenheimer) Re: MCI Slams Again (John Higdon) Re: Saying Hello in Other Languages - Summary (TELECOM Digest Editor) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: 9457-D Niles Center Road Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 500-677-1616 Fax: 708-329-0572 ** Article submission address only: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu ** Our archives are located at lcs.mit.edu and are available by using anonymous ftp. The archives can also be accessed using our email information service. For a copy of a helpful file explaining how to use the information service, just ask. ************************************************************************ * * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent- * * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************ * Additionally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: summit@ix.netcom.com (Summit '94) Subject: Summit Roundtable Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:45:57 GMT Organization: Netcom Enterprise Management Summit 95 123 Townsend Street San Francisco, CA 94107 TEL: 415.512.0801 FAX: 415.512.1325 Email: emiinc@mcimail.com The Enterprise Management Summit will conduct a roundtable panel discussion titled Trends in Enterprise Management on March 29 from 8-11am at the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas. This Summit Roundtable is sponsored by {Network World Magazine}. This is a free event and seating is limited to 100, so register early. The roundtable panelists will discuss changes that they envision within the industry in 1995 and in the next five years. Topic areas include network and systems management, and the management of distributed applications and databases, as well as the future of such management standards as SNMP, DMI, CORBA, DCE, IPng; managing emerging technologies such as ATM, switched networks, videoconferencing, artificial intelligence, network automation, messaging, etc. We will also explore the future of enterprise management platforms. Chairing the panel will be Rick Sturm of US WEST Technologies. Rick Sturm is also President of the OpenView Forum, and is Conference Chair for the Enterprise Management Summit. Other panelists include: Jeff Case - SNMP Research David Passmore - Decisis Asheem Chandna - Coronet Systems, Inc. Charlie Robbins - Aberdeen Group Bob Emerson - Hewlett-Packard Chris Thomas - Intel Corporation Joaquin Gonzalez - META Group Beth Adams - Network Management Forum Dave Mahler - Remedy Corporation Mark Fulgham - Boeing Computer Services John McConnell - McConnell Consulting Please fill out the registration form below and fax it to 415.512.1325, or return via E-mail. Please indicate any questions that you would like the panel to answer either live or as part of the {Network World} article which will appear in an April issue. We look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas as we continue to scale the Enterprise Management Summit. Please provide the following information to register or to receive information about our Summit 95, the annual enterprise management conference to be held October 23-27 at the Dallas Infomart. Name: Company: Street: Mail Stop: City Phone: Fax: EMail: Questions for Panel: ------------------------------ From: sec@sec.de (Sven) Subject: Looking for Directory CD ROMs Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:37:21 CET I'm looking for a CD ROM with US' residential phone numbers that would also allow reverse lookups (e.g. finding a name acccording to a phone number). Does anyone have experience with any of the following, or maybe other, CD ROMS? PhoneDisc Reverse PhoneDisc Power Finder Haynes CrissCross Directory If anyone has a cheap source for those CD ROM's, please let me know too. Sven Echternach sec@sec.de ------------------------------ From: Judith Oppenheimer Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:02:33 -0500 Subject: 800 Numbers: Media, and Real Estate Pat, it's clear, that by employment and occupation, the policy shapers and decision makers regarding all telephone numbering plans focus on the mechanical and engineering aspects of telecom. Valid aspects, to be sure. But limited. These people are employed by the real estate moguls of telecom -- the carriers. For whom this mechanical and engineering (operational) focus preserves their territorial exclusivity. So the ITU, INC. and other participants in these processes, are by design quite removed from the multi-disciplinary, non-telecom market realities of 800 numbers. Two Market Realities: Media, and Real Estate. 800 numbers have solid media characteristics. They contain content and attract targeted audiences. 800 COLLECT attracts collect callers. 800 FLOWERS attracts flower buyers. Etc. This raises very interesting questions regarding foreign ownership of U.S. media, and is just one of the issues that should be studied regarding the proposed International Freephone service. Regarding 888, we are told there is an impending shortage of 800 numbers. I've asked some my associates in both telecom and marketing to respond to your most recent rebuttal in our thread. This, from the president of a reseller company, who discusses the real estate characteristics of 800 numbers. (I post for him as he's not online.) "Why should 800 telephone numbers not be traded in the open market? Portability opened the door. It is time to complete the ownership issue. There will be ample supply of 800 numbers if current holders can sell numbers. All will be served by the simplicity of one toll-free platform. All will be served by the elegance of the free market deciding who is the best user of an 800 telephone number." (My note: Existing market forces bear this out. Most high profile branded numbers were acquired from the private sector, not assigned by carriers.) If anyone's interested, just email me for a copy of a news article from 1994 where MCI brags about how it "acquired" 1 800 HARVEYS for Harveys Casino when it picked up the account. 1 800 THE MOST was acquired from the private sector. So was 1 800 COMPARE. Indeed, the big three carriers are some of the most active buyers of numbers, both for their own brand and media purposes, and as incentives for their customers. The problem is, as the original monopolistic real estate moguls, they are adamently opposed to private sector activity in this very open market that portability created.) The reseller goes on, "The situation we face currently with 800 telephone numbers is comparable to the homesteading of territory. In the early days of America's development, land was given freely to anyone who would care for it and develop it, whereafter, the land became their property. 800 numbers are no different. People develop 800 numbers by advertising and placing services behind those numbers. Property rights naturally instill themselves within the 800 numbers. As history has proven, homesteading of resources such as land or a telephone number, serves a valuable purpose. We have reached the time where more territory does not need to be freely distributed (ie, 888.) Instead, the existing 800 number ownership should be acknowledged." So, now there's media and real estate. Clearly, the single-disciplinary operational standard approach cannot possibly address the characteristics, nor the ramifications, of media and real estate market necessities. As other elements (trademark, etc.) are sent to me, I'll be glad to share them with the digest. J. Oppenheimer, Producer@Pipeline.com Interactive CallBrand(TM) ------------------------------ Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 07:57:42 -0800 From: john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) Subject: Re: MCI Slams Again Jeff Jelinek writes: > I seriously doubt that MCI intends to change an individual PIC for the > sole purpose of picking up some LD revenue for a month or so. Big > deal. If you multiply that "month of revenue" by many thousands of times, it begins to add up in a big hurry. Oddly enough, some of those "slamees" stay with their slam-imposed carrier. > Why would they risk the repercussions of an unauthorized PIC change? Because there are none. There are no fines or other liabilities. And the carrier is entitled to the money for the calls you made. The worst that happens is that the customer is switched back to some other carrier. Remember, there are two sides to legislation: statute and enforcement. In the telecommunications industry, there is painfully little of the latter. > Of the hundreds of thousands of PIC changes that take place each month, > some of the customer service people will make a mistake. Uh huh. And considering that a slam to MCI is a keystroke away, that "mistake" is very frequently made. This is not rocket science; there is no reason, other than intent, for any customer's PIC to be changed. > I have not heard of this type of intentional action for many years. While I am not in the long distance business, I am personally acquainted with people who do run a long distance company. Slamming is a way of life. It is a standard exercise in the course of doing business. I advise everyone to make sure that LEC accounts are protected against carrier-instigated PIC changes. A side benefit of doing this is that you stop all of the telephone solicitation from long distance companies. Part of the mechanism of the hard-sell is to "switch" you on the spot. Notice you are never given an opportunity to think about it, nor are you given any hard information upon which to make an educated decision. If your account is locked against carrier tampering, the solicitor moves right along to the next victim; you don't even get a call. I had one line that constantly rang in the evening with MCI and others hawking "the big savings". No other lines in the house, and I have many, got those calls. Associates suggested that I confirm the phone's PIC-change status. Sure enough, it was the only one in the house that for some reason had not been protected against unauthorized PIC selection. With that situation corrected, the junk calls from telemarketers have come to a halt. John Higdon | P.O. Box 7648 | +1 408 264 4115 | FAX: john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | +1 500 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407 ------------------------------ From: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Digest Editor) Subject: Re: Saying Hello in Other Languages - Summary Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:50:00 CST We had several good responses to the 'Saying Hello in Other Languages article the other day, including a lengthy response from Asia_Link, a Fido news group which had originally appeared in the {Los Angeles Times}. We'll start with that peice, then go on to some of the responses sent by individual readers, quite a few of whom wrote from the .nl domain. From: lester.hiraki@canrem.com (Lester Hiraki) Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) In response to a request in Volume 15, Issue 118, Message 3 of 19, I am submitting the following article. The content of the article might contain some of the answers to the enquiries. > My uncle is 85 years old, and wants desperately to see a list of how > people in other countries answer the phone. The following swiped from Fido's Asian_Link and reposted here for general interest about general telephone usage and customs worldwide: World Telephone Cultures {Los Angeles Times} (Jul 26) CULTURE: Arabs greet each other with profuse politeness. The French want to know who's calling. Italians have love affairs with the machine. Alexander Graham Bell spoke through a wire to his colleague Thomas Watson in 1876. "Come here," he said, the first command uttered on a telephone. Oh, what Mr. Bell wrought. Around the world, different cultures have developed characteristic phone manners since Bell's day. No people open a call with more effusive hospitality than the Arabs. Whatever the subject of the conversation, it begins with what seems like five minutes of generally meaningless but absolutely essential greetings. A ringing phone is answered: "May your morning be good." "May your morning be full of light," the caller responds. "Praise God, your voice is welcome." "Welcome, welcome." "How are you?" "Praise God." "Praise God." "What news? Are you well? Your family well?" "Praise God. How are you?" "All is well. All is well. Welcome. Welcome." Only then might the reason for the call be mentioned. And the goodbys will take almost as long and are again excruciatingly polite. Compared to the Arab world, responses elsewhere are the soul of brevity: Britons and Americans generally say "Hello," although the latter sometimes simply say "Yes," and if they're in business or the military they may just answer with their surnames: "Smith." The French answer their phones with the familiar "Allo," and they often add their name and the phrase "Qui est a l"appareil?" that is, "Who is on the phone?" In a number of countries, calls are answered with a touch of suspicion or curiosity, a reluctance to talk until it's clear who the caller is. Italians answer "Pronto," or "Ready," and then it's the caller who demands "Chi parla?"--"Who's speaking?" -- assuming the right to know the identity of the person at the other end. Germans tend to answer the phone by barking their last names: "Schmidt" or "Mueller," even the women -- and even if they have titles, like Herr Doktor, which in other circumstances hey would insist upon. In Copenhagen, Danes will answer with both first and last names, even women: "Karen Andersen." In Spain, the response to a ringing telephone is: "Diga," or "Speak." "Diga" is also a common response in Mexico, but Mexicans usually answer "Bueno," meaning "Good" or "Well." Like the Italians, the Mexicans will demand: "Where am I calling?" And if they have the wrong number, they'll indignantly hang up, sometimes with a curse, as if it were the respondent's fault. Because of a cultural tendency to speak cautiously with strangers, callers must clearly identify themselves and state their purpose. Even then, the respondent may become vague and evasive. úÿ "Is this the Mexico State Justice Department?" a caller might ask. "I wouldn't know what to tell you," is the answer. Business people and government officials commonly refuse to speak to strangers on the phone even if it concerns simple inquiries like "Where can I buy one of your vacuum cleaners?" The train system won't divulge ticket fares or schedules on the phone; you must go to the station and ask in person. In Brazil, after slowly and patiently dialing a number, if you are lucky enough to get an answer, the respondent will say: "Who's talking?" not to be rude but to make sure the right number has been reached. Goodbys are elaborate, as if in person: "A hug" is a frequent sign-off, even to end formal business calls. "A kiss" is more casual, with someone you know personally. And the response in both cases is "Outro," "Another." Like American teen-agers, many cultures have love affairs with the phone, none more than the Italians. They talk endlessly with relatives, friends and schoolmates. The telephone call has replaced formal letters of invitation, congratulations and condolences. As almost everywhere else, the cellular phone, called a telefonino in Italy, has become a popular status symbol, used widely and indiscrimin- ately. Telefonini have recently been barred from parliamentary sessions, for instance. In Germany the telephone is hardly ubiquitous. You can get an unlisted number at no extra charge, and information operators will not indicate the fact to callers -- in effect denying your existence. One wrinkle that arrived under Germany's liberal immigration policy: the installation of illegal phone booths where foreigners can call home without paying long-distance tariffs. Officials of cellular-phone networks have countered the trend by blocking all calls going to Pakistan, Togo, Gambia and Vietnam. In Russia, like most things, phone use is affected by the growing gap between rich and poor, new and old, foreign and Russian. So mobile phones are big hits among the rich, but most Russians have no phones at all. Thus ads for apartment rentals specify "telephone" with the same pride as "garbage chute" or "closet." For those with phones, the answer to a ring is the French "Allo," which can be pronounced to reflect wide degrees of happiness or annoyance. Also popular are the curt "Da," or "Yes," and "Slushayu vas," or "I am listening to you." Because of the history of KGB taps, Russians are still careful of being overheard, often using the phrase, "It's not telephone conversation," to warn a caller to be discreet. Often in Moscow an alien conversation will break into yours, and sometimes, according to Muscovites, you can't help listening. These aural glimpses show a Russian life that is never the relaxed, gossipy "reach out and touch someone" conversations so typical in America. Instead they have some urgent goal -- such as arranging a meeting or a deal. "The reason for this urgency is the poor quality," says a Moscow resident. "Pay phones are unreliable and the caller wants to get his message across before the connection breaks down." In closed Arab societies, the telephone is a means of contact for those forbidden to see each other in person. A woman will call random numbers asking for "Mohammed," and when she finds a voice she likes, will strike up a conversation. In India, you wait up to seven years for a phone -- so when the connection is finally made it often prompts a neighborhood party. The euphoria ends about a month later when the first bill arrives and the subscribers realize how much it costs. In the Indian middle-class home, the telephone occupies the place of honor, often atop its special table, and is usually kept locked to prevent neighbors from making calls. But in the countryside where 70% of Indians live, phones are still a rarity: In some cases there is not a single phone in a village. In Southeast Asia, almost everyone uses a version of "Hello" to answer the phone. Hong Kong Chinese say, "Wei." In countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia, with a shortage of phone lines and a two-year waiting list, cellular phones are prized, but expensive -- running $500 to $1,000 in Singapore and twice that elsewhere. Bangkok's most popular radio program is a call-in show with phoners talking while stuck in the city's infamous traffic. Many posh restaurants have signs saying, "No Handphones," because people are fed up with the guy at the next table shouting into a phone. Some cinemas show trailers indicating that it is rude to talk on the phone during the movie. In Japan, the person answering will customarily say, "Moshi moshi," the equivalent of "Hello," or perhaps "Hai," that is, "Yes." If he or she has the right connection, the caller may say something like "Osewa ni natte imasu," or "I am indebted to you for your kindness." Sometimes people bow over a phone, although the other party cannot see the bow. Many older Japanese, who never saw phones until the era of the 1964 Tokyo Olympics, continue to use ceremonial phrases and bows over the telephone -- as if it weren't there. The standard goodby is "Ja, mata" -- "See you later" -- with the word "Sayonara" reserved only for occasions of a long or final parting. In many Third World countries it definitely helps to know an operator. The Indian writer Khushwant Singh remembers trying to place a call from New Delhi to Lahore in neighboring Pakistan -- when services were notoriously bad. After hours of trying, Singh was contacted by the international operator who suggested that she had relatives in Pakistan who had wanted to visit India but needed visas. Being a member of Parliament, she said, he might come up with the necessary stamps. Singh accepted the deal and within three minutes his connection was through. ---------------- From: 4sam3@qlink.queensu.ca (Scott Montague) En francais, nous disons "Allo?" when answering the phone. Scott From: Kimmo Ketolainen Most Finns answer to the phone with their name. Firstname, surname or full name. Some few people say "haloo" but I haven't heard that much. Some people, mostly older people, answer by saying the phone number. Kimmo. --------------- From: Alex@Worldaccess.NL (Alex) In Holland we pick up with either "Hallo" (means hello in Dutch). Or more common is to pick up with "Met ", which basicly means With For your intrest, in Zimbabwe they tend to pick up most of the times with their number, like ... "602809 Hello?" Greetings, Alex Alex@Worldaccess.NL, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands ---------------- From: jean@xs4all.nl (Jean B Sarrazin) There is saying "Hello" and there's answering the phone. In many languages, this does not necessarily coincide ... here are a few for the languages I know: Language Hello Answer phone French Bonjour Allo Spanish Hola Digame German Guten Tag (Your last name) + Guten Tag (optional) Dutch Dag Met (first and/or last name), Goede (morgen-morning, middag, PM or avond, evening) Jean B. Sarrazin Ekkosys Communications BV Sarphatipark 24-1 1072 PB Amsterdam, The Netherlands Telephone : +31-20-676-7304 Fax : +31-20-676-9907 Compuserve : 72077,1366 Internet : jean@xs4all.nl ------------------- From: A.Meerwijk@research.ptt.nl (Arthur Meerwijk) Here in The netherlands we answer the phone with our name, so it would be something like: Good morning, this is Arthur. Although, literally tanslated I say: "Good morning, with arthur" where "with" indicates the other end is "connected _with_ arthur" But it all depends on the level of politeness you include. In any case, one alwyas says one's name when picking up a phone. The most common one being: "With Arthur Meerwijk" Cheers, arthur ---------------- From: koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl (Koos van den Hout) Of course there's the way American persons answer the phone : "Hello." (Sorry, couldn't resist. This may seem perfectly normal to an American but for someone who's used to other greetings it can be confusing.) In the Netherlands it's normal to greet with your own name. I say "Met Koos van den Hout" which does translate roughly to "This is Koos van den Hout" Companies mostly answer with a company name in the Netherlands: "Hogeschool Utrecht" ------------------ From: marya@oitunix.oit.umass.edu (Jeffrey William McKeough) Here's a few off the top of my head: Japan: moshi moshi Spain: digame Mexico: bueno Israel: shalom -------------------- From: Giray Pultar In Turkey/in Turkish, we typically answer the phone by saying 'alo'. The pronounciation is more like allo, but is spelled "alo". I believe it comes from French. Giray -------------------- From: ph18@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Paul Houle) In Japan, people answer the phone "Moshi Moshi". -------------------- From: bud@kentrox.com (Bud Couch) Can't vouch for the spelling, but the Japanese answer with "mushi-mushi", and in Korean, it's "yobosayoh". Know this because thirty years ago, I used to have to troubleshoot a US Army- US Air Force - Korean Air Defense - Japan Self-Defense Force comm net, and listen to them yell this into the phone, as if they could get loud enough to hear it from Pyongtaek to Honshu. Bud Couch - ADC Kentrox |When correctly viewed, everything is lewd.| bud@kentrox.com (192.228.59.2) | -Tom Lehrer | ---------------------- From: Dan Cromer <19016007@SBACVM.SBAC.EDU> Organization: School Board of Alachua County, Gainesville, Florida Pat, How do we answer the phone in the USA? It depends on who answers! You may hear Hello, or Yeah, or "Cromer residence, Dan speaking" (how I was brought up to answer, in a simpler time when front doors were hardly ever locked). In Japan they commonly say "moshi moshi" which can sound like "mush mush", with the words repeated rapidly. I've heard Spanish speakers use ola, pronounce Oh lah, with the accent on the Oh. Daniel H. Cromer, Jr. Director, Information Resources School Board of Alachua County, Gainesville, Florida 19016007@sbacvm.sbac.edu 904-955-7509 FAX 904-955-6700 ---------------------- From: "Van R. Hutchinson" <0005493896@mcimail.com> In Peru, my family members answer, "halo" pronounced, AL'-oh. More formal greetings include "Buenos dias" and "Buenas tardes" In Mexico, I've heard "Bueno". ---------------------- From: robhall@hk.super.net In Chinese (at least Cantonese and Mandarin dialects), telephones are answered "Wei?", which roughly translates to 'Yes?' In Japanese, the telephone is answered "Mushi Mushi". I'll be interested to see the results of your compilation! Rob Hall Hong Kong -------------------------- From: rishab@dxm.ernet.in (Rishab Aiyer Ghosh) In India almost everyone says Hello on the phone, even if they're in a village in Rajasthan and proceed to converse in Marwari. Accents and pronunciation varies. Rishab Aiyer Ghosh rishab@dxm.ernet.in rishab@arbornet.org Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks to all who participated by sending in responses. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V15 #123 ******************************